POLITICS - just curious

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Scott Young
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POLITICS - just curious

Post by Scott Young »

what do yall think about huckabee? i lived in arkansas for awhile and he did good there. i also just finished listening to the news and his victory speech in arkansas was pretty interesting.
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Post by Joe Reilly »

I voted for him in our primary. Several on the ballot that had dropped out already. Dropping like flies.
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Post by Lastmohecken »

I have always lived in Arkansas, and I voted for him as gov. Personally, I never liked him but I hated everyone else more, so he was always the lesser of the evels.

I sorta doubt that he will get the nomination, and if he did, I sorta doubt that he could beat the dems but at least he doesn't scare me nearly as much as most of the other choices.

Unforunately, this year is not a case of who will be best, it's who will do the least amount of damage to my way of life. I could live with Huckabee in the oval office, I think.
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Post by C. Cash »

I like him, personally....talks alot for a Southerner but I like what he has to say. If it still matters and he has a real chance at enough Delegates then I'll vote for him in our primary.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
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Post by Ysabel Kid »

As a man and Christian - top notch. As a politician, other than his pro-gun positions, he scares me. Doesn't seem to have a firm grasp on the Constitution or foreign affairs. Likes "big government" and is of the same "compassionate conservatism" stripe as Bush. I long for the day that limited government conservatives will come back...
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Post by Pete44ru »

He scares me too - but yesterday he spoke specifically to his suport of the Second Amemendment, so if he makes it, I'll go with him.

He doesn't strike me as a waffler - like Romney.
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Post by FWiedner »

Anyone who justifies their political platform with religious dogma will abuse their authority, and do it with a clear conscience.

You'd think that people would have learned this lesson over the last several years.

:?
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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Post by mklwhite »

FWiedner wrote:Anyone who justifies their political platform with religious dogma will abuse their authority, and do it with a clear conscience.
+1
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Post by Idahoser »

:D
Last edited by Idahoser on Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by nemhed »

If a person truly is a Christian then their political beliefs or platform have to be an extention of their faith, not something separate from it. Abuse of authority "is what it is", a plain and simple example of human nature, just like greed and lust, not an example of Christian faith.
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Post by C. Cash »

FWiedner wrote:Anyone who justifies their political platform with religious dogma will abuse their authority, and do it with a clear conscience.

You'd think that people would have learned this lesson over the last several years.

:?
I do disagree(suprise :o :wink: ). I'm sure there's not anything that I can say that's going to be heard by those who believe differently, but to be true to my own concience, here goes. I will say that is a blanket statement that needs to be looked at more closely to see if it holds water. Using a "religeous" conviction to direct one's notion of right and wrong in decision making, as an individual politician or Joe blow, is different than forcing others to do the same by Theocratic rule. No one wants the latter as we know how fallible men can be. But back to the quote. How can a man seperate his concience from the Faith that drives it in decision making? Wouldn't that man be two faced in everything that he did? Surely men have seperated the two: Faith and Concience, and we have seen the most brutal regimes in the history of mankind: Hitler, Stalin and all the Communist heavy hitters to name an obvious few. On the flip side within our own country and Europe, were not the issues of Slavery, equal rights for blacks, women and children(sadly not yet for the unborn) brought to bear by men who had the moral conviction, based on their Christian faith, to do something about it? Were they supposed to keep their faith in a box and accept that these folks were property and less worthy forms of life? All men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness eh? As long as a mans Faith match his actions, and he does not force others to choose as he does(Free Will to choose being a central tenent of the Christian Faith), more power to him.
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Post by FWiedner »

I don't have a problem with a man being true to his own conscience, or to his faith.

I do have a problem with him forcing his favorite ecclesiastic candy down my throat, and using his office to do it.

The issue is that there are people subject to a politician's executive authority who hold different beliefs. They should not be subjected to administration wherein faith based decisions are imposed under color of law, or where their tax monies are extorted from them to support programs that are deliberately oppressive or immoral to their own beliefs.

:)
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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Post by mklwhite »

"How can a man seperate his concience from the Faith that drives it in decision making?"

It is not an issue, for me, of separating faith and conscience. It is more of an issue of using ones faith as a rallying flag to seek out that attention that that would provide.

"Surely men have seperated the two: Faith and Concience, and we have seen the most brutal regimes in the history of mankind: Hitler, Stalin and all the Communist heavy hitters to name an obvious few."

Not sure what this quote was about. Hitler had Faith and Conscience. Perhaps not defined as some may see it, and not popular as it may be, but still it was there. Stalin? Not sure about a religious faith. He was trained for the priesthood at seminary in Tbilisi, and during WWII he reopened churches. Though if that was a tactically motivated move to mobilize the Russian war efforts, I don't know.

"On the flip side within our own country and Europe, were not the issues of Slavery, equal rights for blacks, women and children(sadly not yet for the unborn) brought to bear by men who had the moral conviction, based on their Christian faith, to do something about it?"

That would work if "Christians" didn't own slaves before and profit greatly from slave trade. Arguably, they might not have been "as Christian" as those who fought against slavery, but I don't know if they saw it that way. To quote Rev. Alexander Campbell "There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral."

Do not take this as my endorsement of slavery. Just that as faith/religion may free some it can be used to condemn others.
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Post by Blaine »

FWiedner wrote:I don't have a problem with a man being true to his own conscience, or to his faith.

I do have a problem with him forcing his favorite ecclesiastic candy down my throat, and using his office to do it.

The issue is that there are people subject to a politician's executive authority who hold different beliefs. They should not be subjected to administration wherein faith based decisions are imposed under color of law, or where their tax monies are extorted from them to support programs that are deliberately oppressive or immoral to their own beliefs.

:)
:? We (generic we) wail and moan about the lack of morality in politics then wail and moan when an unabashed Christian starts talking...... Please show me where Bush has shoved his religion down anyone's throat, or where Huckabee has in Arkansas? Hint: Talking about it is called witnessing and is a requirement of the religion :wink:
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Post by C. Cash »

Don't want to turn the thread away from Huckabee, but will add a few comments:

FWeidner: It's just Democracy to me. It is what the majority of the folks who have lived in this country have historically and currently believed. It may come time when people who believe as you do can out vote me and I'll be eating the candy of others :shock:

mlkwhite: Sorry this is hodgpoge but I'm in a rush. Hitler seems to have adhered to a type of social darwinism and the Nazi's in general to a strange cult of Aryan mythologies. Those at the top threw off the fetters of Christianity in full, which was their history previous to the sweeping ideals of the mid-late 1800's.

There are always individual contradictions, but the impetus to end slavery was undeniably Evangelical Christian in nature. It was the driving force, whether we agree with how that impetus got translated to action or not.

A lot of people could tell us about Stalin's love of Christians but
unfortunately millions of them became fertilizer before they could tell us.

Paul advocted the release of the Slave that had come to him. If he had advocated the general release of slaves under Roman rule then he would have been issuing the death sentence to of many thousands of Believers, as they would have been deemed to have been creating a servile insurrection. But he does advocate treating a Slave as an equal.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
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Post by RIHMFIRE »

I like him...hes pretty conservative...except for the prisoner release
he did in Arkansas....at least thats what i have heard...good on 2nd,
says hes gonna cut taxes,
I like mit.....cause hes a business man and can count money...
I like mcain cause hes a hawk....military wise
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Post by mklwhite »

While I would love to wade in unfettered (yet again) on some of the previous posts, I fear of thread jacking. If someone would like to continue the thread then I'd love to jump over there with them. That being said:

"...strange cult of Aryan mythologies. Those at the top threw off the fetters of Christianity in full... "

That is not to say they (some not, all. Some where just hedonists) didn't have a faith, just not Christian. We must not confuse not if one is not a Christian then one has no religious Faith.

Back to the original post:

The thing about Huckabee I didn't like was his approach to illegal aliens. Wanting to give their children (still illegals, I believe, not those born here) access to grants to go to college. That being said I have heard a few of his more recent speeches and he is far easier on the ear than Mitt (sounds like he is trying to sell you something) or McCain (his being soft spoke sounds unsure, when he is not soft spoken it sounds forced).

McCain will take Huckabee for a vp and Mitt will have to go home.
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Post by FWiedner »

C. Cash wrote:Don't want to turn the thread away from Huckabee, but will add a few comments:

FWeidner: It's just Democracy to me. It is what the majority of the folks who have lived in this country have historically and currently believed. It may come time when people who believe as you do can out vote me and I'll be eating the candy of others :shock:
This country is not a Democracy it is a Republic, and as such is based in the rule of law for precisely the purpose of preventing tyranny by the majority.

The Constitution addresses this issue directly:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
A man who takes office and and starts swinging his religion around like a big state-sponsored club is doing exactly that, forcing his beliefs on the People by giving it the force of the law. A chief executive who does this is using the power of the state to force his religion onto the People, and using the law to force them to comply with his religious belief.

:x
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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Post by bunklocoempire »

I don't buy into Huckabee because he has, and others for him, have used his "faith" and supposedly Christian values for his campaigning for the office of president. Now please hear me out, I am a Christian first, an American 2nd, and what I've come to understand and believe over the past 30 or so years is Gods Word (and my actions through faith) change people for the better, NOT a government official or policies.

Fear and/or a weak faith drive Christians concerned with electing "moral" candidates to concern themselves with the candidates perceived faith rather than the candidates voting record and adherence to our Constitution, thinking that a president/leader with "faith" will steer all to morality.

This is very dangerous (as Americans) and irresponsible as Christians. As Americans we are (should be) united under our Constitution, Bill of Rights, advice of our founding fathers and only those things. As a Christian I am responsible for witnessing the Law and Gospel, promoting morality and personal responsibility.

As a Christian, the more of my blessings given to me by my Lord available to my use (directly) to witness and directly help my fellow man the better. (Taxes)
This means treasure, time and talents. A man running for president who's record includes not promoting people keeping their time, talents and treasures shows me he does not promote individual responsibility, he promotes government involvement.

Individual Liberty with out government involvement (or bringing "faith" into it) is the ONLY way to keep our Country together. One example of how Individual Liberty works is the argument of abortion vs. pro-life, the unborn baby has unique DNA and therefore is an individual and has rights under our Constitution. Never mind that abortion is abhorrant to me as a Christian.

When Christians are concerned with promoting Christian values through government, they should remember the Roman persecution of Christianity and the tremendous spread of the Christian faith in those times, kinda wrecks the argument for government officials with "faith" don't it? Along those same lines, when Rome adopted Christianity as it's "official" religion (Constantine) what followed?

As Americans please vote/promote our Constitution, as Christians (those who are) please realize we are responsible for helping spread God's word (and morality) and helping our fellow man directly, NOT our government.

Give unto Caesar, yes, but the more I can keep the better to serve my fellow man.

I really hope you can grasp this. Important for our Country and an individuals faith.

Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
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Post by C. Cash »

FWiedner wrote:
C. Cash wrote:Don't want to turn the thread away from Huckabee, but will add a few comments:

FWeidner: It's just Democracy to me. It is what the majority of the folks who have lived in this country have historically and currently believed. It may come time when people who believe as you do can out vote me and I'll be eating the candy of others :shock:
This country is not a Democracy it is a Republic, and as such is based in the rule of law for precisely the purpose of preventing tyranny by the majority.

:x

I am aware of this, just saying that our vote potentially matters.... using "Democracy" in it's loose and yes, technically inappropriate, sense that we commonly use it in. As to the other..Mike Huckabee is not going to create a state mandated religeon that your going to have to follow, and folks aren't currently able to stop him from saying that his concience is guided by the Lord, just like the Constitution states. I see no discrepancy. There is no rational link to a potential state mandated religeon here with Huckabee, just an individual using his Faith to guide his heart on a particular issue. The majority of our Founders did just that so he would be in good(yet currenly very un-PC) company..

mklwhite: that's the last of my thread hijacking here so you boys have fun! :) I just knew you would see it my way :) :wink: Edit: but I had to throw in the next post to further stir the pot.....

Not sure if he has a chance but I hope Huckabee can do it.
Last edited by C. Cash on Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by C. Cash »

Old George should have shut up too! Such abuse and tyranny!!! :wink:

Thanksgiving Day Proclamation 1789
Date: October 3, 1789
By: George Washington

Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a Day Of Public Thanksgiving and Prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

Now Therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the Twenty-Sixth Day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed;-- for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish Constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted;-- for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge;-- and, in general, for all the great and various favours which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

And also, that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions: - to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shown kindness unto us); and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.

Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the third day of October, in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
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Post by AJMD429 »

The difference which is important is between VICE and CRIME. A Christian candidate who believes in our form of government would ONLY seek to regulate CRIME (where a true victim suffers real harm - not some trumped up being 'offended' or 'degrading society' stuff that is subjective), and not VICE.

The church SHOULD regulate vice - when members do things that particular church dislikes - gambling, immodesty, or whatever, then they should deal with it. They can even preach to or try to convert 'outsiders.'

The government SHOULD regulate crime - when someone harms someone else. Gambling doesn't do that. Pornography doesn't if the 'model' is an adult and is willing. Prostitution doesn't do that. Drugs don't do that. The ONLY way those things 'harm society' is when you accept a socialistic model where we all are each other's nanny.

Agreed those things are self-destructive and idiotic and generally wrong, but they are NOT the realm of government. Churches should be dealing with those problems internally, and for those outside the church, you'd better send out your missionaries, but DON'T send the cops and soldiers, especially on the taxpayer's dime.

Unfortunately, too many Christians have lost faith in their own churches, and allowed the churches to cede authority to the government on moral issues. That has harmed the church and the legitimacy of the government.
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Post by BAGTIC »

Hitler's anti-semitism was almost certainly a result of his religious upbringing.
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