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I need your help to settle a dispute with my daughter!
I asked her why americans call English limeys.
She is of the opinion as is many it is to do with Lime juice for the treatment of skin conditions suffered by navy sailers. This make no sense to me however.
The explanation I prefer is the one to do with King Georges army using limestone powder on thier wigs!
Wikopedia: Limey is an old slang nickname, often pejorative, for the British, originally referring to British sailors. The term is believed to derive from lime juice, referring to the Royal Navy and Merchant Navy practice of supplying lime juice to British sailors to prevent scurvy. The benefits of citrus juice were well known at the time thanks to the acute observations of surgeon James Lind who studied the effects of citrus on scurvy in 1747.[1] Limes replaced lemons due to limes being more readily available from Britain's own Caribbean colonies. Lemon juice was reintroduced after scurvy again became a problem due to lime juice lacking sufficient vitamin C. The term is thought to have originated in the Caribbean in the 1880s.[citation needed] A false etymology is that it is a derivative of "Cor-blimey" ("God blind me!" or "God blight me!").
Last edited by rjohns94 on Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mike Johnson,
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
I was under the impression it had to do with the consumption of limes by sailors and mariners to prevent scurvy, during a period when Britain ruled the seas. Along with large portions of the land.
EDIT I guess I type too slowly.
"...In this present crisis, government isn't the solution to the problem; government is the problem." Ronald Reagan
"...all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." Declaration of Independence
Nath, your daughter is right on the button! Scurvy killed more British sailors than the the Spanish and French fleets put together till Citrus fruits were found to prevent it.
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
Slightly O/T there is a GREAT action film called "The Limey" with quite a cast. Terance Stamp gives a compelling performance in the lead role! I saw it years ago and really enjoyed it. -Tutt
Never argue with your daughter, especially if you paid for her education!!!
Of course they are not always right But arguing with the fair sex rarely pays off.
Pete
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................
Chuck 100 yd wrote:My dad told me just what rjohns94 said!
Mine too!
This actually brings up a question. Is "Limey" considered an insult in the UK? I don't think "Yank" is here (unless you live down south where I do! ). I've always considered it friendly slang, kind of like the nicknames men have for one another.
Chuck 100 yd wrote:My dad told me just what rjohns94 said!
Mine too!
This actually brings up a question. Is "Limey" considered an insult in the UK? I don't think "Yank" is here (unless you live down south where I do! ). I've always considered it friendly slang, kind of like the nicknames men have for one another.
I have never taken it as an insult or being called a bl**dy pom by our Australian mates, I think a bit of banter does no harm, we have a saying over here, "smile when you call me Bas***d" BTW I would never call anyone from below the Mason Dixon Line a "Yank"
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
Nath, daughter is pretty well correct, I come from a long line of seafarers on both my parents lines. Any of the citrus family is a powerful anti-scorbutic. Slightly off the topic which maybe of interest was the rum ration afforded to HM ships and Merchant ships. It was reputed to thin the blood and aided in keeping somewhat cool in the hotter climates of the world where they served. I have experimented with various amounts of this substance, still cannot vouch for the cooling effect, but sure can give a powerful headache!!! Just because a little is good does not mean more is better!!! Practice makes perfect.
In the 1700's both my great great great great grandfathers were pressed into service with the R.N. One in Plymouth the other in Bristol. Both apparently loved the life and remained with the R.N. even after they served.
The use of Limes is correct, also in their day the British sailors were well trained and their job was considered a good way to live. Working conditions were rough and so were those of everyone who needed a living. The Brits paid good money to the sailors, they were fed decent food and the term 3 squares a day came from them. Most ships offered some kind of brewed beer instead of water as the water would get nasty fairly quickly at sea. I remember reading an account of them break off a battle as they ran out of beer and had to go get more. They did return and finish the battle as well. Couldn't be all bad. OF course you cannot put todays values to their day's values.
So ... anyone ever wonder why rats don't get scurvy while at sea? No. Well, unless you quit reading, you're going to know. The gene for producing Vitamin C internally is not broken in rats as it is in humans. We are, in a manner of speaking, defective in that regard. Technically, I believe it's the gene for producing a precursor required to then synthesize the ascorbic acid ... but the result is the same. I'm sure AJ will know for sure when he stops by.
... I love poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking dead things with a stick.
"Small outbreaks of scurvy persisted from time to time in the nineteenth century, still due to ignorance but also to the unfortunate substitution of limes for lemons. From 1860 preserved lime juice was made the official antiscorbutic and this led to a serious outbreak in 1875 in the ALERT and DISCOVERY in the Arctic. To bring the long story of scurvy up to date it should be added that even during [WWII] there were reports of preclinical or subclinical states of scurvy among some ships, especially submarines on long patrols in the Arctic when no fresh provisions could be provided.
The lemon and orange juice now issued to the Navy is fortified with ascorbic acid up to 0.4 per cent"
Rimfire McNutjob wrote:So ... anyone ever wonder why rats don't get scurvy while at sea? No. Well, unless you quit reading, you're going to know. The gene for producing Vitamin C internally is not broken in rats as it is in humans. We are, in a manner of speaking, defective in that regard. Technically, I believe it's the gene for producing a precursor required to then synthesize the ascorbic acid ... but the result is the same. I'm sure AJ will know for sure when he stops by.
Humans and guinea pigs (cavies) are both unable to produce their own vitamin C. That is the original reason guinea pigs were selected for medical experiments.
Jack Tar was a common English term used to refer to seamen of the Merchant or Royal Navy, particularly during the period of the British Empire. Both members of the public, and seafarers themselves, made use of the name in identifying those who went to sea. It was not used as an offensive term and sailors were happy to use the term to label themselves.[1]
[edit] Etymology
Recruitment poster from the Napoleonic WarsThere are several plausible etymologies for the reference to 'tar'.
Seamen were known to 'tar' their clothes before departing on voyages, in order to make them waterproof, before the invention of waterproof fabrics. Later they frequently wore coats and hats made from a waterproof fabric called tarpaulin. This may have been shortened to 'tar' at some point.
It was common amongst seamen to fat their long hair into a ponytail and smear it with high grade tar to prevent it getting caught in the ship's equipment. This practice continued until the early 20th century.[citation needed]
In the age of wooden sailing vessels, a ship's rigging was rope made of hemp, which would rot quickly in such a damp environment. To avoid this, the ropes and cables of the standing rig were soaked in tar, which had to be replenished by tarring.[2]
Griff,
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There is a fine line between hobby & obsession! AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
British sailors were also known as Jack Tars. I believe it was the practice with their long pigtails to use tar as a probable form of vermin control in the early unsanitary seagoing environment. Pigtails being tared.
Rimfire McNutjob wrote:So ... anyone ever wonder why rats don't get scurvy while at sea? .................... I'm sure AJ will know for sure when he stops by.
Ha! I studied medicine, not political science!
(...you know, rats = politicians ... well, it's still early in the morning... )
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws "first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
the telegraphist wrote:British sailors were also known as Jack Tars. I believe it was the practice with their long pigtails to use tar as a probable form of vermin control in the early unsanitary seagoing environment. Pigtails being tared.
Absolutly spot on. Tar was used on pigtails to keep them neat and to stop crawling vermin.
Rimfire McNutjob wrote:So ... anyone ever wonder why rats don't get scurvy while at sea? .................... I'm sure AJ will know for sure when he stops by.
Ha! I studied medicine, not political science!
(...you know, rats = politicians ... well, it's still early in the morning... )
AJ, need to correct you, it is not rats= politicians it is pols latin means of many and tics, which of course means blood sucking creatures.
Showed this thread to my daughter 'cause I've been harp'n on her to eat or drink more fruit juice, vegetables, and other things that grow out of the ground. Her response "guess you would know from actual experience back in 1747". Too old to chase her down and give her a whoop'n I guess....what a smart aleck!
