Harley Davidson Moving?
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- Senior Levergunner
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Harley Davidson Moving?
I read today that Harley Davidson is threatening to move out of Milwaukee because of labor costs. After 107 years. That would be a shame.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/In ... >1=33002
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/In ... >1=33002
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- Levergunner 3.0
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
I'm amazed they survived this long; in the 40 years i rode, i had only one Harley...XLCH...i did NOT have good luck with it.
CEO said they'd have to shave "millions" in order to stay there. they didn't say where they might relocate to, either.
CEO said they'd have to shave "millions" in order to stay there. they didn't say where they might relocate to, either.
if you think you're influencial, try telling someone else's dog what to do---will rogers
- KirkD
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Well, hopefully they don't move their production facilities to China.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Guess they should start with the CEO's salary/bonus first. Probably save a few million there to start.
The meek shall inherit the earth, but I reserve the mineral rights!
All the knowledge in the world, is of no use to fools! (Eagles-long road out of Eden)
All the knowledge in the world, is of no use to fools! (Eagles-long road out of Eden)
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
hope they move to the south....
theres a ton of riders down here
and cheaper taxes
theres a ton of riders down here
and cheaper taxes
LETS GO SHOOT'N BOYS
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Blame shifting/slight of hand. The REAL savings will come in the form of rents, taxes, and millions in subsidies that they'll woo out of prospective municipalities. Meets standard management goals to blame labor though.
Or it's a feint to drive labor concessions.
Either way it's old hat.
Oly
Or it's a feint to drive labor concessions.
Either way it's old hat.
Oly
Cheers,
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
- Old Savage
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Move out, the state is primarily democrat.
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
They have a Plant also in Kentucky or Tennessee, IIRC.
One of my Neighbors is retired from HD. I know he is concerned about the Company as his retirement is tied to the Company stock some how.
One of my Neighbors is retired from HD. I know he is concerned about the Company as his retirement is tied to the Company stock some how.
SASS# 51223
Arizona Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Cowtown Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Uberti 73/44-40 carbine, Rossi 92/44-40,
Marlin 94CB/44 24" Limited, Winchester 94/30-30
Arizona Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Cowtown Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Uberti 73/44-40 carbine, Rossi 92/44-40,
Marlin 94CB/44 24" Limited, Winchester 94/30-30
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
The two things they need are 1) a right to work state and 2) no state income taxes. That's a pretty short list.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
FLA AND TNRusty wrote:The two things they need are 1) a right to work state and 2) no state income taxes. That's a pretty short list.
LETS GO SHOOT'N BOYS
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Rest assured, they won't be going to Connecticut.
bogie
bogie
Sadly, "Political Correctness" is the most powerful religion in America, and it has ruined our society.
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- Levergunner 2.0
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- Location: San Antonio, Republic of Texas
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Rusty wrote:
The two things they need are 1) a right to work state and 2) no state income taxes. That's a pretty short list.
Rimfire replied:
FL AND TN
and I must add:
TEXAS
The two things they need are 1) a right to work state and 2) no state income taxes. That's a pretty short list.
Rimfire replied:
FL AND TN
and I must add:
TEXAS
- Streetstar
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
I cant say i'm surprised. Pretty even and good sales for a few years in the 90's and the early part of the decade, followed by the Chopper boom in from '01 - '05 or so -------- releasing multiple new models, plus swamping the marketplace with their bullcrap ---spending like there is no tomorrow
I was recently in Baltimore --- i guess HArley officially was dead to me when i stopped in to get a souvenir t-shirt for my wife at a local stealership.
----------- $35.00 for a screen printed Hanes pocket - T !!!!!!!!
Then i thought -- "I am glad i sold my Harley --- i am not supporting the d-a brigade anymore "
Photo of the nearly departed, and yep, i'd rather have a sack full of leverguns than this dip stick detuned dirt tracker on ambien
this bike was great for riding to the local Hooters or Joe's Crab Shack for their "Bike Nights" ------ (which if your single -- the cougar chicks abound at these places wearing cool H-D attire straight from the catalog -- thats a bonus? ) .
If you dont drink beer, you kind of sit around thinking "what am i doing hanging around these no-life social retards?? I have old trucks and leverguns that deserve my attention more !"
Harley did this to themselves
I was recently in Baltimore --- i guess HArley officially was dead to me when i stopped in to get a souvenir t-shirt for my wife at a local stealership.
----------- $35.00 for a screen printed Hanes pocket - T !!!!!!!!
Then i thought -- "I am glad i sold my Harley --- i am not supporting the d-a brigade anymore "
Photo of the nearly departed, and yep, i'd rather have a sack full of leverguns than this dip stick detuned dirt tracker on ambien
this bike was great for riding to the local Hooters or Joe's Crab Shack for their "Bike Nights" ------ (which if your single -- the cougar chicks abound at these places wearing cool H-D attire straight from the catalog -- thats a bonus? ) .
If you dont drink beer, you kind of sit around thinking "what am i doing hanging around these no-life social retards?? I have old trucks and leverguns that deserve my attention more !"
Harley did this to themselves
Last edited by Streetstar on Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
----- Doug
- Old Time Hunter
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
They would not have to move anything if they just cut the top five "new" executive staff salaries down to a couple of million each. Since Harley buckled and brought a "Wall Streeter" named Keith Wandell in as CEO, Harley has basically said to it's customer core that "we don't want you". If Harley moves from their "birthplace", it will kill whatever "mystique" is left and become just another "acme manufacturing" product. Even with all of Harley's short comings and misunderstandings, the product desirablity is more empirical than warranted based on technological advances or "cheaper" price. If they move, it will destroy the whole meaning of "Harley-Davidson", might as well be a rice burner...and become a socialist, 'cause it will not be America anymore. That idiot Wandell shows up at a H.O.G meeting in a suit, if I could've gotten close to him I would've slapped him silly and handed him a skirt.
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
You're right, Old Time Hunter. Harley-Davidson needed help when AMF had
them - they actually needed to make a reliable motorbike at that time instead
of a piece of garbage. They improved EVERYTHING - came out with the Evolution
motor, improved reliablility, fit and finish, and generally saved the company.
Then they decided that making money was more important than making American
motorcycles. Now their bikes are headed towards being expensive styling
accessories instead of real motorcycles. A lot of the Harley-Davidson "merchandise"
is over-priced made-in-China stuff. Those macho "motor clothes" are just (way!)
overpriced Chinese goods with a Harley label. The current crop of machines
from H-D fall into one or two market niches and that's it. The company has
devolved into mostly a marketing and style organization. That's unfortunate,
and probably unsustainable in the current marketplace.
For awhile, Harley could charge whatever they wanted to, but those days are
numbered as we enter the new economic reality. They're not gonna sell all of the
$30K+ fashion accessories they can make anymore, and they're not gonna be able
to afford to pay the kind of wages the workers are used to. They'll have to drop
their prices to stay competitive with other motorcycle companies. There are A LOT of
very competent, very well-made motorbikes out there to choose from at prices that are
MUCH more reasonable than Harley-Davidson's.
-Stretch
them - they actually needed to make a reliable motorbike at that time instead
of a piece of garbage. They improved EVERYTHING - came out with the Evolution
motor, improved reliablility, fit and finish, and generally saved the company.
Then they decided that making money was more important than making American
motorcycles. Now their bikes are headed towards being expensive styling
accessories instead of real motorcycles. A lot of the Harley-Davidson "merchandise"
is over-priced made-in-China stuff. Those macho "motor clothes" are just (way!)
overpriced Chinese goods with a Harley label. The current crop of machines
from H-D fall into one or two market niches and that's it. The company has
devolved into mostly a marketing and style organization. That's unfortunate,
and probably unsustainable in the current marketplace.
For awhile, Harley could charge whatever they wanted to, but those days are
numbered as we enter the new economic reality. They're not gonna sell all of the
$30K+ fashion accessories they can make anymore, and they're not gonna be able
to afford to pay the kind of wages the workers are used to. They'll have to drop
their prices to stay competitive with other motorcycle companies. There are A LOT of
very competent, very well-made motorbikes out there to choose from at prices that are
MUCH more reasonable than Harley-Davidson's.
-Stretch
- Old Time Hunter
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
But they are NOT HARLEY'S and if you compare an H-D to any other "motorbike", you're missing the point of having a Harley. You can buy a Chinese made US flag that is bigger and maybe equal in quality than a USA made flag, but do you really want to be associated with it...AT ANY COST? A Harley not having it's roots in Milwaukee, at what ever the price (do you really think that Wandell is going to lower the MSRP?...hey, I've got this bridge), is the same as being proud of your Chinese made US flag.There are A LOT of
very competent, very well-made motorbikes out there to choose from at prices that are
MUCH more reasonable than Harley-Davidson's.
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Is "A Harley" with Japanese suspension, other outsourced
ovreseas parts ridden by a guy wearing Chinese-made leathers
still "A Harley"?
Harley-Davidson has already, in my opinion, whored themselves
to Wall Street by selling the imported Chinese stuff with their
label on it. About the only thing left that's still made in the USA
is the actual motorbike, and some of that is even brought in from
overseas vendors.
Moving out of Milwaukee is just the last straw.
I've owned and ridden bikes for something like 34 years.
Didn't own a car until I was 24 or so. I still ride to work
over half the time on a bike - in Maine. I've never owned
a Harley, and probably never will. I almost bought a used
Road King 4 or 5 years ago, because it was in very good shape
and I knew the guy who owned it. (The mailman beat me
to it!) It's a competent touring rig, though certainly not
state-of-the-art. Worth $25K brandy-new?
Only if paying lots of money for the Harley-Davidson name is
important. For that money, I could have a Triumph Rocket 3
Touring and a lot of change left over, for instance.
-Stretch
ovreseas parts ridden by a guy wearing Chinese-made leathers
still "A Harley"?
Harley-Davidson has already, in my opinion, whored themselves
to Wall Street by selling the imported Chinese stuff with their
label on it. About the only thing left that's still made in the USA
is the actual motorbike, and some of that is even brought in from
overseas vendors.
Moving out of Milwaukee is just the last straw.
I've owned and ridden bikes for something like 34 years.
Didn't own a car until I was 24 or so. I still ride to work
over half the time on a bike - in Maine. I've never owned
a Harley, and probably never will. I almost bought a used
Road King 4 or 5 years ago, because it was in very good shape
and I knew the guy who owned it. (The mailman beat me
to it!) It's a competent touring rig, though certainly not
state-of-the-art. Worth $25K brandy-new?
Only if paying lots of money for the Harley-Davidson name is
important. For that money, I could have a Triumph Rocket 3
Touring and a lot of change left over, for instance.
-Stretch
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
A sign of the times. I don't think they will ever be made in China. I just can't picture a Chinaman on a Harley. In fact I have never seen an ornamental on a Harley. That would be like a Republican driving a Subaru, a crime against nature.
Wasn't the Rocket Three a BSA and the Triumph triple was a Trident?
Wasn't the Rocket Three a BSA and the Triumph triple was a Trident?
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Labor COST ................................Here We go again. I would Love to see what the top Ex's at Harley make. We can't afford to pay the worker. same old same old. Why don't they sell to Wallmart. they can make Harleys in China and under the logo "WE SELL FOR LESS" it can say "HARLEYS TOO". It's always the worker bending over.
- Old Time Hunter
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Stretch, I'll have to beg to differ with you as, I can guarantee you with your life that there is not a Japanese suspension on any currently made Harley-Davidson as I personally know directors of engineering specifically on suspensions, one is Steve Wentworth (V-Rod and Softtail) and the other is Rob Crane (Dyna & Glides). Maybe some of the parts are off shored, but not any of the chassis, engines, or sub assemblies.Is "A Harley" with Japanese suspension, other outsourced
ovreseas parts ridden by a guy wearing Chinese-made leathers
still "A Harley"?
This is where you miss the point, cause if your only goal is to have a bike, any bike, for the least amount of $$$, then you do not want a real Harley. I'm not picking on you, just that you miss the motivation behind the mystique. Currently I have over 5k of Harley shares and I would rather see them drop to worthless than destroying the very reason they became successful, especially since they brought themselves home once before.Only if paying lots of money for the Harley-Davidson name is
important. For that money, I could have a Triumph Rocket 3
Touring and a lot of change left over, for instance.
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- Levergunner 3.0
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
it's odd, but i got my first motorcycle in 1959, a surplus army Indian...up to 2000 it was British, Italian, Japanese and ending up for last number of years on BMW's. had only one Harley; never wanted another. they simply do not appeal to me.
after i was severely injured, i hung it up after 41 years. i still get the "hankering" though.
i knew people that were instrumental in developing systems for Harley to help improve them such as john hoy, who was my roommate at one time, who helped develop a brake system (that they had incorporated onto the Cerani forks of the day) and Dan rubesh who helped develop/improve the intake system. john, some of you older riders may recall, was a national flatrack champion rider for triumph until he went into the wall at the Sacramento mile. they were great strides for Harley, but hardly enough to guarantee it's survival and prosperity.
all you have to do is to price a Harley and it's obvious to see why their clothing, apparel and accessories are all that keep them going.
and yes, i would rather have another BMW if i were to ever swing a leg over one again.
to each his own...
after i was severely injured, i hung it up after 41 years. i still get the "hankering" though.
i knew people that were instrumental in developing systems for Harley to help improve them such as john hoy, who was my roommate at one time, who helped develop a brake system (that they had incorporated onto the Cerani forks of the day) and Dan rubesh who helped develop/improve the intake system. john, some of you older riders may recall, was a national flatrack champion rider for triumph until he went into the wall at the Sacramento mile. they were great strides for Harley, but hardly enough to guarantee it's survival and prosperity.
all you have to do is to price a Harley and it's obvious to see why their clothing, apparel and accessories are all that keep them going.
and yes, i would rather have another BMW if i were to ever swing a leg over one again.
to each his own...
if you think you're influencial, try telling someone else's dog what to do---will rogers
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
I've thought about getting another bike from time to time. the last one I had I got rid of a Honda 750 in 1976. If I were ever to get another one I think it would be a BMW. The KZ650 kind of interests me but I want something more stable than that.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Actually, I think if buying a bike for the the least amount of $$$ is the goal, theThis is where you miss the point, cause if your only goal is to have a bike, any bike, for the least amount of $$$, then you do not want a real Harley. I'm not picking on you, just that you miss the motivation behind the mystique. Currently I have over 5k of Harley shares and I would rather see them drop to worthless than destroying the very reason they became successful, especially since they brought themselves home once before.
Japanese stuff represents far and away the best bang for the buck. But you said
it best - you're buying a "mystique" with Harley-Davidson. Whether or not
you're buying a competent motorbike is another question altogether. The "mystique"
these days is pretty hollow, and very expensive.
Harley is all about marketing some perceived bad-boy, tough guy lifestyle, the
"cruiser" market, and a very small segment of the touring market. That's okay -
I have no problem with that. But the bikes are overpriced, and when that leisure
market shrinks, as it must in this economy, H-D is gonna be up against it. They
didn't invest in other markets, like the sporting market with Buell, because there
was more short-term cash to be made selling a style. Unfortunately, the boys
and girls working in the Milwaukee plant are going to pay the price for those sorts
of decisions. As I said before - H-D isn't as much about making motorcycles these
days as it is about making money for shareholders - and the results of those business
decisions are the obscene salaries for the Wall Street types running the show now, and
the laid-off workers in PA, and maybe now in Milwaukee.
I could never see the point of spending ridiculous sums on some sort of "style"
or "mystique". Didn't get it then, and I don't now. I've always preferred to
ride something I liked. If that turns out to be H-D, fine. But there are lots
of other choices these days.
Triumph now makes the Rocket 3. It's a HUGE machine with a 2.3 liter inline
triple (Yes, two-point-three!) Triumph had a demo weekend up this way over the 4th of
July. Twenty-some-odd bikes -ride whatever you want! Man, that WAS fun.....
Dave, back in the day BSA made the original Rocket 3, and Triumph made basically the
same machine called the Trident.
-Stretch
- Old Ironsights
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
I'm sure thye could EASILY find a location in the US that would tax them a LOT less than the idiots in Mad-city...Old Savage wrote:Move out, the state is primarily democrat.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
- Streetstar
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 3924
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:58 am
- Location: from what used to be Moore OK
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Old Time Hunter wrote:But they are NOT HARLEY'S and if you compare an H-D to any other "motorbike", you're missing the point of having a Harley. .There are A LOT of
very competent, very well-made motorbikes out there to choose from at prices that are
MUCH more reasonable than Harley-Davidson's.
The point he may or may not be missing is H-D suffers the same sort of bloated thinking that got the domestic automakers into trouble. When the newer riders realize that their Harley does not have the performance of its competition, is heavier, made with inferior materials, is under-powered and has frame weld quality that a 12 year old in shop class would be ashamed of, they will be more reluctant to putchase another.
You can't charge 10k more for an inferior machine forever and expect it to work long term (although it has been working for a decade or so). The Sporty i had was my second H-D, 1st was a '00 FatBoy (one of the first fuelies) . All i can say is , "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
If i tip toe through the street bike market again, my money will probably go to KTM. (admittedly a different market than H-D's, closer to Buell's) --- their bikes are put together by people who care about quality workmanship, not just about rolling out "Anniversary" models every 5 years with new chrome packages like thats a big deal
----- Doug
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
I just wish someone would start making a good, old-fashioned mid-frame bike again like a reasonably priced Triumph Scrambler (not the $10K variant) or the old CB or KZ series from the 70s/80s.
I really dislike riding BOTH crotch-rockets AND cruisers...
A modestly sprung (for light offroad) mid-frame 400-750 would make a GREAT commuter/daily driver...
I really dislike riding BOTH crotch-rockets AND cruisers...
A modestly sprung (for light offroad) mid-frame 400-750 would make a GREAT commuter/daily driver...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
OI, you got me thinking about my Suzuki 400L I had in '79. What a nice, light, responsive, fun, little machine! Of course, it wasn't for crossing the country but, my girl and I did take a 400 mile road trip to Florida once. My Honda VT1100T makes those kind of trips much easier!
JDL
JDL
- Old Ironsights
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Big vehicles = big trips... you wouldn't want to commute in your Winnabago...JDL wrote:OI, you got me thinking about my Suzuki 400L I had in '79. What a nice, light, responsive, fun, little machine! Of course, it wasn't for crossing the country but, my girl and I did take a 400 mile road trip to Florida once. My Honda VT1100T makes those kind of trips much easier!
JDL
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Wandell makes 1.43 million per year, and took options on another 1.4 million this year. Last year Wandell took options on about 2.4 million..45colt wrote:Labor COST ................................Here We go again. I would Love to see what the top Ex's at Harley make. We can't afford to pay the worker. same old same old. Why don't they sell to Wallmart. they can make Harleys in China and under the logo "WE SELL FOR LESS" it can say "HARLEYS TOO". It's always the worker bending over.
CFO John Olin makes 297K per year, and President Matthew S. Levatich makes 420K.
Not really extravagant salaries by corporate standards. Another reason IMO that Harley's in trouble is because EVERYONE now has a Harley. I see more Harleys on the road than any other motorcycle. Because of the impression that they are now a cookie cutter bike like everyone rides, people are starting to shift away from them and go to other makes.
Ed
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
I read an article a while ago about Harleys in Japan. Full dressed hogs are a big deal there...BwanaDave wrote:A sign of the times. I don't think they will ever be made in China. I just can't picture a Chinaman on a Harley. In fact I have never seen an ornamental on a Harley. That would be like a Republican driving a Subaru, a crime against nature.
Wasn't the Rocket Three a BSA and the Triumph triple was a Trident?
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
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- Levergunner 2.0
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
know what the differance between a Harley and a hoover is ? the position of the dirt bag I love both my harley's 91 1200 sporty and a 2001 roadking, but for true fun I break out my 76 yamaha RD400, just gotta love showing them young punks what a small 2 stroke can do from stop light to stop light, now if I can just find a kawasaki 750 triple 2-stroke <widow maker > that I can afford!! I would be in heaven, other then the 750 triple theres only 1 other bike I want to add too my small collection and that is a harley Davidson Hummer, either a 165 or 175 2- stroke, my dad has 1 and it was the very 1st street bike I ever rode, I can still talk him into a ride every now and again, and it sure brings back memories of being 12 and blazing along the country roads at a top speed of around 55 mph
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Old Time Hunter,Old Time Hunter wrote:Stretch, I'll have to beg to differ with you as, I can guarantee you with your life that there is not a Japanese suspension on any currently made Harley-Davidson as I personally know directors of engineering specifically on suspensions, one is Steve Wentworth (V-Rod and Softtail) and the other is Rob Crane (Dyna & Glides). Maybe some of the parts are off shored, but not any of the chassis, engines, or sub assemblies.Is "A Harley" with Japanese suspension, other outsourced
ovreseas parts ridden by a guy wearing Chinese-made leathers
still "A Harley"?
This is where you miss the point, cause if your only goal is to have a bike, any bike, for the least amount of $$$, then you do not want a real Harley. I'm not picking on you, just that you miss the motivation behind the mystique. Currently I have over 5k of Harley shares and I would rather see them drop to worthless than destroying the very reason they became successful, especially since they brought themselves home once before.Only if paying lots of money for the Harley-Davidson name is
important. For that money, I could have a Triumph Rocket 3
Touring and a lot of change left over, for instance.
you just killed Stretch. HD's have had Jap suspension since the early '70's when they started using Kayaba components. by the mid and later '70's they started using Showa coponents exclusively and still do today. Showa is made in Japan and is owned by Honda.
- Old Time Hunter
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Yes, they are Showa forks, produced in Ohio...check it out.457121 wrote:Old Time Hunter,Old Time Hunter wrote:Stretch, I'll have to beg to differ with you as, I can guarantee you with your life that there is not a Japanese suspension on any currently made Harley-Davidson as I personally know directors of engineering specifically on suspensions, one is Steve Wentworth (V-Rod and Softtail) and the other is Rob Crane (Dyna & Glides). Maybe some of the parts are off shored, but not any of the chassis, engines, or sub assemblies.Is "A Harley" with Japanese suspension, other outsourced
ovreseas parts ridden by a guy wearing Chinese-made leathers
still "A Harley"?
This is where you miss the point, cause if your only goal is to have a bike, any bike, for the least amount of $$$, then you do not want a real Harley. I'm not picking on you, just that you miss the motivation behind the mystique. Currently I have over 5k of Harley shares and I would rather see them drop to worthless than destroying the very reason they became successful, especially since they brought themselves home once before.Only if paying lots of money for the Harley-Davidson name is
important. For that money, I could have a Triumph Rocket 3
Touring and a lot of change left over, for instance.
you just killed Stretch. HD's have had Jap suspension since the early '70's when they started using Kayaba components. by the mid and later '70's they started using Showa coponents exclusively and still do today. Showa is made in Japan and is owned by Honda.
- Streetstar
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Old Time Hunter wrote:[]
Yes, they are Showa forks, produced in Ohio...check it out.
now we're splittin hairs, but thats a little like saying that a Nissan Titan is a domestic truck because its made in Smyrna, TN.
----- Doug
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
Nah 457121, I'm still here.Old Time Hunter, you just killed Stretch.
It'll take more than a Harley guy to kill me.....
(Here we go boys, now the fun'll start.... )
I think that's a serious problem among upper management at H-D now.The point he may or may not be missing is H-D suffers the same sort of bloated thinking that got the domestic automakers into trouble.
Seriously, though - I'd LOVE to be proven wrong and see H-D soldier on,
but as a REAL motorcycle company instead of a money-grubbing Wall Street
marketing creation. I do not see them thriving long-term on their current path.
We motorcyclists are, by and large a conservative lot when talking about
radical change in motorbikes - and H-D can thank it's lucky stars that we are!
It's been a LONG time since H-D was an innovator in anything but styling - and
most of that is just nostalgia in different color combinations.
-Stretch
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
And then there's OCC.
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
"The point he may or may not be missing is H-D suffers the same sort of bloated thinking that got the domestic automakers into trouble. When the newer riders realize that their Harley does not have the performance of its competition, is heavier, made with inferior materials, is under-powered and has frame weld quality that a 12 year old in shop class would be ashamed of, they will be more reluctant to putchase another.
--StreetStar
Sounds a great deal like what I heard H-D riders/former riders say 20 years ago....
--StreetStar
Sounds a great deal like what I heard H-D riders/former riders say 20 years ago....
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
most harley owners have to own two or three just to keep one running from using parts from the others...
the XLCH was without doubt, the worse motorcyle i ever came into contact with...
i rode many, many COMFORTABLE, CAREFREE miles on suzuki, kawasaki, yamaha and the most comfortable and carefree was the BMW's...
the whole problem is not whether it's "american made" or not...the problem is...it's not the machine for me. it's too LOUD, (and if not loud enough already, many riders think it's "cool" to put louder exhaust pipes on them; a neighbor has/had a sportster with straight exhaust and used to start it at 0500 every morning to ride to work on and wake up the whole neighborhood) vibration is off the scale, everything on it looks like a dysfunctional, mechanical, mismatch of parts...
again...i'm in awe that it has survived in veiw of the technolgy of todays motorcycles. probably the best (only?) inovation it came up with in it's history, is the drive belt.
the XLCH was without doubt, the worse motorcyle i ever came into contact with...
i rode many, many COMFORTABLE, CAREFREE miles on suzuki, kawasaki, yamaha and the most comfortable and carefree was the BMW's...
the whole problem is not whether it's "american made" or not...the problem is...it's not the machine for me. it's too LOUD, (and if not loud enough already, many riders think it's "cool" to put louder exhaust pipes on them; a neighbor has/had a sportster with straight exhaust and used to start it at 0500 every morning to ride to work on and wake up the whole neighborhood) vibration is off the scale, everything on it looks like a dysfunctional, mechanical, mismatch of parts...
again...i'm in awe that it has survived in veiw of the technolgy of todays motorcycles. probably the best (only?) inovation it came up with in it's history, is the drive belt.
if you think you're influencial, try telling someone else's dog what to do---will rogers
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
I agree with the noise level thing. It makes me want to toss my cookies every time I see a sticker or a patch that says "loud pipes save lives."
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
when i was at work yesterday i pulled the front fork parts off the shelf for an '08 Dyna wreck job in the shop. every single one said "made in Japan" at the bottom of the HD parts label. if by "produced in Ohio" you mean all Jap parts assembled by Americans at the Honda facility in Marysville well i guess your friends at HD are using a little creative licence. the same creative licence that Honda used on it's Shadow line of V twins where on the back of seat was printed "made in USA".Streetstar wrote:Old Time Hunter wrote:[]
Yes, they are Showa forks, produced in Ohio...check it out.
now we're splittin hairs, but thats a little like saying that a Nissan Titan is a domestic truck because its made in Smyrna, TN.
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
I read an article back in the late nineties about Harley's demand would be dropping off by the early 2000's. It was because baby boomers were the main purchasers and by that time the ones that wanted Harleys would have bought one. Harley doesn't have the appeal to younger generations that grew up learning to ride on Hondas ,Yamahas , and other Jap brands. Thus there market share has been dropping off for a while.
I stayed away from Harleys because my friends had them and yes they broke alot. Today that isn't the case. With the new twin cam engine you are getting your money worth.
Also Polaris is shutting down their WI plant and moving it to Mexico. But that's ATV's .
I stayed away from Harleys because my friends had them and yes they broke alot. Today that isn't the case. With the new twin cam engine you are getting your money worth.
Also Polaris is shutting down their WI plant and moving it to Mexico. But that's ATV's .
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
You mean like this? Can't speak for the Shadows, but with some of their Marysville production they also put it on the VIN plate and engine block. Maybe I'm mistaken, but my understanding was that there was a minimum % of made in USA parts legally required before stating "Made in USA" on the VIN:457121 wrote:when i was at work yesterday i pulled the front fork parts off the shelf for an '08 Dyna wreck job in the shop. every single one said "made in Japan" at the bottom of the HD parts label. if by "produced in Ohio" you mean all Jap parts assembled by Americans at the Honda facility in Marysville well i guess your friends at HD are using a little creative licence. the same creative licence that Honda used on it's Shadow line of V twins where on the back of seat was printed "made in USA".Streetstar wrote:Old Time Hunter wrote:[]
Yes, they are Showa forks, produced in Ohio...check it out.
now we're splittin hairs, but thats a little like saying that a Nissan Titan is a domestic truck because its made in Smyrna, TN.
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Molasses
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- Old Ironsights
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Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
My 1975 Kawasaki KZ400 was made in Lincoln NE... one of the first Jap Plants (for any product) in the US.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
Re: Harley Davidson Moving?
that's the one Molasses. and you are correct that there are a certain % of parts that must come from the country in question before they can say made in that country. any Honda with the "1HF" at the beginning of the VIN was produced in Ohio. Old Ironsights is also correct about the Kaw Nebraska plant being the first Jap mtorcycle assembly plant in the USA, both manufacturers have moved all USA motorcycle production back to Japan. Honda still has the atv plant in South Carolina. i doubt HD will move from Milwaukee. they are not exactly flush with cash right now. back in '01-'02 HD began to hear from their dealers that production had caught up with demand and the showrooms were full. HD wanted to keep increasing total unit production but the buyers were not there. so HD credit relaxed the requirements to qualify for a bike loan. sound familiar? from '03-'08 fully 2/3'rds of the HD models sold were financed through HD credit. when the economy tanked HD credit was up to it's neck in defaulting accounts. profits dropped 91%! HD got in line behind GM and Chrysler wanting a bailout but our Gov't declined. they finally got a $600 million cash infusion from private investors. they closed and consolidated parts wharehouses and distribution centers, laid off 2500 workers, sold MV Augusta, and shut down Buell. i don't see the motorcycle market recovering even somewhat for at least 2-3 more years.