Winchester 1873 38-WCF :-))

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:27 am

After some horse-trading, the 73 is now in my possession.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:35 am

Try steaming the flat spots where the gun was supported over the mantle with a wet rag and a hot iron. Might take a fair amount of steam to get the cells to swell back up. The crack might even swell shut. Remove any wax that might be present first.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:08 am

There's a really good article on lifting dings and depressions with water and steam in this most recent issue of Rifle Mag.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:47 am

So you guys think the wood is just very compressed from laying across a saddle for miles and miles? I was thinking the wood was worn away from friction. Well this will be interesting,
I think I will try the steam and see how it goes.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:05 pm

What is that across the top tang? It looks like some kind of cover plate that was riveted in place. Maybe to cover where an old tang sight had once been mounted.

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:13 pm

Keep it all original! You will kill the value (and the charachter) of the rifle, if you change something.

I agree with Rimfire. What is that cover on the upper tang? I am not sure if that is original, maybe the tang cracked around a screw hole, thus necessitating the plate.

I would nto even mess with the wood finish beyond attempting to fix the dents.

The charachter is part of the history in that rifle....

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:14 pm

Mike,

Read the history, you will see that the tang repair was made because a horse rolled with the rifle. had i kept it, I would have left everything as is.

blessings

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:16 pm

I wouldn't change a thing, other than maybe replace the wood, but keep the original so as not to damage it any further because I'd be shooting that piece.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:17 pm

Rimfire McNutjob wrote:What is that across the top tang? It looks like some kind of cover plate that was riveted in place. Maybe to cover where an old tang sight had one been mounted.

That is a very old, and very well done repair job.
This old girl has been around the block and then some.
A very interesting history goes with this one.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:20 pm

rjohns94 wrote:Mike,

Read the history, you will see that the tang repair was made because a horse rolled with the rifle. had i kept it, I would have left everything as is.

blessings

Where does one find the history text? I referred over to the original thread but I didn't see it here. There were some long posts but I couldn't find anything about a horse rolling on it. It looks like an exceedingly well done repair ... being riveted and all.

EDIT: Looks like casastahle answered my question while I was posting it. I look forward to reading the history once posted.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:25 pm

sorry, when I said "Mike" I was talking to casastahle.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:05 pm

Yes, I’m going to keep her as is. That would be the right
thing to do. I’m in the process of finishing up the clean up,
and putting her back together.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:40 pm

Wow...This is a great story... I've read the other thread about it too.. Is it me, or does the mag tube look bent to y'all?

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:39 pm

Removed

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:59 pm

Congratulations on that fine old rifle. I wouldn't replace the wood. I do have some good smokeless loads that give the same ballistics as the original BP cartridges. I'm feeling a bit under the weather this evening, so don't have the energy to go downstairs and look up my loads, but I will post them later. What a nice old rifle, and you have history to go with it as well!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:04 pm

kimwcook wrote:I wouldn't change a thing, other than maybe replace the wood, but keep the original so as not to damage it any further because I'd be shooting that piece.

+ 1!

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:11 pm

KirkD wrote:Congratulations on that fine old rifle. I wouldn't replace the wood. I do have some good smokeless loads that give the same ballistics as the original BP cartridges. I'm feeling a bit under the weather this evening, so don't have the energy to go downstairs and look up my loads, but I will post them later. What a nice old rifle, and you have history to go with it as well!

Thanks Kirk,

I’ve wanted to touch bases with you in regards to ammo.
for this old girl. Any info. you can pass along to me will be greatly
appreciated. I read where at one time Winchester made a HV
38-40 for rifles that scooted along at about 1,700 fps. That
would make for an awesome deer round.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:14 pm

That HV round was advertised by Winchester for the Model 1892. It would be too hot for the '73. Nevertheless, even at 1,300 fps, the 38-40 appears to have taken countless deer. This fall, I aim to hunt with my '73 in 38-40 using a cast bullet at 1,300 fps. I'll post that load info tomorrow. In the meantime, if you can PM me your email address, I can send you a most enjoyable little article about hunting with the 38-40.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:44 am

KirkD wrote:That HV round was advertised by Winchester for the Model 1892. It would be too hot for the '73. Nevertheless, even at 1,300 fps, the 38-40 appears to have taken countless deer. This fall, I aim to hunt with my '73 in 38-40 using a cast bullet at 1,300 fps. I'll post that load info tomorrow. In the meantime, if you can PM me your email address, I can send you a most enjoyable little article about hunting with the 38-40.

Thanks Kirk,

PM sent.

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:02 am

casastahle,
Neat rifle! Nice piece of Winchester history. I have a few W.R.A.CO. .38 W.C.F. cartridges that would be period correct that I would be happy to send you if you PM your address.

w30wcf

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:25 am

w30wcf wrote:casastahle,
Neat rifle! Nice piece of Winchester history. I have a few W.R.A.CO. .38 W.C.F. cartridges that would be period correct that I would be happy to send you if you PM your address.

w30wcf

Wow! and a big thanks w30wcf
PM sent

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:22 pm

casastahle,

Got it. I'll get them out to you next week.

w30wcf

KCSO · Post by **KCSO** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:10 pm

First as to the repairs, just clean it and get it working and leave it as is, that gun worked hard to get those dings and each one is a whole story. The forearm wear looks like it was rubbing on a buggy seat as one I fixed for a buddy a while back. In that case the owners granddaughter told of how the old gent packed it in the buggy every trip to town.

As to killing deer, after restoration my friends 38-40 loaded with a 180 RNFP bullet over 36 grains of FFg has so far killed 3 deer each with one shot. Get inside 100 yards and put it in the heart lung area and you will have meat. The 38-40 was Ned Roberts favorite 73 caliber as he said it shot flatter than the 44-40 and killed just as well.

EdinCT · Post by **EdinCT** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:12 pm

My Grandfather gave me his 38wcf its a 1892 though. I mentioned to my dad that it was a little weak for deer. He laughed at me and said if you put a 180 grain 40 cal bullet through their lungs you have them. He was right!
Fur Fish and Game advertises a book called 50 years a hunter and trapper about a Mr Woodcock who lived in PA from mid 1800's til the early 1900's and he used a 73 just like yours and really praised it. He said he had used all the rifles from muzzle loaders to 30-30 and the 38wcf was the best for him, he said it never let him down on deer or bear.
Enjoy,

RDB · Post by **RDB** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:09 am

Do you have a close up of the cuts on the dust cover? There is no way they were ever put there to mark a killing. Post a close up if you would and I may be able to give you some better info.

That rifle has likely killed more deer in it's first fifty years than we could easily count.

Too harsh of a cleaning that removes any of the aged patina will wreck the vintage finish as well. 100 year old guns aren't supposed to look new. They have a unique story to tell if you are willing to listen. Hardest part for me is not trying to make them into something you want them to be. As you noted the bore is fine. Mechnically it is sound. Shoot appropriate ammo and that rifle will out last your children's, children.

The forearm is worn nearly through to the mag tube from wear across a saddle pommel. It won't steam out. That kind of wear is reasonably common on early rifles that saw a lot of horse back use with the rifle used for animal or human protection. Knowing who owned it, how it got to Califiornia from Texas and what it was used for in Califonia makes that kind of wear a big part of the rifle's story. "Fixing it" would be a shame and a loss of real history.

Frederic Remington [American Painter and Sculptor, 1861-1909] shows carrying a rifle in that postion across the saddle in a number of his hstorically accurate paintings. A more modern reference shows Gen. Crook as Nantan Lupan in the movie "Geronimo", with Wes Studi, carring a rifle in the same across the pomel position. It is a rifle position men used to defend themselves against men. The bullet hole in the reciever of that '73 wasn't a a friendly fire or hunting accident. The 38 wcf was the documented choice of many savy or professional gunmen on both sides of the law. It shot flatter and packed pleanty of energy for man or beast around the turn of the century. The combo of Colt and Winchester in that cartridge many thought the best pair offered by either company.

Happy to fill you in on "the rest of the story" behind the rifle anytime. Left my contact info in a PM.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:36 am

Got your PM RDB, "Thanks"

Yes any more info. you can pass on will indeed be Cherished and
stay with this old gal (and yes in her unaltered historical glory.

Again thanks RDB

RDB · Post by **RDB** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:36 am

Any time. Hope you enjoy the rifle.

Here is one of the Remington paintings I was refering to and how your rifle was carried on horse back most of its early life.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:22 pm

There is mention of this way of carry in
an awsome old time article KirkD sent me.
Thanks for the picture.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:26 pm

RDB wrote:Do you have a close up of the cuts on the dust cover? There is no way they were ever put there to mark a killing. Post a close up if you would and I may be able to give you some better info.

That rifle has likely killed more deer in it's first fifty years than we could easily count.

Too harsh of a cleaning that removes any of the aged patina will wreck the vintage finish as well. 100 year old guns aren't supposed to look new. They have a unique story to tell if you are willing to listen. Hardest part for me is not trying to make them into something you want them to be. As you noted the bore is fine. Mechnically it is sound. Shoot appropriate ammo and that rifle will out last your children's, children.

The forearm is worn nearly through to the mag tube from wear across a saddle pommel. It won't steam out. That kind of wear is reasonably common on early rifles that saw a lot of horse back use with the rifle used for animal or human protection. Knowing who owned it, how it got to Califiornia from Texas and what it was used for in Califonia makes that kind of wear a big part of the rifle's story. "Fixing it" would be a shame and a loss of real history.

Frederic Remington [American Painter and Sculptor, 1861-1909] shows carrying a rifle in that postion across the saddle in a number of his hstorically accurate paintings. A more modern reference shows Gen. Crook as Nantan Lupan in the movie "Geronimo", with Wes Studi, carring a rifle in the same across the pomel position. It is a rifle position men used to defend themselves against men. The bullet hole in the reciever of that '73 wasn't a a friendly fire or hunting accident. The 38 wcf was the documented choice of many savy or professional gunmen on both sides of the law. It shot flatter and packed pleanty of energy for man or beast around the turn of the century. The combo of Colt and Winchester in that cartridge many thought the best pair offered by either company.

Happy to fill you in on "the rest of the story" behind the rifle anytime. Left my contact info in a PM.

RDB · Post by **RDB** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:40 pm

Two new "war" wounds in less than a month. You'll note there is no patina in those cuts. They are new since leaving here.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:00 pm

I’ve only had it since last Thursday morning.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:05 pm

I didn't put them there. probably showed up after the cleaning!?

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:15 pm

Looks like they were there during "my" take down and cleaning.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:19 pm

Those new war wounds can be made to look old with some plum blue. Heat up the part with a torch then swab on some of the stuff, then rinse.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:54 pm

KirkD wrote:Those new war wounds can be made to look old with some plum blue. Heat up the part with a torch then swab on some of the stuff, then rinse.

Did it Kirk,
No heat, just the very tip of a tooth pick.
results, very very hard it see now.

Winchester 1873 38-WCF :-))

Winchester 1873 38-WCF :-))

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