Hand load BOOOO! Federal Fusion YEAH!!!

[336A]

Yup went to the range again with my 336A to get her dialed for the upcoming season. Tried out some more of my hand loads and they were pathetic. They were inconsistent and all over the place, there was a lot of good advice here the last time I posted about this to include possible scope issues. Here are some pics from today showing the Fed Fusion and my reload. Now before I show the pics I want you all to know up front that I'm not after bug hole groups from this rifle. I want consistency and repeatability sure small groups are nice but I would settle for 1.5" at 100yd and don't feel that is out of the question. The rifle is scoped with a Bushnell Elite 3200 2-7x32 in weaver rings and base, all shooting done on 7x and 100yd. With results like this I'm not so sure it is even worth reloading for this rifle anymore. here are the pics.

The first group of Fed Fusion 150gr before any scope adjustments. Soory about the blurry pic fellas.


The second group opps went .5" to far.


Here is the final group


Hand load looks like this, this time it made a nice triangle. A lot of times I get vertical stringing and POI shifts


So once again the Federal Fusion will be putting the meat in the freezer this year.

[missionary5155]

Well at least you know...
#1 You can shoot the rifle
#2 The rifle can group
#3 All you need to do is duplicate what that factory round is.

[J Miller]

336A,

Well, you've eliminated two of the three variables. Yourself and the rifle. You know your ammo needs more work. Use the factory ammo to get meat this season and work on your hand loads in the future.
When I started hand loading I did what missionary5155 said, I worked to duplicate the factory ammo that worked the best for me. That seemed to be the ticket and it still works.

Vertical stringing seems to me to be a symptom of inconsistency. Either with the primer depth, powder charge, the crimp, the COAL, neck tension or something. At any rate, that's where I'd start looking.

Joe

[336A]

336A,

Well, you've eliminated two of the three variables. Yourself and the rifle. You know your ammo needs more work. Use the factory ammo to get meat this season and work on your hand loads in the future.
When I started hand loading I did what missionary5155 said, I worked to duplicate the factory ammo that worked the best for me. That seemed to be the ticket and it still works.

Vertical stringing seems to me to be a symptom of inconsistency. Either with the primer depth, powder charge, the crimp, the COAL, neck tension or something. At any rate, that's where I'd start looking.

Joe

I've got a crazy notion that it may be the neck tension. How do you go about ensuring that it is the same on of the brass?

[TedH]

It could be partially caused by inconsistent neck tension. Make sure you use new or once fired brass so be sure it has proper elasticity. Make sure your expander plug is the proper size. A good firm crimp with either a Lee FCD or a regular old roll crimp will help too.

[J Miller]

336A,

Well, you've eliminated two of the three variables. Yourself and the rifle. You know your ammo needs more work. Use the factory ammo to get meat this season and work on your hand loads in the future.
When I started hand loading I did what missionary5155 said, I worked to duplicate the factory ammo that worked the best for me. That seemed to be the ticket and it still works.

Vertical stringing seems to me to be a symptom of inconsistency. Either with the primer depth, powder charge, the crimp, the COAL, neck tension or something. At any rate, that's where I'd start looking.

Joe

I've got a crazy notion that it may be the neck tension. How do you go about ensuring that it is the same on of the brass?

Well, the first thing I do is tumble the brass. This gets the carbon and other deposits out of the cases. Then I full size them and after that I trim them all to the same length.

I full size my lever gun ammo because:
A> lever guns do not have the camming power of bolt guns and I don't want to have any chambering problems when I'm shooting.
B> I have two guns of the same caliber and I don't want to segregate my ammo.

Pull the expander out of your die and measure it. It should be smaller than bullet diameter. RCBS told me .307" I think. They even sent me a couple extra ones one time. I can measure them if you want.
If the expander is the same size as your bullets I don't think you'll get enough neck tension even when the brass springs back a bit.

After the cases are tumbled, sized, trimmed, I prime them. I use two methods: my Lee Auto Prime or the ram prime built into the top of my Bonanza Co-Ax. Due to nerve damage my right hand has lost a lot of it's sensitivity so I've been using the press primer a lot. It does wonders for seating the primers to a consistent below flush depth.

Depending on the powder I'm using I'll either throw the charges short and trickle weigh them ( extruded powders ) or set the powder measure and just throw them (ball powders).

The bullet is seated very carefully. I don't have any fancy match grade dies, so I seat the bullet on the case mouth and then guide it with my fingers as far as I can as I raise the ram. My Co-Ax press has seated the bullets straighter than my RCBS RockChucker press ever did.

Then depending on my mood and the bullet I'll either crimp them with the seater die or my Lee FCD.

This is pretty much what I do. I've got old and new and in between brass and I treat it all the same. Once trimmed I rarely ever have to trim it again.
When I'm loading for accuracy I do try to keep the case heads the same and the load numbers the same as well.

Hope I wasn't too wordy.

Joe

[KirkD]

I've got a crazy notion that it may be the neck tension. How do you go about ensuring that it is the same on of the brass?

It could be. A Lee FCD should give you consistent crimping. I have several, although none for my 30-30, and those crimps pretty well look uniform to me. Roll crimps can vary due to slightly different neck lengths. I find I have to trim my 30-30 brass so that the neck mouth is straight across. Sometimes, one side of the neck stretches more than the other side, giving a canted neck mouth. I trim that straight.

[336A]

336A,

Well, you've eliminated two of the three variables. Yourself and the rifle. You know your ammo needs more work. Use the factory ammo to get meat this season and work on your hand loads in the future.
When I started hand loading I did what missionary5155 said, I worked to duplicate the factory ammo that worked the best for me. That seemed to be the ticket and it still works.

Vertical stringing seems to me to be a symptom of inconsistency. Either with the primer depth, powder charge, the crimp, the COAL, neck tension or something. At any rate, that's where I'd start looking.

Joe

I've got a crazy notion that it may be the neck tension. How do you go about ensuring that it is the same on of the brass?

Well, the first thing I do is tumble the brass. This gets the carbon and other deposits out of the cases. Then I full size them and after that I trim them all to the same length.

I full size my lever gun ammo because:
A> lever guns do not have the camming power of bolt guns and I don't want to have any chambering problems when I'm shooting.
B> I have two guns of the same caliber and I don't want to segregate my ammo.

Pull the expander out of your die and measure it. It should be smaller than bullet diameter. RCBS told me .307" I think. They even sent me a couple extra ones one time. I can measure them if you want.
If the expander is the same size as your bullets I don't think you'll get enough neck tension even when the brass springs back a bit.

After the cases are tumbled, sized, trimmed, I prime them. I use two methods: my Lee Auto Prime or the ram prime built into the top of my Bonanza Co-Ax. Due to nerve damage my right hand has lost a lot of it's sensitivity so I've been using the press primer a lot. It does wonders for seating the primers to a consistent below flush depth.

Depending on the powder I'm using I'll either throw the charges short and trickle weigh them ( extruded powders ) or set the powder measure and just throw them (ball powders).

The bullet is seated very carefully. I don't have any fancy match grade dies, so I seat the bullet on the case mouth and then guide it with my fingers as far as I can as I raise the ram. My Co-Ax press has seated the bullets straighter than my RCBS RockChucker press ever did.

Then depending on my mood and the bullet I'll either crimp them with the seater die or my Lee FCD.

This is pretty much what I do. I've got old and new and in between brass and I treat it all the same. Once trimmed I rarely ever have to trim it again.
When I'm loading for accuracy I do try to keep the case heads the same and the load numbers the same as well.

Hope I wasn't too wordy.

Joe

Not to wordy at all Joe. I went through your laundry list and started thinking to myseld. The first thing that I checked was the length of some of the brass I set my loads up in. What do you know I found some brass that was way short of minimum trim length. I could have sworn that I set that danged blasted trimer up correctly As I went down your list I noticed that my loading techniques are a carbon copy of yours
Yeah I still prime my brass on the prerss too.

I'm really hoping that some of the brass being to short is the basis for the problem that I'm having. Thanks again guys.

[J Miller]

336A,

Well, you've eliminated two of the three variables. Yourself and the rifle. You know your ammo needs more work. Use the factory ammo to get meat this season and work on your hand loads in the future.
When I started hand loading I did what missionary5155 said, I worked to duplicate the factory ammo that worked the best for me. That seemed to be the ticket and it still works.

Vertical stringing seems to me to be a symptom of inconsistency. Either with the primer depth, powder charge, the crimp, the COAL, neck tension or something. At any rate, that's where I'd start looking.

Joe

I've got a crazy notion that it may be the neck tension. How do you go about ensuring that it is the same on of the brass?

Well, the first thing I do is tumble the brass. This gets the carbon and other deposits out of the cases. Then I full size them and after that I trim them all to the same length.

I full size my lever gun ammo because:
A> lever guns do not have the camming power of bolt guns and I don't want to have any chambering problems when I'm shooting.
B> I have two guns of the same caliber and I don't want to segregate my ammo.

Pull the expander out of your die and measure it. It should be smaller than bullet diameter. RCBS told me .307" I think. They even sent me a couple extra ones one time. I can measure them if you want.
If the expander is the same size as your bullets I don't think you'll get enough neck tension even when the brass springs back a bit.

After the cases are tumbled, sized, trimmed, I prime them. I use two methods: my Lee Auto Prime or the ram prime built into the top of my Bonanza Co-Ax. Due to nerve damage my right hand has lost a lot of it's sensitivity so I've been using the press primer a lot. It does wonders for seating the primers to a consistent below flush depth.

Depending on the powder I'm using I'll either throw the charges short and trickle weigh them ( extruded powders ) or set the powder measure and just throw them (ball powders).

The bullet is seated very carefully. I don't have any fancy match grade dies, so I seat the bullet on the case mouth and then guide it with my fingers as far as I can as I raise the ram. My Co-Ax press has seated the bullets straighter than my RCBS RockChucker press ever did.

Then depending on my mood and the bullet I'll either crimp them with the seater die or my Lee FCD.

This is pretty much what I do. I've got old and new and in between brass and I treat it all the same. Once trimmed I rarely ever have to trim it again.
When I'm loading for accuracy I do try to keep the case heads the same and the load numbers the same as well.

Hope I wasn't too wordy.

Joe

Not to wordy at all Joe. I went through your laundry list and started thinking to myseld. The first thing that I checked was the length of some of the brass I set my loads up in. What do you know I found some brass that was way short of minimum trim length. I could have sworn that I set that danged blasted trimer up correctly As I went down your list I noticed that my loading techniques are a carbon copy of yours
Yeah I still prime my brass on the prerss too.

I'm really hoping that some of the brass being to short is the basis for the problem that I'm having. Thanks again guys.

336A,
I have a thread on here from just a week or so ago about my troubles getting my Forster trimmer to trim consistently. I'm not sure it's right yet.
So I know what you mean by thinking you had the trimmer right, then finding cases that are too short.

Joe

[Dave]

Loading is good since as long as you have your components you can't run out of ammo. If you want to go hunting you can always press out a handful of rounds and go even if the stores are closed. It looks like you should just buy a case of that Fusion ammo for now. I am a one load guy and have had great luck with 33.0 of Varget under the Sierra ProHunter 170 grainer in every 30-30 I have tried it in. Just a thought.

[deerwhacker444]

And when all is said and done,...there's nothing wrong with shooting factory ammo. Sometimes that is the correct solution..!

[336A]

And when all is said and done,...there's nothing wrong with shooting factory ammo. Sometimes that is the correct solution..!

Very true Deerwhacker. I've been using this ammo ever since it has come out, not due to it being a bonded core bullet but because of the accuracy. They are a tough bullet though, and I figure that I've tested them to the limit in actual hunting. I've shot deer with these as close as 30yd and as far away as 140yd. In every single case I've never found a bullet and the result for the deer was terminal.

[TedH]

I've been seeing a lot of reports in the gun rags lately with the Fusion ammo. It's most always one of the more accurate of the loads tested.

[El Chivo]

if you have a good round for hunting, I say go with it. You don't need to shoot a lot of your hunting load. One box can last several years. Save your reloading time for target/plinking rounds.