Reloading: Alliant 2400 in the .357mag

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:52 pm

I got two pound of A 2400 and around 400 125gr JHP to load.

Alliant lists the max load at 17.0gr for 1730fps.
Hornady has a max load of 18.2 listed for 1580fps.
Speer the max at 17.5gr for 1750fps.

Hornady third edition, an old, ( 20 yrs?) Speer reloadign manual and the Alliant data is off their website.

I'll go with the Alliant data for now, but was wondering if anyone had a pet load with Alliant 2400 for this round.

The gun is a Ruger BH with a 6.5" barrel.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:06 pm

14.9gr of 2400 under a 125 HP-XTP has been my most accurate load, in a 6" S&W 28.

centershot · Post by **centershot** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:12 pm

Scott,
I was never a big fan of 2400, until recently. I had not been able to find a charge weight that would give me an accurate group from my guns (bear in mind that I was primarily shooting J-bullets at the time). When I switched to primarily cast bullets all that changed! I loaded 11.0 gr 2400 with a 180 gr hard cast bullet for my 1894-C, the result was 1.25" groups @ 100 yds with a Williams receiver sight! My .357 mag handguns shot this load better than anything I had ever tried in them! It's the ONLY load I use in these guns now. In my S&W model 67 I load 9.0 gr under a commercially cast 158 gr SWC, great groups at +P velocities. It's worked out so well for me, I went out and bought a case of the stuff! As always, YMMV. Good luck in your load development!

centershot

"No-one is ever safe!"
Sarah Connor

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:30 pm

Thanks!

I will start at 14.9gr and see how it goes. I could load +P, but was hoping to get these 125s cooking.

I wonder what speed those +P loads are going. I am not using 180s as of yet, but if I do I'll try your recipe!
From all I've read on 2400 it is a very versatile and clean burning powder for everything you can load in a .357mag.

Though, I do like shooting 158gr bullets over 16.0gr of Lilgun. It's a very clean burning powder.

Did someone mention forcing cone erosion from Lilgun? I'll have to see what that is about and maybe limit the use of it except in a hog load.

After I get a good recipe for the 125, I'm going to load up some Norma 158gr FP bullets over some 2400, too.
Trouble is, I only have 40 of those bullets on hand...
I want to get some good hard cast 180s and make a hog slapper, so I'll save the Lilgun.

Keep em coming, I want to have a few different things to try.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:45 pm

Scott,

The old Hercules max load for 2400 with a 125gr JHP was 17.6 grs. I loaded up some at 17.5grs and they are HOT even with the older powder.

Starting low like you are doing is wise.

Although I can attest to the fact that at 17.5grs that little bullet flat wreaks havoc on anything with water or moisture in it. Especially when fired out of an 18.5" Marlin 1894Cs.

Joe

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:32 pm

2400 IS NOT clean. If you want 2400 performance, but without the mess and flash, then try VV N110. I use it now and it is almost exactly the same velocity per grain weight as 2400. The Hornady book shows the loads about .1-.2 grains apart.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:23 pm

I dont know about not clean I have found (this is with .45colt mind you) that with a heavy crimp it burns alright without to much mess. 17.6 behind a 125grn boolet

. I usualy only use 17grn behind a 250grn in my .45's man those must really cook

.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:12 am

JReed wrote:I dont know about not clean I have found (this is with .45colt mind you) that with a heavy crimp it burns alright without to much mess. 17.6 behind a 125grn boolet . I usualy only use 17grn behind a 250grn in my .45's man those must really cook .

In the Speer #8 (pre-Omark Industries)lists 17.5 as the starting load for the 125 jacketed soft point @ 1380 fps and 19.5 @ 1514 fps as max.

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:19 am

Some times there are some unburnt kernels - other than that is seems clean. They don't seem to bother accuracy in my use of 2400.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:08 am

I just worked on a silhouette load with 2400, best was 10 gr under a 180 gr lasercast (my other rifle likes 10.5).

I didn't notice it being particularly dirty, my Blue Dot load seems a little dirtier.

Maybe because I'm using a lower amount, it all burns. But I was pleasantly surprised.

Wicked accurate. 10 rounds in one cloverleaf cluster at 25 yards.

WyrTwister · Post by **WyrTwister** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:23 am

jdad wrote:2400 IS NOT clean. If you want 2400 performance, but without the mess and flash, then try VV N110. I use it now and it is almost exactly the same velocity per grain weight as 2400. The Hornady book shows the loads about .1-.2 grains apart.

Being a " clean " powder , is not one of the things I consider when selecting a powder .

God bless
Wyr

ejc · Post by **ejc** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:09 am

When you are ready to try 158 gr bullets I have found 13.5 gr of 2400 to be a good load in all of my 357s.

Like WyrTwister, I don't understand the fascination with whether a powder is clean burning. If the powder is accurate in my guns it is the one I will use.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:25 am

ejc wrote:When you are ready to try 158 gr bullets I have found 13.5 gr of 2400 to be a good load in all of my 357s.

Like WyrTwister, I don't understand the fascination with whether a powder is clean burning. If the powder is accurate in my guns it is the one I will use.

I like that load behind the Lyman 358156 GC.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:33 am

Shoot 100 rounds through a SS revolver, with 2400, and you'll really see the mess. Do the same with the VV N110 and it will surprise you.

.............but being that N110 is more expensive and harder to find than 2400, I still use 2400 more often.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:43 am

Old Savage wrote:Some times there are some unburnt kernels - other than that is seems clean. They don't seem to bother accuracy in my use of 2400.

+1. I used 2400 back in the late '60s for reloading 357 Magnum. I'd regularly get a few golden-colored unburned grains of powder, but with a healthy roll crimp it made for accurate loads. With no crimp or a very light one, accuracy would suffer.

Noah

ejc · Post by **ejc** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:55 am

jdad, I don't own any stainless guns but I don't care about the mess with my blued guns. A patch with some hoppes on it cleans up the oputside of the gun very quickly.

Is it harder to remove the residue on a stainless gun?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:13 am

I currently have some of the current Alliant 2400 and some 1960s (?) Hercules 2400. Using all the same components other than the two vintages of 2400 I can tell you that the older powder was dirtier than the new powder.

However it performed just fine.

2400 has a sweet spot that varies with the caliber, bullet, and load. It does not like being under loaded. It requires a certain pressure range to burn clean. When you get to the sweet spot it burns clean and efficient.

For instance, Elmer Keith's pet starting load for the .45 Colt was 18.5grs of 2400 under a 255-260gr bullet. This load has been a standard to compare other loads against for over 70 years now.
OK, using modern brass, standard primers, a 265gr Keith bullet, and Alliant 2400 I load 18.5grs and it is so clean there is virtually no residue or unburned kernels.

As far as I'm concerned 2400 is just fine.

You got any you don't want I'll be glad to take it off your hands.

Joe

Slick · Post by **Slick** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:46 pm

ejc wrote:When you are ready to try 158 gr bullets I have found 13.5 gr of 2400 to be a good load in all of my 357s.

Same here...

I like 12.5gr 2400 in .38spec and 13.5gr 2400 in .357mag - both using 158gr Oregon Trail cast bullets. It's not a "max" load but works great for casual plinking or target shooting.

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:34 pm

I will have to try 13.5gr under a 158gr bullet as I have a pile of 158gr hanging around.

I'm gathering a firm crimp will help maximize the efficiency of this powder. I generally like having a firm crimp anyway, and so long as the cases are uniform in length.

I had some unburnt kernels with the Lilgun and remedied that by crimp/neck tension/charge weight.

I guess I like "clean burning" powders because I shoot at an inside range every other week or so, and while I love the smell of burnt gunpowder, I have shot some .38SPL reloads with wadcutters that made the bench area so smoky I couldn't even see the sights after a few rounds. Plus, I could TASTE it and blew black snot for a couple hours. That can't be good.

I'm pretty confident I can get decent groups and not a ton of smoke from this powder so long as I crimp well and load them in pressures the powder likes to see.

I'm going to start at 15.0 and try half-grain increments to start, and hone in on the best groups from there. I know Jdad mentioned 14.9gr, but I'm skeptical as to whether .10 gr will make or break a load I'm working on. (I have seen stranger things though,) I know, I know... pistols are different than rifles.

I have my cases all cleaned, sized and chamfered ready for primers and powder tonight. I'll leave them out loaded and uncapped for a week as per my usual method for accurate loads.

Just kidding, they'll be capped and crimped directly following the charge.

-Just seeing if you are paying attention.

centershot · Post by **centershot** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:02 pm

I have my cases all cleaned, sized and chamfered ready for primers and powder tonight. I'll leave them out loaded and uncapped for a week as per my usual method for accurate loads.

You had me there for a minute, Scott!!!

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:44 pm

OK I have exactly 71 bullets loaded with 15.0gr of 2400 and a firm crimp.

The first two were "tweakers" from fine tuning the seat & crimp die. One's OAL is 1.580" and the other is 1.595" and they both have a frim crimp. The rest are all within +/-.002" of 1.590". I think what messed me up was that the cases after resizing and even without trimming all measured around .010" shy of the desired OAL. I measured a handful from the new bag of brass and they were all under by the same amount. Wierd.
No matter, I just lowered the crimp and made a little adjustment.

I did notice that after about 40 bullets the die backed out a very small amount so I tightened it down a smidge.

None of the bullets moved after seating, and on a few of them you could see the bullet under the case. I do believe the resizing die is going to be fine. This time I didn't bell them but just enough to get the base of the bullet to go in easy and stop at a depth of just under 1/8". They seated smoothly.

I can't wait to shoot them.

Range report soon to follow, after tomorrow's 24 hr. shift and a little breakfast.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:26 am

at least it doesn't smell like sulfur.

That's what I didn' like about my Magtech factory ammo, and when my friend gave me a few rounds loaded with Bullseye.

Phew!

Hey, don't worry about the black snot, we'll beat it out of you.