restore or not?

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:04 pm

Hi everyone, new to the forum and thought this would be a good place for this question.
I have an early 94 Winchester that needs some help. From the serial number it seems to have been built in 1898 and is a take down model with very nice wood and a long octagonal barrel. The wood and outside of the barrel still look very nice if not new. The problem is that the inside of the barrel looks like a lunar landscape, one of the worst I have seen. The frame has been engraved with someoneâ€™s last name but someone seems to have tried to buff out the engraving and failed. It is also scratched up some and looks very poor.

What are my options?
Can the engraving be removed and the frame refinished?
Convert to 38-55 to bring back the barrel?
Who can do that kind of work?
Or should I just leave it in the safe and forget about it

Thanks for any ideas,
Woody

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:15 pm

If you have the money, Turnball migth be able to do it:

http://www.turnbullrestoration.com/index.html

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:20 pm

Would like to see a picture of the gun. Probley there are several ways to go or not go at all. The engraveing, how deep is it? Possible to rebore depending on caliber it is now or reline. Gun could be reblued or even case hardend. I would need to see detailed pictures to give a personal opinion. Have you checked out whos name is on it? Also have you shot it to see if its keyholeing etc? Wonder if a exact replacement barrel could be found? I once had a shotout no finish 92 in 25/20 restored in .357 and it looked like the factory had done it new! I had it rebored, a friend meticuesly polished it, I bought new wood and had a nice reblue. Also had the fireing pin rebushed. Once done the same to a 73 to .38 specdial but that was a mistake!

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:21 pm

Welcome to the forum, Woody!

If you could post some pictures of that rifle, it would be helpful. See the sticky about how to do that.

deerwhacker444 · Post by **deerwhacker444** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:22 pm

Welcome to the Forum.

I've got zero advice on restoring anything of value, but there's a lot of knowledgeable people who will probably chime in directly.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:40 pm

Welcome Woody! Stick around

Turnbull is real good & 8 think the 38-55 rebore is an excellent thought. The gouged reciever gan be filed out.

Sound like you scored a good shooter project.

LeverBob

Mike Hunter · Post by **Mike Hunter** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:43 pm

Woody

First of all, you didnâ€™t post any pictures, without pics itâ€™s very hard to do an assessment.

The barrel can easily be bored and rifled to 38-55, or a new barrel can be made for it in the original caliber.

Mike Hunter
www.Hunterrestorations.com

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:59 pm

Welcome to the forum, Woody.

Definately don't leave it sitting in the safe.
It WANTS to be shot, you know it.

Have you shot it yet?
If so, how bad IS it?

If it's crumby, rebore it to 38-55 and have yourself a great time.
Is it possible to go to a .357?
I hear that's a really cool round in a lever.

engravertom · Post by **engravertom** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:31 pm

You might want to invest in a factory letter to determine what the original configuration of the gun was, as it left the factory.

A good restorer will be able to properly remove the engraving, or weld it up then re polish if it is too deep to safely remove. In that case, case coloring would be best, as bluing would likely show evidence of the heat of the welding process.

I would especially like to see a picture of the engraving, as well as the rest of the gun.

I have occasionally been asked to restore engraving on guns like yours, even if the engraving did not pertain to the current owner. That might be a consideration, if a factory letter shows the engraving was part of the original order

Take care,

Tom

wbwizzard · Post by **wbwizzard** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:09 pm

Try looking up the web site of Delta Gun Shop, they do that kind of work. I just sent them a model 94. The bore is in real bad shape, no blue left, and the previous owner had driven nails into the stock to repair a split. I asked them to bore it out to 38-55 and they are going to do what they call an "aged blue". With this gun I was not reducing the value as an antique, but rather making it something I am proud to own. To each his own. When I get it back I'll post some pictures ( I should have taken some before pics).

2row · Post by **2row** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:56 pm

Don't want to highjack your tread but I would sure like to see a link to the Delta gun shop

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:42 pm

Another option might be to have a liner put in the barrel, to keep it as original as possible.

Marlin .35 · Post by **Marlin .35** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:20 pm

I think a picture of the rifle would help us to help you more!!!!! Art

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:41 pm

1st: Welcome to the Forum.

To your question: If it were mine, I'd restore it. I don't have safe queens, although there are several collecting dust so my wife has something to do while I'm on the road. If it is safe to shoot as is, maybe I'd leave it alone, if it shot ok, regardless of bore condition. However, I like my stuff to look nice also. The following are my ramblings of someone with more sense than money!

If I were going to get the wood replaced and the barrel is shot out, a re-bore to another caliber is certainly something to consider, or... but, I think both Doug Turnball and Mike Hunter can rebarrel these with correct markings, etc. If you're thinking of leaving the wood alone, I'd figure on trying to match the finish on the gun to the wood, whether you rebarrel or re-line.

Lastly, depending on the depth of the original name and depth of buffing, maybe a tasteful engraving can hide the original. I have a fairly deeply pitted receiver that I'm considering having engraved to hide the worst of the problem.

But, I agree, pics are necessary for whoever you discuss the actual work with to be able to assess the condition and type of appropriate action.

gak · Post by **gak** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:46 am

Bogus Bill has some ideas. Sometimes, you've got to say - "what the hell..." and just do what you want to and enjoy it and the speculative future value as an old safe queen (or even shot/used as is--but no more) be darned. I had a friend to did a blasphemous thing - refinished an original M1 Carbine. It wasn't awful-awful, but had darkened all around, the wood needed freshening and the finish was worn - not just the "this might've been at D-Day" worn, but sitting or tossed around neglected worn-- just little charm left, at least on the surface...but you could tell it had it in it, just needed to be brought back out. There's no doubt in many people's mind, including collectors in the know, that he ultimately devalued the gun. But he (and I) think not in the short term, and maybe just quite not as much value--but not ruined--as if left alone in the very long term. He has no kids to pass it on to and just wanted to enjoy the thing. As it was purchased, for him, he could just tell it wasn't going to do it. His wasn't a complete restoration, but like I say - a re-freshening, reblue (but dang close to the original look), internal cleaning (which will never devalue) and the oiling/cleaning and (very light/fine) sanding of the furniture as mentioned. So now he has (for him) what looks to be the way it should've been if it were a reasonably taken care of carbine, and is enjoying the heck out of it. In your case, you've got the additional excuse of lousy bore. Go for it and as at least one gent said, it's meant to be shot - shoot it!

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:07 am

I did take a couple of pictures this morning but am going to have to study the picture posting thing, it looks like a pain till you figure it out. Anyway, I have not shot this rifle so I do not know what it will do. The wood is an excellent grain, really nice looking. It should finish nicely or could be left as is. The metal needs lots of help so I will have to start hunting up some prices and see what it will cost.

I see Turnbull list a 94 restoration at $2600, ouch

I am in no hurry; this is a long term project.
Woody
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DerekR · Post by **DerekR** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:22 am

Mike Hunter wrote:Woody

First of all, you didnâ€™t post any pictures, without pics itâ€™s very hard to do an assessment.

The barrel can easily be bored and rifled to 38-55, or a new barrel can be made for it in the original caliber.

Mike Hunter
www.Hunterrestorations.com

Click on the above link that Mike Hunter has in his signature.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:41 am

Woody -

Welcome to the forum. I'd get the barrel as squeaky clean as possible -- all lead, copper, etc. cleaned out. Then shoot it to see how it shoots. It just may surprise you. Don't worry about shinny. I've got an old, sporterized, P17 with a bore as dark as you'll ever find that shoots 1" MOA at a 100 yds all day long. Then, if you want to pretty it up, go for it.

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:22 am

The M.94, unless a very rare condition/caliber gun will never have the value appreciation that some other Winchesters have. There are just too many, (over 5,000,000). So just do what you want to do, restore, shoot it, refinish it, etc. Try shooting it as is, you may find it more accurate than you think. Otherwise a good cleaning and an inexpensive rebore, or reline would be my choice.

longarm4146 · Post by **longarm4146** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:26 am

my 2 cents worth as I recently fought the same fight as you with an 1897 vintage '86 in 40-65.....My rifle had been cut down and re-finished so it had no real collectible value as such, but it was mechanically a fine rifle with good wood...the bore was shot out. My intent with the rifle is to shoot it in SASS side matches and do a little whitetail hunting with it, but I needed it to shoot reliably and wanted it to look a little nicer....I sent the gun to john taylor to have it re-lined (keeping original barrel) and now it is being re-color cased and rust blued......this is a re-finish as opposed to restoration which should take a gun back to its original condition.....i'll have around 800 or so in barrel work and refinishing and will have a nice looking "shooter grade" original 86. Really depends on your budget and whether or not you want to take a $3-4,000 gun into the woods or just look at it. hope this helps, BTW i have a 1898 takedown 1894 in 38-55 that I may do the same with except it shoots good, but has been refinished.

wbwizzard · Post by **wbwizzard** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:34 pm

http://www.deltagunshop.com/index.html[ ... web site.

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:50 am

Thanks for the links. I am checking with them now.
I will also be giving it a good cleaning and take it to the range to see if it will shoot
Woody

restore or not?

restore or not?

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