Do You Use Winchester 760?

[Blaine]

Do you like it?
Unless someone tells me different, I'm going to develop a load in .284 with it.
Thanks!

[J Miller]

Do you like it?
Unless someone tells me different, I'm going to develop a load in .284 with it.
Thanks!

Yes I use it, and yes I like it. Been using it for a long time. 30-06 and 303 Brit mostly. Very consistent metering and accurate loads.

Joe

[AmBraCol]

Years ago I bought a 1917 Enfield someone had sporterized, probably in the 50's. In original 30-06 caliber it was the "perfect rifle" for my needs at the time. I loaded up a bunch of cartridges using Winchester 760 and Hornady 165 BTSP's. At the range I walked the load around on the target by shoot, adjust, shoot until I got one round about where I wanted it to group at 100 yards. Then I cranked two more rounds down range. One ragged group that looked like only two shots when there were actually three through it. That was good enough for me so I stopped by Gibsons on the way home and bought another pound of 760 and another box of Hornady 165 BTSP's.

Yes, I like the powder, at least in my 30-06.

[Don McDowell]

I have used it, it can get squirrely on you. I went H414 and never looked back.
Some say that 760 and 414 are the same, they don't act the same in my rifles, and I have seen no data that would suggest them to be the same.

[Blaine]

I have used it, it can get squirrely on you. I went H414 and never looked back.
Some say that 760 and 414 are the same, they don't act the same in my rifles, and I have seen no data that would suggest them to be the same.

Position? Temp.? Metering?

[win92]

I have used it, it can get squirrely on you. I went H414 and never looked back.
Some say that 760 and 414 are the same, they don't act the same in my rifles, and I have seen no data that would suggest them to be the same.

Hogdon makes the stuff and they tell the world in all their new loading data that it is the same. Good enough for me!

[TedH]

I've tried it in several cartridges, but only use it as my "best" load in my 375 H&H.

[Don McDowell]

Blaine the stuff meters well, it is a ball powder.
It's seems to get to wanting to give unexpected pressure spikes when closing in on the maximum loads. You can find a load with it that's just fine and then all of a sudden I'ld start loosing primers or accuracy would go to pot, same load same same....
The 243 never did like the stuff.

[1886]

It is 414. Like 414, it is temp. sensitive and dirty. CCI mag. rifle primers are a good match. The powder requires somewhat high load density so properly utilized, position sensitivity should not be an issue. 1886.

[mark]

I used it in my 270W for twenty years.

Only reason I stopped was because the price became non competitive and availability difficult i.e. in Australia.

It was an excellent and predictable performer.

I would have no hesitation using it again.

Cheers Mark

[J Miller]

Temperature sensitive, finicky, dirty, needs magnum primers .... gads.

I must be doing something wrong, I've not seen one iota of this in my loads.

Joe

[Don McDowell]

It is 414. Like 414, it is temp. sensitive and dirty. CCI mag. rifle primers are a good match. The powder requires somewhat high load density so properly utilized, position sensitivity should not be an issue. 1886.

If they are one and the same powder, then WHY do they sell both. WHY do all the reloading handbooks from different companies not show the exact same maximum powder charges and velocities with the same bullet and test gun?
Funny you should mention 414 being temp sensitive, because I've not noticed that in my 243 loads, and they stay in the pickup year round....
No if you load 760 or 414 neither one will be at high load density at maximum , especially compared to 4350 and other stick powders.

[1886]

They are the same powder. Different lots of any powder produce different pressure/velocity. Most ball powders tend to be temp.sensitive and dirty. So what, I did not knock the powder. 414/760, properly loaded do exhibit higher load density than faster ball powders. Of course slow burning extruded powders do produce higher load densities. The granuals are larger. They sell both because they both sell. Good business. Obvious points. 1886.

[Don McDowell]

They are the same powder. Different lots of any powder produce different pressure/velocity. Most ball powders tend to be temp.sensitive and dirty. So what, I did not knock the powder. 414/760, properly loaded do exhibit higher load density than faster ball powders. Of course slow burning extruded powders do produce higher load densities. The grains are larger. They sell both because they both sell. Good business. Obvious points. 1886.

Hogdons own burn rate chart shows 414 to be slower than 760. Both are intended to be a ball equivilent to 4350.
Neither powder acts just the same in any of my rifles. The load data for each is different in the manuals.
They are very similar powders, but they are not the same. Much the same deal as the 4831's and 4350's.

Best thing Blaine can do is try it. His rifle may get along great with it, and then again maybe not..Won't know until he gets a hold of some and uses it.

[1886]

The burn chart obviously shows different burn rates. Even same powders will often exhibit different burn characteristics when they come from differnt lots. Some may be slower and some may be faster. H 414 is marketed as a ball equivilent to H-4350 and load data is not interchangable. Powders and compoments do behave differently in different arms. 414 from lot A will likely behave differently than 414 from lot B. This is why load manuals recommend starting at the beginning and working up slowly even with same components. One could argue 414 from lot A is a different powder than 414 from lot X. Comparing 4831 to 4350 is apples and oranges. 414 and 760 are the "same" powder packaged differently. H-110/296 same story. There are other examples. Yes, Blaine will not know until he experiments. God Bless, 1886.

[win92]

I have used it, it can get squirrely on you. I went H414 and never looked back.
Some say that 760 and 414 are the same, they don't act the same in my rifles, and I have seen no data that would suggest them to be the same.

Don go to the Hodgon web site and look up any cartridge that uses 414 or 760 and now you will see that all Hodgon Data is exactly the same for both powders. Data from old sorces was indeed different. Perhaps testing conditions were not the same, Hodgon prints a Magazine style loading manual every year now and in the manual they print what powders are the same now eg: H110 and Win 296 H414- Win 760 Cheers
Win 92

[Don McDowell]

Win 92, I'm perfectly aware of what Hogdons web says about the stuff. Also perfectly aware of their own burn rate chart that shows it's not the same stuff.
Also have a bit over 20 years experience with the powder in about 1/2 dozen cartridges, and reached my conclusions about it thru using it, not regurgitating stuff read on the internet, and trying to bolster my post count....
It worked great most of the time in the 06, the 7x57 was ambivilent about it but showed a preference for 4064, the 243,270 and both 308's hate the stuff...

[brno602]

I like it! but aways like the old H450 more as I tend to shoot heavy bullets for every cal. H450 and the .284 are a good mix

[Bullard4075]

"not regurgitating stuff read on the internet, and trying to bolster my post count...."

Let's not go down this road again questioning the motives of someone with which we disagree.

In fact Win92 is right, H414 is repackaged W760. Ditto with H110 and W296.
Don't believe it? Fine.
Please, if you don't like what someone says, take a break, go get a cup of coffee and let
the rest of us enjoy the discussion.

[Don McDowell]

Bullard sounds like you might need to go get one of those cups of coffee you're so proud of?

Get your reloading manuals out and do some reading, that's the least you can do if you don't have the actual hands on experience to back yourself up. Hell's bells go look at Hogdons burnrate chart they show the two powders as seperate powders. There is ABSOLUTELY no mention of them being the same powder..

But by god don't you come at me with that tone after the constant barrage I took just for posting my opinions based on my experiences.

[Bullard4075]

Bullard sounds like you might need to go get one of those cups of coffee you're so proud of?

Get your reloading manuals out and do some reading, that's the least you can do if you don't have the actual hands on experience to back yourself up. Hell's bells go look at Hogdons burnrate chart they show the two powders as seperate powders. There is ABSOLUTELY no mention of them being the same powder..

But by god don't you come at me with that tone after the constant barrage I took just for posting my opinions based on my experiences.

I took no tone with you Don, I just suggested you not assassinate someones character just because
they disagree with you.
And yeah, I actually do have the actual hands on experience to back myself up. Many years of it in fact.
Lot burning rates aside I have used W760 and H414 for years with similar results.
If you're experience is different than mine I have no problem with that.
And I will go get a cup of coffee, we all need some quiet time once in a while.

[jlchucker]

In response to the original question, I have used WW 760, as well as 748 for years. 760 is my powder of choice for at least one of my rifles. It is not the only rifle powder that I use, however, nor is 748. I posted this reply earlier, but it was somehow deleted.

[J Miller]

Do you like it?
Unless someone tells me different, I'm going to develop a load in .284 with it.
Thanks!

Blaine,
I'm not a ballistics X-spurt, so I do not experiment to any degree with my hand loads. The Win 760 loads I've had good results from came straight out of the old Winchester hand load data booklets. All I did was follow their instructions by starting 10% (or what ever their booklet said) below the max, and working up to the max. I never went over their max.
I usually use Winchester 8½-120 / WLR primers, although I've used other brands with good results as well.

I've shot my loads in the 120º Arizona desert heat, down to freezing in the mountains with no unusual results.

I know nothing about H414 because Hodgdons powders were always several dollars more expensive than others and didn't do anything better.

Just my experience.

Joe