1860 Army?

[Old Savage]

How loose or tight is the barrel supposed to fit on the spindle?

[Rusty]

It should glide on like a barrel bolt door lock would. No binding at all and have enough room for grease to be held on the shaft to prevent seizing. The original I had was Ser # 30060.

[Old Savage]

Mine is tight, tight, tight.

[Griff]

Shouldn't be so tight as to require force in install it. It'll be very tight after you install the wedge. My 1851s are a nice "slip" fit.

[Hobie]

I have seem some reproductions that need tools to disassemble and seem to have been assembled with presses. Is yours a reproduction? If so, may we ask who made it?

[Old Savage]

Mine is a Pietta. Seems finely fitted but it seemed the barrel was too hard to get off and on.

Griff - that is what I had expected on mine.

Hobie - is anything to be done about it?

[awp101]

Is it binding on the shaft or are the little nubs in front of the triggerguard oversized?

I've had crud get in the hole for the nubs that made for fun times until I cleaned or lubed them.

[kimwcook]

Have you shot it already. You might find that the wedge has peened the spindle a little, which makes it hard to get off. I have an Italian built 1860 that the spindle was extremely soft and the bbl. wedge peened the shaft. I had to take a file and smooth it out. I still have the piece, don't know the manufacturer off hand. I'll have to look. It shouldn't be extremely tight. My experience is that the Italians don't harden their firearms as they should. The brand new Uberti '73 I received for Christmas has screws that are really soft. I've ordered a completed hardened set of screws from VTI. The lady described the factory screws as "soft as butter".

[Old Savage]

It is tight on the shaft and I have shot it and cleaned it once.

[kimwcook]

OS, I'd rather start tight than loose.

[Old Savage]

Wondered if I just had to use it a few times or if I should use some fine abrasive.

[GregT]

I've had those two barrel/frame alignment "tits" both come out of the holes they were in! They both did the job, but when you took the barrel off the frame, you could lift the little "tits" right out of their holes! Cleaned the oil out of the holes and red "Loctited" the little "tits" on one end in place permanently. Remove the burrs from all the parts and you would be surprised how well these replica revolvers work. The barrel should just slide in place and the wedge should finger push in place.
GegT

[Lefty Dude]

I purchased a pair of Pietta 1851 from Cabela's this past year. The first thing I did was dis-assembly them one at a time and de-burr everything. So many sharp edges, some would cut your fingers. The one piece had a Burr on the arbor/wedge slot and also a burr on the front of the arbor. This made it hard to install the Cylinder on the Arbor. I used a small Swiss pattern file for the removal of the burrs and sharp edges.

I am pleased with them now, but they sure do come rough and need finish work.
But, for $149.00 @ what can you expect ?

A shooting Pard of mine bought a Pair of 1860's at the same time. He had to do the same thing as I did. When he was finished with the tuning process he antiqued them. It is hard to tell them from original 1860's now.

[olyinaz]

OS, those Piettas are infamous for needing work right out of the box. I guess that's why we get 'em so cheap.

A bit of polishing is probably in order (discretion being the better part of vigor here), and I also want you to look at your cylinder bolt stops to see if the bolt is peening the heck out of them. Every Pietta I've owned has done that and has needed to have the bolt carefully fitted to the holes and the holes repaired a bit. There's a lot of good advice on the timing and fitting of these revolvers on the internet but in a nutshell if you disassemble, remove the bolt and see if it actually fits into the cylinder bolt stops. You may be surprised at what you find.

It's fun to slick and polish these things up because when you do you're rewarded with some very nice handling guns. I love the grip on the 1860 much more so than the 1851/SAA Colt grip.

Don't work on that bolt until you know exactly what you're doing! You don't want to make it loose in the frame slot - you just want to make the tip that fits into the cylinder slots fit correctly. (Hope that makes sense.)

I'm on the road and don't have access to my materials re. these guns but if someone else doesn't post a link to some good info on the internet I'll send 'em to you when I get home.

Cheers,
Oly

[Old Savage]

Thank you fellows for your input, Oly - I would have to give them very high marks for the fit on this revolver and the bolt seems very well fit - better than any of my Rugers and as good as my Colt. There is no line on the cylinder except in that tiny scallop before the bolt stop and there is little play and the boot is seated. There are no burrs you can easily reach with your hands with the cylinder in but with it out there are some sharp edges around the edges of the frame. I put cold blue on the color case hardening and turned it a mottled blue that I like better than their CCH. The only funcitonal issue is the fit of the barrel on. I will shoot it again and reassess in light of the feedback from you fellows. I will look those issues over with the wedge fit and any burrs there.

[Lefty Dude]

FYI;

Over on a site called "The Open Range" there is a whole article W/ pix's and all on how to tune C&B Pietta's and Uberti's. The Author is Larsen E. Pettifogger. You will find this in the Darkside Library.

These articles were published in the Cowboy Chronicle several years ago. They were in several parts. The are cataloged now on the Open Range site.
Every thing you will ever encounter problem wise is there, as well as full tune up instructions.

I would print them out, there is a lot to digest.

[Old Savage]

Very interesting article there on Open Range. There is a lot of well pictured information there and you can see what is going on the whole way.

[olyinaz]

Yep! That's a great resource and it was one that I had in mind.

Glad to hear that you got a nicely fitted one OS.

Best,
Oly

[Lefty Dude]

Wayne; AKA/Larsen E. Pettyfogger helped me out on a 1860 Army made in Belgium in the late 1950's. The piece was made for the 100 anniversary of the Civil War. This was before the Italian's got in the picture. They needed replica 1860 for the reenactments and such in 1960.
A group from Chicago formed a Company called Centennial Arms. They then contracted with a company in Liege, Belgium to build the Guns. Some of the parts were made on machines that Colt sent to Europe in the late 1850's to produce the Colt 1851 for the European market.
The Company in belgium contracted to build the New model 1860, still held the license from Colt to build the 1851's.
The 1860 NMA's were built from 1959 to the middle 1970's.
The piece I own was the first generation models made in 1959. It has a three didgit S/N. The grip frame and trigger guard housing is Silver plated. It is as close to a Genuine 1860 as it gets.The piece I own was never fired, I was the first to sent a ball out the barrel.

I bought this last year at a Garage sale for $50.00. I thought it was an early Italian copy.

In Europe they are very popular and a web site in English is there.

For additional information on the Belgium Colts go here:

http://www.1960nma.org

[Old Savage]

Some pics of the piece Lefty??? Was not even aware of the existence of these guns.

[Lefty Dude]

I will try and get some pix's posted. I really do not do well at posting Pix's. Maybe my Son will stop by this week end and help me get some posted.

I was not aware of them either. When I bought the piece I brought it home and never gave it much thought at all. Several weeks later I picked it up and noticed on the butt of the grip-frame, "Made in Belgium" just kinda jumped out in my face. The only other markings on the piece is on the barrel, "1960 New Model Army" this is on the rear top of the barrel. On the left side is marked, "Cal' 44". The cylinder is engraved with the naval battle scene and marked," Engaged 16 May 1843". Belgium proof marks are all over the piece, as is on an original Colt all major parts are stamped with the serial number of the piece as well as the grips. Upon researching the piece, it is proofed marked for smokless powder. Even tho it is a Black powder piece.
I found this one by accident. As I stated mine is an early model. Later Models were roll stamped "Centennial Arms 1960 New Model Army". The one I have is a civilian model, thus the Silver plated grip/trigger guard. The Military model has the frame & grip fixtured for the removable shoulder stock as most all 1860 original have.
Larsen Pettifogger has been a great help getting the piece able to shoot. He has a pair of them.
The nipples on my were to long, when a cap was placed on the nipple the cylinder would not rotate. Pietta nipples were suggested. However the thread size was different and they would not fit. Wayne, suggested we chase out the threads for a Ruger nipple. I now have Treso Ruger nipples installed. The piece shoots very well.
The bore and cylinder chambers are very tight. The bore slugs .448", The chambers measure with a pin gauge, .449". A .451", round ball fits very tight in the chambers.

This one is going to Texas next Month for a Kurst cartridge conversion. I will be able to switch between cartridge & Cap & Ball.

They are out there, more will be showing up. They were advertised in the American Rifleman in the 1960's & 70's.