wondering which

[tinman379]

i am wondering which caliber to purchase...i know i want a lever action riffle but unsure of which caliber...i plan to hunt deer and elk with this riffle and looking at shooting a distance of 450-600yrds...i have been looking at a 45-70 and a 338 marlin i have shot the 45-70 but have many friends saying it wont get the range i am looking for. any helpful knowledge would be appreciated..i only recently took up shooting again first time since i got out of the army in 1991.

[pwl44m]

Surely U Jest.

[SJPrice]

I think you wanted the 50 BMG forum

[pwl44m]

Just noticed that U jest joined so Welcome. But calm down Man, U gotta C it to Shoot it. While the BMG would be a good choice, I don't think They make it in a Lever Action.

[AJMD429]

If you're wanting to hunt deer and elk at 400-600 yards, I'd only recommend doing that if you're an extremely experienced shot including especially range estimation, and correcting for wind conditions, etc. - even then, your bullet will take so long to get to the target, that it might just happen to take a long step or jump in that second, and your shot still result in a wound rather than a clean kill. Even with a .338 Lapua or other such long-range gun I'd be uncomfortable from an ethical standpoint shooting at an animal that far away unless there was just no other choice, but there are shooters who are extremely good and manage to do so yet only rarely fail to make a clean kill.

If your skills are already at that level, you already know what gun/cartridge you're that good with, and I'd not change a thing. If you're not, I'd stick with half that range and not hunt game until you've shot a few thousand practice rounds in field conditions.

If I had to attempt shots of that sort, I'd either get a .405 Winchester or one of the bottle-neck cartridges in a gun like the Savage 99, neither of which I own. My longest range levergun of any power would be a .444 Marlin XLR, but to wring the best really long range performance out of it, you usually need to handload long-for-caliber bullets and get into some challenges. I've never had the need or desire so haven't done so.

[redlevel42]

I use my 30-30 Trapper for shots under 300 yards, but for anything over 300, I move on up to the standard carbine length in the same caliber.

[Griff]

and Welcome to the Forum. As to your question... I just don't know where to begin. I believe that AJMD made a good start. Don't be offended, but as a first post... that one falls in the "what the ?" category. Makes one wonder about your experience, motives and intent. But, giving one the benefit of the doubt... IE, you have no nefarious intent, hidden motive and are a reasonably experienced hunter, your question comes across as one possessing a rather large amount of naiveté.

[fordwannabe]

Tinman welcome, I have not shot the 338 marlin so I can not give any input on that cartridge at all, however I shoot a 45-70 often and at 400 yards your holdover would be measured in feet if not yards. I am not critizing, I am asking why you think you would need to take such long shots? Please forgive my next comment , but I keep seeing TV shows about long range hunting and extreme range shots, and I don't get it. Why not stalk and hunt? I could not in good conscience take a shot at that range on anyhting that was not shooting at me first or about to endanger someone else.
Tinman again please don't take offense because none is intended.
Tom

[kimwcook]

Welcome to the forum, tinman. As has been stated and please don't take it wrong. The shots you're looking for are not a leverguns forte. First, we generally use open sights, not to say some of us aren't putting scopes (carry handles) on our rifles, but generallaly their a tang/receiver, bbl. sight and shooting the distance you're talking about with anything takes some serious practice, knowledge, confidence and tools. Some are confident in their abilities to shoot out to 400-500 yards, but most limit their shots to a more realistic 75-200 yards. Please don't take our comments as trying to make fun of you or we're a bunch of intolerable snobs. It's just your trying to play golf with a bat.

[Pete44ru]

Welcome to our fire, tinman !

If your service MOS was as a sniper, the only long-range levergun I would suggest that would come close to meeting your expectations would be a long-action Browning BLR (Browning Lever Rifle) in one of the magnum chamberings. (google)

They readily accept the scope of your choice - a given, for game (IMHO), at those intended ranges.

.

[JB]

i am wondering which caliber to purchase...i know i want a lever action riffle but unsure of which caliber...i plan to hunt deer and elk with this riffle and looking at shooting a distance of 450-600yrds...i have been looking at a 45-70 and a 338 marlin i have shot the 45-70 but have many friends saying it wont get the range i am looking for. any helpful knowledge would be appreciated..i only recently took up shooting again first time since i got out of the army in 1991.

Buy a bolt action rifle in one of the 7mm or 300 mags. Then back those shots down to 400 yards or less!

[RIHMFIRE]

lever action, breech loaded, shiloh sharps in 45-110........nuff said!

[SJPrice]

lever action, breech loaded, shiloh sharps in 45-110........nuff said!

and it still would be unethical to take a 400 to 600 yard shot at game animals for 99.9% of the hunters in the world.

[Old Ironsights]

Welcome to our fire, tinman !

If your service MOS was as a sniper, the only long-range levergun I would suggest that would come close to meeting your expectations would be a long-action Browning BLR (Browning Lever Rifle) in one of the magnum chamberings. (google)

They readily accept the scope of your choice - a given, for game (IMHO), at those intended ranges.

.

There's your answer... and the only one that doesn't defy ballistics or ethics...

[Blaine]

I love my 45-70...a lot..but I wouldn't take a shot past 150 or 200 yards with it....At 200 yards I would be holding over about 14-15 inches. If you can make consistant hits at 600 yard, go for it.

[stretch]

Welcome, Tinman!

The depth of knowledge on this forum is really quite impressive.
if you ask a question, you'll always get an honest - and usually
very well-informed answer. you've gotten some of both to this
question already!!

That said, elk at 600 yards with a traditional levergun is pushing
the envelope - quite probably beyond what is reasonable either
ethically or physically within the limitations of most levergun
calibers.

If you are that good at 600 yards - and maybe you are - something like
a 7mm Mag, 30-06, 300 Weatherby Mag, maybe 338 Federal, etc. would
be suitable - none of which are traditional levergun calibers.

At more reasonable ranges - say 150 yards or so - 35 Remington, 45-70,
and the new 308 Lever round would all be suitable. Even 30-30 for elk if
ya get in close. Lotsa old-timers have killed elk with the 30-30. The 45-70
would be overkill for deer, but you could always save your brass and load
it down a bit.

I kinda like that Shiloh Sharps idea, though.

Try one or two of the above leverguns at some measured distances and let
us know what you decide.

-Stretch

-Stretch

[Ysabel Kid]

Welcome aboard! For something traditional yet capable of what you are asking, how about a 1895 Winchester in .30-06 Springfield?

[Blaine]

Welcome aboard! For something traditional yet capable of what you are asking, how about a 1895 Winchester in .30-06 Springfield?

Can you scope an 1895?

A Federal '06 with Nosler Partition 150 grain is dropping nearly 4 feet at 500 yards

[Ysabel Kid]

Welcome aboard! For something traditional yet capable of what you are asking, how about a 1895 Winchester in .30-06 Springfield?

Can you scope an 1895?

Hmmm... good point. I was thinking more of a lever in a cartridge that could handle the distance. Guess one would have to be able to see that far too!

[Cimarron]

Mmmm, something that shoots between a quarter and a third of a mile. What's been said before is good advice. Go with a bolt and a big scope. Although I too like the idea of a .45 Sharps. What ever you choose I hope you are good at reading the wind at that distance.

[wavetrain75]

In some circles they call it a side lever. Might as well go all out and get it in .338 Lapua.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

There's three elements required to make a shot like that and they all go hand in hand, too. First, you have to be a good shot at those distances. That takes lots of trigger time to learn just the variables, dope the wind, humidity, mirage.
But, even if you are up to it you won’t find many leveractions that are capable of that kind of accuracy. The gun will have to be able to group 2moa consistently for starters. That’s going to give you about 8”to 9” groups at 400yds. Groups any bigger than that is just unethical. Part of the problem with most leverguns is just too many moving parts that generate stray vibrations that destroy accuracy. That’s the main reason single shots and bolt guns tend to be more accurate, not many moving parts.
Next, is the ammo. Ammo for tubular feed leverguns is generally not up to the task. Mainly because the bullet BC (Ballistic coefficient) is so poor it just doesn’t perform well at those distances. However, Hornady LEVERevolution Ammunition shows some serious improvements in BC and terminal balistics out to 300yds.

[Griff]

Welcome to our fire, tinman !
If your service MOS was as a sniper, the only long-range levergun I would suggest that would come close to meeting your expectations would be a long-action Browning BLR (Browning Lever Rifle) in one of the magnum chamberings. (google)
They readily accept the scope of your choice - a given, for game (IMHO), at those intended ranges.

This was the conclusion I came to also, but without knowing you, was relunctant to expound on. The rifle is capable and can be scoped easily, the rounds are capable, now the only question is are you?

Doesn't come in 338 Marlin which doesn't come close to the performance of the 300 WinMag. And, it's debatable if it's the equal of the 7mmRemMag. In fact, the .300 and 7mm are still debated as to the better long range cartridge. Go figure, it too something like 35 years for someone to outshoot the 7mmRemMag with the .300WinMag @ 1,000!

[jjames]

Not knowing your capabilities I won't comment on the ranges you are discussing. Definately out of my league. As I recall Browning chambered BLRs in the 300 win mag. That would be my choice if I were considering such an undertaking.

[JB]

lever action, breech loaded, shiloh sharps in 45-110........nuff said!

and it still would be unethical to take a 400 to 600 yard shot at game animals for 99.9% of the hunters in the world.

I think 99.9% might be a little low! That 45-110 with the old factory 550 grain bullet sighted over a foot high at 100 yards is about 24 FEET low at 500 yards. The trajectory is so rainbow shaped, you'd never be able to even see what you were shooting at. Too many people believe the stuff they see on the movies. I loved the movie Quiqley Down Under, but the long distance bucket shot was pure fantasy.

[Don McDowell]

BLR with a good scope and be sure and use a range finder.

Sharps etc will work fine IF you can read the wind, and have regulated the sights and practiced long enough.

But in the end shooting past 300 yds at any previously unharmed animal is more of a stunt than anything related to hunting.

[tinman379]

thank you everyone for the sugestions...let me say this i am not a guru in ballistics or calibers...that is why i asked the question... as for the people who have never been in montana where i live thoose distances are not unheard of or uncommon...i do have a 30-06 bolt that i use but was looking into what else might be out there for a lever action that might work...as for my mos in the service i was a proud member of the 1st INF DIV ...i am skilled at hitting my target...

[Old Time Hunter]

thank you everyone for the sugestions...let me say this i am not a guru in ballistics or calibers...that is why i asked the question... as for the people who have never been in montana where i live thoose distances are not unheard of or uncommon...i do have a 30-06 bolt that i use but was looking into what else might be out there for a lever action that might work...as for my mos in the service i was a proud member of the 1st INF DIV ...i am skilled at hitting my target...

First off, Welcome...second, I have hunted in Montana and was successful with a levergun on elk. I used a '94 Winchester Trapper chambered for .44 Mag, got it up in the Bitter Roots, down across the Clark Fork. Spotted the guy from a spot that when viewed with the naked eye looked no bigger than an ant. Through a spotting scope though we were able to ascertain that he was a good size 6 X 6 (ok, 6 X 5 3/4) bull. Must of been a mile or so down the valley and across the Fork, we were also a good 1000' higher than him. Took me the rest of the day to shimmy down the side of the valley, cross the Fork up wind of him, and crawl into the bull rushes across a small meadow from a stand of trees that he went into when the light faded. He woke me up the next morning coming to the Fork for a drink of water about seven yards from me. That was the longest shot I have ever took, but the bullet only traveled seven yards. Can not contemplate a 600 or so yard shot at a critter....'cause that just ain't hunt'n.

[AJMD429]

I could not in good conscience take a shot at that range on anyhting that was not shooting at me first or about to endanger someone else.

Well said; in those cases the idea of a 'humane, game-killing shot' wouldn't apply. Sometimes folks interested in discussing 'what-if' scenarios of that type prefer to frame their questions more in the politically-correct terms of 'long range elk hunting'.

[vancelw]

thank you everyone for the sugestions...let me say this i am not a guru in ballistics or calibers...that is why i asked the question... as for the people who have never been in montana where i live thoose distances are not unheard of or uncommon...i do have a 30-06 bolt that i use but was looking into what else might be out there for a lever action that might work...as for my mos in the service i was a proud member of the 1st INF DIV ...i am skilled at hitting my target...

I can hit a steel buffalo at 800 yards and earn a point (with a .45-70 or .40-65). But to humanely kill a live animal at that distance would be pure chance. You hit in the jaw, the foot, the rump. Then by the time you cover the distance to the animal he is long gone. Soon to be coyote food.

I keep my hunting shot range within the limits of the maximum point blank range of the rifle I happen to be using. For my .308 that's 300 yards. For my 1886 .45-70 its less than 200 yards. For my .40-65 it's less than that. I enjoy getting within spitting distance of my prey if I can.

For long distance lever action get a .348. The rifles good to 300 yards if you are.

[rodeo kid]

Lets see, you haven't been shooting in 20 years,(but you are a good shot) and want to shoot live animals at 600 yds with a 45-70 or a .338. Words come to mind, but foolish is the nicest I can think of. I agree with the .50BMG suggestion, maybe a nice Barrett bolt action and a few months of practice. This is not hunting, it is at best wounding and to me is immoral. I'm sorry if I have not spoken as nicely as some others but this foolishness boggles my mind. God Bless.

[tman]

Another vote for the 1895 in 30-06. Since your are infantry, you know how to shoot. Welcome to the fire.