OT-Reloading for a friend

[.45]

Have a friend that wants me to reload some 25-06 for him. He brought over all the components, including a new can of H4350 and the load information that his brother has been using for several years in the same rifle he will be shooting. They have been using 52gr. with a 100gr. bullet. Before I started I thought I should look up the load just to make sure. The most recent Hodgdon's annual manual says that a max load is 50gr!?!? I then looked at my Hodgdon's #26 manual and they list a max load of 52gr. with the same velocity and preasure. So, what to do. I am thinking that the most recent load data should be used, and load development should start over. Go back to the starting load and work up. I guess I am just wondering what you guys would do and why such a difference between the 2 manuals. Has H4350 changed over the years?

[jnyork]

Newer manuals seem to be a lot more conservative, I have some that date back into the 1950's and their loads are sometimes a LOT hotter than the newer manuals. I think this is due to the lawyers.

I have always thought it was a risky deal reloading for friends, or having someone reload for you. If they miss the elk of a lifetime, guess whose fault it will be? If they get some snow, mud etc down the muzzle and then shoot it, blowing up the barrel, guess whose fault it will be? This line of reasoning could go on and on, I think you get my point.

If you absolutely MUST reload for someone else, I would load 'em quite a bit below what it gives you for maximum load in the manual. Too many variables there to start right off with the max.

YMMV.

[Thunder50]

Let you friend come over and set the powder measure, drop the charges and seat the bullets. You could pre-set the measure for him, but have him verifly the charge weight before he drops the charge. They would be HIS reloads then.

If you load them, friend gets hurt and some relative hires an atty. what would you say on the stand when asked about loading the ammo above current manual max?

Just saying

[COSteve]

In addition, you need a license to sell reloaded ammo just like regular ammo. I'm not saying that you're selling it but a court may not see it that way, especially if he gave you anything of value in trade. The friends I've taught to reload do it on my machine with their components, I insist that they follow the book limits, and they do the work of setting up and reloading. I just watch and ensure they are doing it correctly.

[Ray Newman]

See what Thunder wrote. And for that matter, I wouldn't let him use my equipment.

‘Gawd’ forbid that something happens and you have a claim filed against you. A lawyer will look for anything to show you were and/or still are at fault. And even if you win, you still will loose because a claim will show up on your insurance history.

This is the reason why I don't load for others or allow others to use my reloading equipment and wood working tools. From what I have seen, friendship and common sense goes by the boards when an personal injury or damage to firearms are involved....

[Pisgah]

Let you friend come over and set the powder measure, drop the charges and seat the bullets. You could pre-set the measure for him, but have him verifly the charge weight before he drops the charge. They would be HIS reloads then.

If you load them, friend gets hurt and some relative hires an atty. what would you say on the stand when asked about loading the ammo above current manual max?

Just saying

Amen. I have friends ask me to load for them, and my reply is always, "Tell ya' what, Joe. Bring your components on over and I'll walk you through how to do it yourself." I'll then do that, giving a reloading lesson and monitoring every step, strictly by-the-book. When we encounter situations regarding conflicting manuals, I'll explain why that happens sometime, and what he needs to consider before going with the hotter load. While we're at it, I write up a load data sheet detailing exactly how the cartridge is loaded, including notes as to the sources of the load data, print off a copy for him "so you'll always be able to duplicate it in the future" and, just incidentally, file a copy for myself.

I figure I accomplish 3 things:

1. A favor for a friend;
2. Gain a likely new convert to reloading; and,
3. About as good a defense against liability as you can get, without flatly refusing the friend to the point of even denying him advice.

[Hobie]

Let you friend come over and set the powder measure, drop the charges and seat the bullets. You could pre-set the measure for him, but have him verifly the charge weight before he drops the charge. They would be HIS reloads then.

If you load them, friend gets hurt and some relative hires an atty. what would you say on the stand when asked about loading the ammo above current manual max?

Just saying

Amen. I have friends ask me to load for them, and my reply is always, "Tell ya' what, Joe. Bring your components on over and I'll walk you through how to do it yourself." I'll then do that, giving a reloading lesson and monitoring every step, strictly by-the-book. When we encounter situations regarding conflicting manuals, I'll explain why that happens sometime, and what he needs to consider before going with the hotter load. While we're at it, I write up a load data sheet detailing exactly how the cartridge is loaded, including notes as to the sources of the load data, print off a copy for him "so you'll always be able to duplicate it in the future" and, just incidentally, file a copy for myself.

I figure I accomplish 3 things:

1. A favor for a friend;
2. Gain a likely new convert to reloading; and,
3. About as good a defense against liability as you can get, without flatly refusing the friend to the point of even denying him advice.

That is pretty much what I WOULD do if any of the lazy so-and-sos would do it. Nearly every one of them has found somebody else to do it for them.

[jnyork]

[
Nearly every one of them has found somebody else to do it for them.

You are money ahead on that.

[damienph]

There are very few people that I would reload for. One good friend that I reloaded some 357 for (his rifle) missed a coyote because one of my reloads "misfired". I went over the following day, took one look at his rifle, that he keeps in the cab of his tractor, determined that it was so dirty, the bolt wasn't closing all of the way, not allowing the rifle to fire. (one of his three Henrys)

I proceeded to shoot two full cylinders through my S&W 686. Worked fine, suggested he clean his rifle.

Moral of story; his first thought was that it must be my reloads, never even thought that it could be his rifle.

Sort of a "good fences make good neighbors" kind of thing.

[.45]

Thanks for all the replies and advice. I have never reloaded for anyone else and was kind of having second thoughts about it anyway. I also found out that his son just ordered a rifle in the same caliber. Once I heard that I told him he needed to buy his own equipment and do it himself or just buy factory ammo. Said I would show him the correct way to reload if he got his own equipment. Was kind of feeling like a jerk until I read the above replies. Not anymore.

[piller]

Yes, it is possible that the powder has changed. IMR 4227 and H4227 are an example. They both were available at one time, but now there is just IMR4227 and they are very close, but not the same. I would not use the old load data because if there is a change in the powder, you could cause a problem. Call Hodgdon and find out for sure. They have great customer service and will help you to get this load done in a safe manner. I would still suggest that you teach the friend to reload his own and help him to understand just why it is necessary to be very, very cautious.

[firefuzz]

Let you friend come over and set the powder measure, drop the charges and seat the bullets. You could pre-set the measure for him, but have him verifly the charge weight before he drops the charge. They would be HIS reloads then.

If you load them, friend gets hurt and some relative hires an atty. what would you say on the stand when asked about loading the ammo above current manual max?

Just saying

Amen. I have friends ask me to load for them, and my reply is always, "Tell ya' what, Joe. Bring your components on over and I'll walk you through how to do it yourself." I'll then do that, giving a reloading lesson and monitoring every step, strictly by-the-book. When we encounter situations regarding conflicting manuals, I'll explain why that happens sometime, and what he needs to consider before going with the hotter load. While we're at it, I write up a load data sheet detailing exactly how the cartridge is loaded, including notes as to the sources of the load data, print off a copy for him "so you'll always be able to duplicate it in the future" and, just incidentally, file a copy for myself.

I figure I accomplish 3 things:

1. A favor for a friend;
2. Gain a likely new convert to reloading; and,
3. About as good a defense against liability as you can get, without flatly refusing the friend to the point of even denying him advice.

That is pretty much what I WOULD do if any of the lazy so-and-sos would do it. Nearly every one of them has found somebody else to do it for them.

This is what I do for most people, I've had some aquaintences ask that I don't want in my house. The one's looking for a free ride won't show, but with the one's that do we have a good time. Started several people in reloading that way once they find out that you don't need to be a rocket scientist, just be able to read and be careful, to do it.

Rob

[HEAD0001]

I have always thought it was a risky deal reloading for friends, or having someone reload for you. If they miss the elk of a lifetime, guess whose fault it will be? If they get some snow, mud etc down the muzzle and then shoot it, blowing up the barrel, guess whose fault it will be? This line of reasoning could go on and on, I think you get my point.
YMMV.

I could not have said it better. Reloading for a friend is a good way to loose that friend. If he really wants reloads then let him come over and you can show him ho to do it. But let him do it, not you. I have seen it happen once to a couple of friends, ridiculous yes, but none the less the way it was. Tom.