I want a levergun for NY Adk Mtns, recomendations !?!?!

Grizzzly · Post by **Grizzzly** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:21 pm

I would like to buy a levergun for hunting the Adirondacks in NY. My shots are usually close range in thick stuff, tops 150 yards across a swamp. I'd like a light, short rifle, I was thinking a larger bore like a 444 or 44 mag, maybe a 45-70. I'd like a Winchester 94, I'd like to hear your opinions & recommendations.
Thanks, John

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:35 pm

I have both, 44mag and Marlin444, they work fine for me. I cut the 444 down to 16.5 and made it my primary brush big bore. I like it a lot! Here is my 444.

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:40 pm

Try to find a 94BB in 356 or 307 good for anything you you would find inside the range you said plus much more. Of course there is always the 30-30 in what ever flavor you want. My personal favorite , Savage 99 in 300 or 308.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:43 pm

Grizzzly wrote: I'd like a Winchester 94

Sounds like you answered your own question. A 94 in 30-30.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:13 pm

kimwcook wrote:
Grizzzly wrote: I'd like a Winchester 94
Sounds like you answered your own question. A 94 in 30-30.

There's the classic right there. OR you could get a Savage 99 in .300. OR you could get a Marlin in .38-55.

Les Staley · Post by **Les Staley** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:25 pm

I'm just developing some loads for my BLR in 358 win. getting good results with the new 200 gr Hornady FTX . has a BC of 300, running out the 20" tube at 2550fps ahead of 52 gr of Varget.. 2" high at 100, 2" low at 200.. should bust an ole mossy horn right smart.. Les

dkmlever · Post by **dkmlever** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:34 pm

If you want a Winchester 94 that eliminates the 45-70 (I think this is true) I would think any and all of the suggestions would work, the Savage would be the longest in overall length so a Winchester in 30-30 32 Win Spec or a 444 wold be great. Wincehster does make the newer styled (with safty) 1886 in 45-70 it is pretty short, I bought the Extra Light version and it is nice for the deep elk woods. I also use a Marlin 336SG, using the new Lever revolution bullets it would also be a great choice for you.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:05 pm

[I would like to buy a levergun for hunting the Adirondacks in NY. My shots are usually close range in thick stuff, tops 150 yards across a swamp. I'd like a light, short rifle, I was thinking a larger bore like a 444 or 44 mag, maybe a 45-70. I'd like a Winchester 94, I'd like to hear your opinions & recommendations. ]

You've pretty much described exactly the conditions classic leverguns were designed for, peep sights and all.

The Winchester 94 was made in three different configs in .444 Marlin:

The BB94XTR 20" bbl, checkered walnut straight-grip carbine,

The Model BB94 Timber Carbine w/17" ported bbl & pistol-grip/checkered walnut stock, and

The 20" (IIRC) bbl blued steel/ black synthetic pistol-grip stock Black Shadow rifle.

The Winchester 94 was also made in the .45 cartridge that Marlin/Hornady designed to have the higher performance of top .45-70 handloads, w/o handloading - the .450 Marlin - as the BB94 Timber w/17" ported bbl & pistol-grip/checkered walnut stock.

.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:10 pm

I hunt the Adirondacks, (going out tomorrow) and agree most shots won't top 100 yards, and ya want something you can easily one-hand through the thick stuff.

My answer? Well, it used to be the gun on the left below, until I had the one on the right chopped to 16".

I have em converted for my cowboy .45 Special, loaded with a 230 XTP at 1400 fps but .45 Colt with good, warm handloads or Buffalo Bore stuff would even give ya more (just in case ya run into a godzilla deer)

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:28 pm

There a many good choices. If you go 45-70 or 444 you go up a receiver size so your gun is heavier. The Marlin 336 weighs 7 pounds. The 1895 weighs 7.5 pounds.

If you are going to use factory iron or a peep sight the Winchester 94 is a good gun to have. It weighs a little under 7 pounds. If you want to scope a lever it is easier to scope the Marlin.

It is impossible to go wrong with the Marlin or Winchester in 30-30. They just work and have plenty of power for deer.

wm · Post by wm » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:29 pm

Aw heck I'll say what all the other guys are thinking......Savage 99 in 300 Savage, 250 Savage or 308 Win (if you wanted to be a slave to practicality). Nothing better.

Folks have been hunting that ground quite successfully with darn near everything that has ever been chambered in a rifle. I think the approach you should take is determine what you like in terms of recoil, price, ammo cost, rifle configuration, sights, etc and buy that. If after a year or two you find you want to try something different than by all means try that.

But you won't have to do that if you start out with a Savage 99

Wm

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:00 pm

Don't forget about a Marlin in 35 Rem.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:24 pm

76/444 wrote:I have both, 44mag and Marlin444, they work fine for me. I cut the 444 down to 16.5 and made it my primary brush big bore. I like it a lot! Here is my 444.

That is a unique stock form! Interesting...

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:41 pm

Hobie wrote:
76/444 wrote:I have both, 44mag and Marlin444, they work fine for me. I cut the 444 down to 16.5 and made it my primary brush big bore. I like it a lot! Here is my 444.
That is a unique stock form! Interesting...

Just a standard factory stock that I tweaked a bit to suit myself.

Birdman · Post by **Birdman** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:44 pm

Opinions and recommendations: Here goes. I have a Winchester 94 Trails End 44Mag, and a Marlin Model 94SS 44 Mag. My opinion is the Winchester is a better looking rifle and the Marlin is a smoother, better handling rifle. My pick is the Marlin. As for caliber I have a good friend with a 45-70 and it is a handful with hot loads. Not an all day shooter, but fun and it will handle anything in the world. I ain't shot a 444, but ya can't ever talk bad about a 30-30 around me. I know this is more opinion than recommendation but for I'll go with the Marlin 94SS.

cas · Post by **cas** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:10 pm

My little .45-70... Castkill Mountains Levergun.

It's actually getting left home this year, I've taken my last two deer with it and there's other things that need their chance.

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:11 pm

I don't know enough about the .444 Marlin to say, but with most loads, 150 yards is stretching things to near the limit with a .45-70. And the .44 RemMag is not known as a long range cartridge either.

You also can't get a Winchester M-94 in .45-70.

An old friend from Chataqua County told me that his late father lived with a .30-30 in his hand.

IMO, you wouldn't go far wrong with a good .30-30 rifle. if you think you might want to put a scope on your rifle, go with a Marlin M-336, it is way less trouble.

Another rifle to consider would be the Browning BLR, especially one chambered for .308 Win or .358 Win.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:37 pm

Yep, Winchester 20" 94 in 30-30
Kittery Trading Post has one 90% condition,asking $260 but should take $230(they deal)
http://www.ktpguns.com/interior.php/pid/28/gid/141548
Good people there,only one I would buy from over them is Hobie!

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:44 pm

BenT wrote:Don't forget about a Marlin in 35 Rem.

+1!!!!

bogie

greyowl · Post by **greyowl** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:48 am

I have a Marlin 1894 in 44 mag. I've had it since 1979, so I have it figured out fairly well. It is a good choice for short range deer work. Compact and light, just over 6 lbs. I think the new ones run about 6 1/2 lbs. I have found the 44 mag to work very well at 150 yds. and under on deer. The Winchester 94 should be no different. The 30-30,32spl,307,356 or 375 are all good choices I think. Other than the 30-30 might take some looking around though. Good luck, you have a good idea going to a lever rifle.

BlueStateSaint · Post by **BlueStateSaint** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:40 am

Yesterday, in the mess that was Opening Day in the Adirondacks, I carried a Winchester M94 in .30-30, despite my father saying that I should be carrying the Remington 742 in .30-06. The 94 is the early-season primary rifle, then becomes the backup ater Thanksgiving when the Remington Model 7 in .308 Winchester comes to the forefront. I would like to get a Marlin Guide Gun soon, either a .45-70 or a .450 Marlin, but that'll have to wait a tad.

allhands · Post by **allhands** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:11 am

First let me say I grew up in Central NY and have some experience in the Adirondacks. The .444 marlin is an exceptional cartridge, as is the 45-70, but one question I pose to you...Do you handload ammo or shoot factory ammo..the reason I ask os the Two Dot test. If you for some reason forget/lose/damage your ammo, choose a caliber that is common enough that ammo will be readily available in Two Dot, (add state here). I have yet to find a country store in northern Maine that stocks 444 Marlin or 45-70, but i know I've seen plenty of 308, 30-30, 35 rem etc........

86er · Post by **86er** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:33 am

A good fit within your specifications would be the Win 94 Timber Carbine in 444Marlin (previously mentioned). It comes with a scout scope mount and XS Sights standard. Good looking wood stock and nice finish too. They are hard to find but, having hunted the Adirondaks for many years I think it would be a great gun for you. I don't know if you ever come across bear or might shoot one, but it would be adequate for that task as well. If you hunt way back and have to walk a long way, especially is dragging out game, this rifle is short and unobtrusive on a Vanilly sling (backpack type straps) or otherwise across your back. Short so it doesn't snag on overhead brush, flat so it doesn't poke you, light so it is not a burden, tough so it can take it.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:21 am

http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vi ... =143390503

There's one for sale on gunbroker. Winchester 94 AE in 444. Has a ported barrel though which I personally detest.

For my part, I'd go with a Marlin 94 in 44 Mag. I have one with XS sights installed and its a great shooter:

My favorite load for it:

21 Grains of H110 under the Lee 310 grain gas check boolit shown - 1550 fps or so from the 20" carbine. Shoots into 2" at 100 yards.

Just another option....

RANisbet · Post by **RANisbet** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:28 am

Go Classic!!
Get a Winchester Model 71 Carbine in 348 caliber.
It will do all you want including knock down a charging bear.
Trouble might be the scarcity of these and maybe the asking price.

fordwannabe · Post by **fordwannabe** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:30 pm

I've got better than half of the guns already mentioned and I think you should just get 'em all.(bet that stirs it up!!) Truthfully I don't think you could go wrong with any of those choices. Tom

shdwlkr · Post by **shdwlkr** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:20 pm

Well I used to hunt there and had a winchester mdl 94 with 24 inch barrel in 30-30 never found it to be under powered. I also have one with a 20 inch barrel in same caliber works also.
Have a 86 lite weight that works also
What you will have to decide on is barrel length and then manufacturer and then go hunting. Calibers are 30-30, 307, 356, 375, 45-70, 300 savage, 358, or dozens of other calibers.

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:34 pm

in a 94, the best combination of range, lightweight and knock down power has to be the .356wcf. a 200 yard 30-06 in a 61/4 pound rifle. lighter than a 71, but close enough in power and range. the .444 and 450 are bigger and hit harder , but not as flat shooting.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:04 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vi ... =143390503

There's one for sale on gunbroker. Winchester 94 AE in 444. Has a ported barrel though which I personally detest.

For my part, I'd go with a Marlin 94 in 44 Mag. I have one with XS sights installed and its a great shooter:

My favorite load for it:

21 Grains of H110 under the Lee 310 grain gas check boolit shown - 1550 fps or so from the 20" carbine. Shoots into 2" at 100 yards.

Just another option....

The .45 Colt version will do just about the same, (same exact recipe, IIRC), and make a bigger hole.

That said, I read the results of a survey done by NYSDEC a few years back. the average range a deer in NY is taken at is 33 yards. Most often in the Adirondacks, ya can't SEE a deer beyond 100, and in the brush, getting a bullet to em past 50 is touchy. In the old days, a 200 grain .44-40 bullet an 1000-1200 fps was considered PLENTY, and until the .30-30 had been around for a long time, the ole .44-40 still killed more deer than any other round. No cannons needed.

I had this discussion today with e a fellow who was sighting in his 7MM08, when he kinda looked at me funny when I told him I was running a 230 grain .45 XTP at 1400 fps in C45S out of my 16" levergun. It's more round than the venerable .44-40.....

rusty gunns · Post by **rusty gunns** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:46 pm

If money is an important issue, you can get some really fine previously owned Winchester and Marlin 30-30's around here (Adirondacks) pretty cheep.

If you want more pizzas, a Win 94 in 375 is another good choice.

I personally adore 45-70, it is a lot of gun for deer, but that Marlin Guide gun sure is "perdy".

I you reload, then the sky's the limit though store bought ammo could be difficult if you had to buy something in a pinch.

That 30-30 can take care of anything up here. The 375 is also fun (Though I prefer the 38-55 et all)

Guess its a matter of Druthers.

None of them are the wrong gun ... unless it's crew served. Its hard to get them between the trees.

Hecter · Post by **Hecter** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:55 am

Only one choice for the Adirondacks............Savage 99... A .300 sav, .250 Sav. , or even a 30-30 with the new soft pointed bullets. These are great guns and cartridges for woods hunting. If you buy a pre-war gun it will have been made in Utica,N.Y. If your eyes are good, a peep sight will work just fine. I recently received a gift from a friend showing old pictures of hunters in the Adirondacks 1905-1915...most all carried Savages. I guess they like to buy local products.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:32 am

I hunted in the Adirondacks for over 15 years with a Winchester 94 Tapper in 30/30, williams peep-sight. I loaded my own used 170 grain Remington bullets and IMR-3031 powder--great gun great load great memories. I now live and hunt in Washington State (Pacific Northwest), we hunt Mulies, Whitetail. Blacktail, Elk, Cougar, and Bear on the east side of the state, shots can be long, or up close in the thick stuff.

I've used a .270 cal Tikka, switched over to a Marlin 444, tried a Marlin 1895SS in 45/70, but settled on a Marlin 1894SS in 44 mag with a Williams peep-sight (works real well with my S&W 629). I use heavy cast bullets from 265 to 310 and have had success in the last three years since I switched to the 44 mag. Most of the deer I have shot have been between 60 to 120 yards--heavy cast bullets work well (my favorite is a 280grs. made by Beartooth Bullets http://beartoothbullets.com/).

I switched because I wanted my rifle to match my revolver, I missed hunting with a 30/30, but decided I like the punch of the 44 mag more. My buddies that use 300 Win Mags think I was crazy at first to downsize to lesser fire-power. But my recent success has changed their minds. The 1894 Marlin forces me to hunt--and reloading for the 44 mag is cheaper than the other options--kindof old school--same load and caliber for rifle and revolver.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:07 am

Grizzzly wrote:I would like to buy a levergun for hunting the Adirondacks in NY. My shots are usually close range in thick stuff, tops 150 yards across a swamp. I'd like a light, short rifle, I was thinking a larger bore like a 444 or 44 mag, maybe a 45-70. I'd like a Winchester 94, I'd like to hear your opinions & recommendations.
Thanks, John

Well...
Them're 3 almost conflicting requirements. The Winchester 94 doesn't come in a .45-70, but can be found in a .450. Personally, I don't think it works all that well in a .44 Magnum... tho' some say their's does. I just feel there's better designed rifles for the short, pistol length cartridges... like the mdl 1894 MARLIN and the 1892 Winchester and it's copies.

The mdl 94 Big Bore can be had in several powerful cartridges as mentioned before. But... for 150 yard shots, anything the Winchester 94 is chambered in is sufficient (except maybe the .25-35). I've shot deer with a couple of different .30-30s from 40 to 200+ yards... one shot, DRT. How much deader will they get by using more cartridge... HEY, you asked for opinions!

With good sights and practice a Winchester .30-30 carbine, rifle or even Trapper (16" barrelled version) is an excellent choice for shots limited to about 150 yards. As can bee seen below, a little judicisious study and then application the cartridge's trajectory can yield a very satisfactory hunting experience with a cartridge and rifle that long since proved themselves sufficient in the deer woods.

Good luck.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:36 am

Savage 99

300 Sav. if you reload.

308 Win. if you don't.

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:04 am

I hunt in similar conditions in southern Quebec. I use a model 94 in 356 wcf with a Williams peep for rainy days or when I know I will be thick stuff. When it is a nice day or when open shots are more likely a Savage 99F in 300 savage with a Bushnell Elite 1.5 x4.5. My backup/behind the seat of the pickup is a model 94 circa 1942 in 30 wcf. Anyone of these rifles will get it done. Good luck in choosing your rifle it has taken me 40 years to come up with this mix and who knows, it might change if I find something else.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:55 am

Well, IMO the 1892 is the cat's meow for handgun cartridges. Much better looking than the 94 and it really is a ton smoother in its action. It's a better machine.

You said you want something that begins with a .4
.45 Colt fits the bill for what you want perfectly. Paco Kelly says at the end of his article on the .45 Colt:
THE 45 LONG COLT IN STRONG RIFLES IS A EXCEPTIONAL POWERFUL SMALL CARRY/WOODS RIFLE..................GOOD SHOOTING.....

The article is here:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... vergun.htm

My solution would be to contact Nate at www.stevesgunz.com and buy a slicked, unsafetied, peep sighted 20" Rossi 1892 in .45 Colt.

Some Starline brass, WLPM primers, a pound of Reloder7, and some 300 grain gas checked cast bullets and I'd be good to go.

If you are not a reloader Grizzly +Ps really zip out of a rifle, there's a bunch of cowboy ammo out there for small game and even personal defense rounds.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:36 am

http://www.fieldandstream.com/files/ima ... marlin.jpg

Marlin 1895G in 45-70
Easy to carry/tank tough/and will kill anything walking on earth!

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:21 am

PM sent with a referral for you, John. Good luck!

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:43 pm

Kinda partial to a '94 Winchester Timber Carbine chambered for the .444 cartridge....don't get no sweeter than that!

reddnek · Post by **reddnek** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:53 pm

Bogie35 wrote:
BenT wrote:Don't forget about a Marlin in 35 Rem.
+1!!!!

bogie

#2 Never forget the 35!!!!!

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:47 pm

I have a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington - my first rifle, by the way.
It's an excellent choice for what you want. It'll kill anything you're
likely to encounter in New York. The Remington factory 200 gr.
loads work just fine, and are quite accurate. I (once!) shot a 1.5"
group offhand at 100 yards with that load and that rifle. The 150gr.
load is sometimes seen, but my rifle has always preferred the
heavier bullets in terms of accuracy.

The 30-30 is another first-rate cartridge in the same rifle.

I prefer Marlins to Winchesters because water and stuff doesn't make
it into the action as easily, and the Marlins are also easier to field
strip. Ditto for mounting a scope, should your eyes need one. (The
Winchester afficianados will disagree - just ignore 'em.)

44 Magnum is another good choice for relatively short-range work, as is the
45 Colt. 357 Magnum even, if you are a good shot and can work within a shorter
range limitation.

Those would be my top choices where ammunition availibility might be
an issue. If you reload, buy whatever caliber you want and enjoy yourself!!!

I gotta say, though, I've got a soft spot for the 35 Remington. That's
my first choice for the shooting you've described.

-Stretch

Birdman · Post by **Birdman** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:37 pm

There are many options and they all work. I would use my Marlin 94 SS because that's what I own.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:02 pm

Well, beings that your from New Jersey, the only thing I can recommend is a Daisy Red Ryder, and even those have to be registered.

--------Sixgun

1894 · Post by **1894** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:58 am

Funny how old threads like this one get bumped back this time of year .

I've allways prefered the marlins myself .
This is what the rifle rack at our camp in the adirondacks looks lke all through hunting season. ( there is a win 88 that sneaks up for late season )

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:08 am

1894 wrote:Funny how old threads like this one get bumped back this time of year .

Well yes it is an old thread. My my.

jlchucker · Post by **jlchucker** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:23 am

casastahle wrote:Savage 99

300 Sav. if you reload.

308 Win. if you don't.

That's not bad advice. And if you do reload, it's hard to find better bullet than the Remington 150 grain Coreloct. Take it from someone who knows--and once used a Savage 99 in 308, with Hornaday Round nose bullets--they don't open up well on whitetails--I've shot two with that bullet, and got them both with one shot each--but they didn't even act hit before starting to run. I switched to the 150 after talking to other woods hunters, including one of my brothers, who's now hunted with a 30-06 for about 14 years or so, getting a deer every year with one shot each, using a 150 gr handload. He calls his Model 70 lightweight "ol one-step" because each deer has dropped stone dead after taking one step. A well-placed hit from a 30-30 150 grain Coreloct will drop a deer pretty close to just as quickly.

1894 · Post by **1894** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:27 am

Tycer wrote:
1894 wrote:Funny how old threads like this one get bumped back this time of year .

Well yes it is an old thread. My my.

I didn't mean to make that sound like a bad thing

Leverguns and the adirondacks were made to be together

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:57 am

Add another Marlin 336CS 35 Remington. Perfect gun for that area.

Or if you want a lever/hangun combo - go with a Marlin 94 or Rossi 92 in 44 Mag - and a Ruger Blackhawk with 4 3/4" barrel.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:22 am

Wow......I guess it would just be too boring to get a Marlin 30-30,mount a low-power scope and go hunting.