OT 223 rem or 22-250

[iceman]

I am thinking very seriously of buying a 22 cal rifle. In particular either the Savage edge (which I don't like the look of but I can buy for under 300 or a Stevens mod 200. The 223 in both has a twist rate of 1 in 9 while the 22-250 is 1 in 12. The faster twist is better for heavier bullets, and it will probably be my coyote rifle. Is there any real advantage to a heavier bullet or would a 55gr in a 22-250 at a faster velocity make up for the lighter weight. I may have lived a sheltered life, but is there any appreciable noise difference between the 2 rounds? Any opinions are welcome.

[gundownunder]

Up close the noise difference won't make any difference. You will deafen yourself if you shoot either one without hearing protection. At a distance the 223 will be a bit quieter.
The 22-250 would give you about an extra 100 yards or more with the same bullet weight.

[firefuzz]

Either cartridge loaded with 55gr bullets will easily turn a coyote into worm food out to 350yds. My experience with a .223 has been pretty much limited to the 55gr bullets and when both cartridges are loaded with those the .22-250 has a marked advantage in trajectory and range. However the cost of factory ammo would give the .223 the edge in that catagory.

Both are definately loud, loud enough to cause permanant hearing damage without protection in not many rounds with the .22-250 being louder.

Rob

[msmith1228]

Go with the 22-250, it is a extremely accurate and flat shooting round. My friend Steve bought an expensive 223 with the 1-9 twist and has fought it ever since. I think it just does not do well with lighter bullets at higher velocities. I don't own either but the 22-250 is very similar to my 220 swift and it is still impressive after over 35 years.
Mack

[iceman]

Thanks for the replies. I understand the velocity advantage of the 22-250, but was wondering of the advantage of heavier bullets in the 223 due to faster twist rate. Ammo cost is not an issue as I will reload either one. I have a couple hundred 45gr bullets I bet the 22-250 should be able to make them scream to an advantage to the heavier 65gr in the 223. Just thinking out loud.

[Blaine]

You can shoot the .223 VERY cheaply for tin cans and coyotes and spend lots if you want to shoot small groups.

[TedH]

If you are wanting to save the coyote pelts, you don't want to use 55 gr. bullets anyway as they can make a mess of a nice hide. A 40 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip will make a tiny entrance hole and rarely have any part of it exit a good coyote. It has been my experience that my 1-9" twist 223 won't shoot the light 40 gr. bullet nearly as accurately as the 55 gr. bullets, but, my 1-12" 22-250 will drive those little bullets to 4000 fps and nearly stack them in the same hole at 100 yards.

[O.S.O.K.]

If this is a single purpose rifle for coyotes - then the 22-250 is the more appropriate round. You want an exploding bullet that makes a small entrance and stays in the animal so as to put them down quick and do minimal damage to the pelt. So the lighter bullets are the thing and as you state - the 1:12 is made for them.

My Stevens 200 in .270 Win is a very accurate rifle - I vote for that. You can sand the mold lines off of the stock and camo the rifle up with Krylon. I dropped a rifle basix trigger in and its sweet but I guess you can work on the stock trigger to improve it - but they are not good out of the box.

[1894cfan]

Neither, bring back the .222 rem. Mag.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH, what a minite, we got the .204 Ruger! Now I can get that brass for less.

[Blaine]

IMO, saying you need a .22-250 because a .223 is no good is like saying you need a 300 Win Mag because a 30WCF is no good

[JReed]

I use a Stevens 200 in 223 for all my coyote hunting needs and have never felt that I needed any thing better. As others said off the shelf ammo is cheaper and easier to come by also it is a little cheaper to reload due to smaller case capacity. Just my 2 cents.

[TedH]

Where did anyone say the 223 was no good? We mentioned different twist rates and bullet weights, but I like one just as well as the other. Just for different reasons.

[JReed]

Neither is better just different. I like the 22-250 it is fun to shoot and in most cases very accurate. The 223 is just cheaper to shoot and I am a massive tight wad.

[COSteve]

From my experience with my ARs, a 1:9 twist will limit you to bullet weights of under 70grns to ensure they stabilize. Higher weight bullets like the 77 and 80grn versions really need a 1:7 twist to perform well. As far as which I'd choose, one of my ARs is an RRA 20" A4 flattop. With a 12X scope mounted on it I can shoot 1MOA at 300+ yds pretty easily using 68grn Hornady HPBT bullets, even with my old eyes. Many have great luck with 69grn Sierras and Varget with sub MOA groups at longer ranges common on large scoped varmint versions.

The AR platform is so common that you can set one up for varmints pretty much any way you want to. Also, because the .223 is so common, components are readily available so you can shoot them pretty cheaply as well. I'm shooting practice 55grn loads for $8.00/100 and my 68grn loads for $17.80/100. Try to find a 22-250 load in those price ranges. Also, while the 68grn Hornady and 69grn Sierras are target rounds, my experience is that they perform very well on 'yotes too.

[afish4570]

Had a .222 Rem. that was replaced in 1970ish by a 788 Rem in 22-250. The horse power race was on in those days. Bigger and more powerful was always better. To save the barrel and reduce costs you can always download to 223 velocities. But you you can't load a 223 to 22-250 vleocities.... Food for thought. Both were accurate 5/8" groups in those days was really great.The .222 used 23 gr. powder (aprox.) and the 22-250 used 38 or 39 gr. powder. Do the math, used more powder and was noisier. If you aren't shooting large quanities and use it for chucks and coyotes the performance is great for 22-250. Brass is alot cheaper for 223 if you are a volume shooter....afish4570

[BenT]

I picked up a stevens 200 in 22-250 in May . Both 223 and 22-250 use the same action thus their was no weight savings with a 223 package. I looked at the Edge but it uses a long action for all calibers, nice package for the price though. But since the Edge was coming in, the local shop was closing out the Stevens for $249. Plus I had already aquired 22-250 brass and dies from previous deals on used reloading stuff.

The Stevens shoots the 55 grains just fine. I have only tried one load and it will shoot 3 inch groups at 200 yards. If the trigger was better I could tighten that up. The great thing about the Stevens is that there is so much after market parts available for it. I'm going to hunt coyotes with it this winter. If I like it I might buy an aftermarket trigger for it. I sold a savage 340 in 222 to buy the Stevens , and the Stevens has a much better balance for carrying. Also it sounds like Marlin might come out with a 223 or 22-250 in their bolt gun, but that won't be until next year.

[Rusty]

I'm like Jeremy, I'm a cheap skate. I can pick up brass from the EBR boys after they leave it on the range BY THE TON.

I'm looking for a new bolt gun myself right now. It's a toss up between M77 AND A Model 7 with the M77 being out in the lead.

[HEAD0001]

The bigger heavier bullets are definitely an advantage in the 22 caliber. However that advantage goes to the 22-250, not the 223. The 223 is not powerful enough to get a large advantage from the 75 grain bullets. I shoot the 75 grain A-Max out of my 22-250 with a Krieger 1in8 twist barrel at 3300 fps. Now that is a high BC, long range shooting rig for varmints. 800 yards is no problem with that rig.

IMO the 223 runs out of steam at 300 to 350 max for varmints. Especially groundhogs and coyotes. A larger bullet is not going to help it out very much past 350 in the 223. But they shine in the 22-250.

Not alot of noise difference. You really need to drop to a 22 Hornet to get an appreciable noise difference. Tom.

[BigSky56]

Iceman I use solid bullets for my predator work in the 22 mag and past 150 yds a 223. You cant go wrong with the 55 gr FMC in the 223 it makes a nice little hole that the fur buyers dont mind. danny

[O.S.O.K.]

BenT - I highly recommend the Rifle Basix trigger for your Stevens - its one of if not the least expensive ones and is very good - dropped right in and is a great trigger.

[madman4570]

Call John at Kittery and see if he will take $365 ??
Those Win model 70 Coyotes (laminate stock w/heavy stainless barrel)are good!




http://www.ktpguns.com/interior.php/pid/28/gid/151122

THIS AINT GRANDMAS 223 READ BELOW!(how bout a .223 that might up the 22-250?)
Why not be different?
http://www.chuckhawks.com/223wssm.htm

[donw]

H&R/NEF used to caution that the .223 used in their rifle should not go beyond 52/55 grains as it caused stabilization problems. it had a 1:12 twist rate

i now have a .223 H&R Ultra Varmint in 1:9 twist and will shoot nothing lighter than the 55 gr fmjbt/hp/sp grain bullets.

the current trend of heavier bullets is due to the increased popularity of the AR platform and the military's effort to increase the effectiveness of the 5.56 round in combat.

to kill a coyote is not difficult with either...longer ranges dictate a different application in bullets though; heavier bullets to 'buck the wind' over longer distances and retain more KE.

[Nath]

From what I have seen from my friends new to him 22-250 and a friend from years ago with a 22-250 and another friend who used a 223 alot I would pick the 22-250.
For hunting shot costs are not really in the equation when you add up how much a feller can spend on gas and gear.

If I saw the only yote (or fox's to me) of the day at 400yds and it was near time to leave I know which one I would want,,,,,

Nath.