How do you carry your saddle scabbard?

[kimwcook]

Those with experience hunting or packing in on horseback, how do you mount your scabbard on your saddle. Butt forward or rearward, on your strong side or weak side, on side or off side and why?

[jengel]

I have very little experience on a horse, but, read Elmer Keith's book "Hell, I was there" and he gives his view points on why he carried his the way he did. Excellent book.

[Lastmohecken]

Elmer Keith liked what is called the northwest position with the sights or scope turned up. This is probably one of the best positions if you are actually hunting off of a horse, but not nessairly shooting off of the horse, which is probably not a good idea, anyway, unless you know your horse very well. In the northwest position you can get off of your horse and still keep control of his head, while you pull your rifle out. Elmer liked this because he often rode horses that were green broke or a little rank to handle.

Jack O'Connor preferred the south west position, with the scope or sights in the up position. His thoughs were that he dismount the horse, drop the reins and ease the rifle out, without upsetting the horse or if the horse did shy away or take off, he could hopefully still slide his rifle out the back as the horse went foward. He didn't like the southeast position because he would then have to walk around behind the horse, which might allow the horse to kick him. Some horses will do that, on occasion. However, I would tend to guess that Jack usually rode well broke horses, probably trained to ground tie. In other words, when you dropped the reins on the ground, the horse is trained to pretty much stay there where you leave him. My dad had a old saddle horse when I was a kid that would ground tie, but sadly I never had another horse that would, usually if you dropped the reins, they would take off and you would end up walking home.

I think those are the two best positions, unless you are carrying a ironsighted leveraction, and wanted to access the rifle from the horse, then the southwest position, with ironsights up would work. Of course in the old westerns movies you would see the northeast position with the sights down, making it easy to access the rifle from the horse.

I don't think it is wise to carry a rifle resting on it's scope or sights, so I would rule out that last position.

Keith's northwest position has one disavantage, in that you need to be careful going through brush or woods, because you can get a sapling, or branch caught between buttstock and horse, and if the horse is jumpy, you could break a stock, get throwed from the horse, etc. but at least with the rifle up front, you can keep an eye on it, you just need to be careful when riding in brush or woods, Some horses are better then others when it comes to riding in the woods and not draging your leg off on the side of a tree.

O'Connors southwest position has the disavantage or potential to allow the rifle to get snagged and pulled out of the scabard, or fall out when going up a steep hill. So, you may want to use a hood over the stock to protect the rifle, and keep it from falling out. And don't let a loose sling strap hang out of the scabard either, to get caught on something.

[marlinman93]

I've never carried one on a horse, but my father and his brother always carried theirs in front of the saddle, with the butt straight up. He said it stayed put better if they were traveling up or downhill, without ending up on the ground.
If carried that way, you need to remove it while seated in the saddle, and then dismount, as it's not easy to retrieve when standing beside your horse.

[SJPrice]

Okay so I am revisiting an old topic. I prefer to carry my rifle straight up and down in the northeast position on my saddle with the sights facing back. I am left handed and this allows me to reach across with my left hand and pull my rifle from the wrist/lever area. I can do this while mounted or in a relatively smooth manner as I dismount. By keeping the butt relatively straight up and down it also guards against getting a branch or brush caught between the horse and the rifle which can snap a stock. My problem is that saddle scabbards are designed to attach in a more horizontal fashion. I am considering having a scabbard modified or built from scratch with the upper strap made as an upside down U to slip through the gullet and around the swell. The lower strap would be horizontal, but higher up to slip around the cinch up near the D-ring. This position also keeps the rifle out from under your leg and allows for better contact with your horse and more comfort for your leg.
My questions are:
1. If I decide to have a scabbard built, what can you tell me about experience with lined vs unlined scabbards? My current scabbards are unlined and work fine, but I would like to do it right if I have one made.

2. Has anyone ever had made or seen a fleece lined scabbard with a heavy zipper or some other method to open it up for drying out if it gets wet. I am leaning toward a fleece lining, but trapped moisture would be a concern.

I am asking for any and all creative ideas. You guys have always proven to be creative thinkers here.

Thanks.

Steve

[2row]

I use one on all my Horses on the right side Buttstock up tyed to the swell on top an to the sturip on the bottom easy for me to get out from the ground or on the horse and you never hang on Brush. PS I shoot from the back of my horse. she is dead broke an will be 20 yo in may this year. I got her when she was 17 months old.an broke her like I wanted her broke.

[2row]

well I forgot to tell you I will never again use fleese in a scabbert again I have used split pig skin in all of what I have now easy on the gun an will not stay WET.

[Malamute]

Funny this just came up again, I was talking to a neighbor a couple days ago, he mentioned something about his wife trying to lose a rifle. She had it in a scabbard facing back and it came out and got lost. He had to go look for it. This was one of the main reasons Keith used them forward. What little I've carried in scabbards on horses, I liked it northwest. Another aspect Keith suggested was putting the scabbard between the stirrup straps, keeping tension on the rifle when you had your foot in the stirrup. When riding in bear country I prefered it in my hand wedged in across the front of the saddle, but that isnt practical for many folks. I just wanted it with me in case I came off in a hurry, or without notice.

If you pay attention to many westerns, you can see many rifles slopping around in rear carry scabbards when they are running, obviously about to fall out. Watch Last Stand at Sabre River for a good example of this on Sellecks horse and Henry.

[SJPrice]

That is the same position I use. I also can shoot from my horse and have on two occasions been lucky and taken coyotes with a 45 Colt while mounted. In both cases we rode up and caught them napping so to speak. I have not tried shooting a rifle while mounted, but I am sure my horse would be fine.

[SJPrice]

well I forgot to tell you I will never again use fleese in a scabbert again I have used split pig skin in all of what I have now easy on the gun an will not stay WET.

I never thought of split pig skin. How does it affect the tension when you pull your rifle?

I just looked at a scabbard I almost never use from Triple K. I never use it because it is for a scoped rifle for one and it is one of those adjustable length scabbards which makes it extra long. It has a "suede" lining which I am sure is synthetic, but has the feel of pig skin. On your split pig skin scabbard, is the lining just sewn in or is it glued in as well?

[kimwcook]

This post made me do a double take this morning.

Here's how I carry mine, but with sights up.

[pwl44m]

This is very interesting. For the last few days I have wondered about the (Saddle Ring )and what it is actually for. So instead of making a new thread May I interject on this one ?
In watching many Old Cowboy Movies I have never seen one actually used. I have seen plenty with a little piece of rawhide tied to it both in Movies and real life.
So in reading the answers to the OPs question I may very well have My answer. There have been plenty of answers of a particular way of mounting the Scabbard and posts of Rifles falling out. I have often wondered in watching Cowboys why they would mount Their Rifle in such a fashion. Some of Them even had a hard time retrieving Their Rifle when needed and of course They all shot from Horseback.
Seems to Me the best position would be Sights up and slanted back and the Rifle secured with either a snap or tied in.
Maybe RR can help here with some Pics of Saddle Rings actually being Used.
Just My thoughts, I sure aint no Cowboy.

[BigSky56]

Kim, I carry mine on the off side sights up muzzle forward, the muzzle is above the belly line of the horse so it wont hangup going over blowdowns and you can pull the rifle sitting in the saddle or on the ground. This system also works for leading a packstring as theres no rifle in the way, as in butt up front of the saddle, if you have to dallyup to help a horse along or if one goes down and you have to pull him up. If your worried about going up hill when going crosscountry tie the rifle in I use a leather string riveted at the throat and tie around the wrist of the rifle.
Price, fleece lined scabbards will ruin your firearm as the horse sweat migrates thru the leather to the lining and it works like a sos pad on the gun plus a scabbard can be dried at the end of the day at a fire but the lining wont get dried cause its not removable. danny

[Griff]

I think it's best when you and your horse are comfortable and it won't interfere with mounting & dismounting. However that is, it's just personal preference. I've had more(?) experienced hands try to tell me I was doin' it wrong; but one of the MOST experienced cowboys I ever knew just said, "...if it works for you..?". And shrugged his shoulders. Huntin' coyotes on a borrowed ranch horse, I used the 1st method below; it wasn't till I moved to Texas and considered gun retention (from people) that I started method 2.

When I was in the Sheriffs Posse I carried mine in one of 2 positions: if working a cattle or livestock call it was on the offside, butt rear, sights up, relatively flat; if it were police work, it were again offside, butt-forward, sights down with a sharper angle for retention. However, although I shoot right-handed, I rope lefty. In the 1st carry pose, it couldn't interfere with my rope thow.

And, as said above, always between the stirrup leathers. I've never had a lined scabbard, nor has a rifle ever fallen out... I'd be more worried about a fall & broken stock. I've got two scabbards for my 94s, a 30" for my rifle and a 26" for the carbines and now my Trapper. That 26" covers the Trapper all the way back to the end of the lever; both are tighter'n a well... you get the idea!

[Charles]

There is no right or wrong way, and it tends to differ with regions and traditions.

In hilly country, folks ten to carry the rifle butt forward at a steep angle to keep the rifle from coming out going up hills.

Here in the Brush Country, folks tend to carry the rifle with the butt toward the rear, to keep from pulling brush and limbs between the rifle and the horse. The butt will be as high as it can be, but not higher than the horses ,so you don't hit the rifle butt, with your leg when mounting or dismounting. I have known folks to carry the rifle with the sights up or down, but I have never seen the wisdom of resting the rifle on the sights and dragging the sights every time the rifle in inserted or removed.

One thing for certain, is you don't want to leave the rifle in the scabbard is you step away from the horse for more than a moment. The horse may take a notion to scratch an itch on the nearest tree and it doesn't much care whether your rifle is damaged or not.

[Lastmohecken]

I have been experiementing with carrying a rifle on my curent Quarter horse, but I have got a long way to go, I fear.

I am leaning towards the northwest position (Keith's favorite). One position I would not consider is a foward position with the rifle butt above the saddle horn, as I have seen in a few pictures, and that is because I see it as a good way to get my teeth knocked out, if a horse spooks, or rears up, and if a horse ever fell down or rolled, the stock would get snapped off.

[Don McDowell]

Butt forward, onside.
Much easier to get the rifle in and out of the scabbard, you and the horse can both keep track of it that way without much fuss.
Have read the arguement that well if you get caught in the brush with the rifle that way you could break the stock..
Experience would indicate that if you got something going on that with the rifle in buttforward position with your leg holding the gun against the horses side, that may cause the stock to get broke , you got bigger worries than a busted rifle stock....

[Hagler]

Perry in Bangor,

The saddle ring is used to keep the soldier & his rifle together. A horse soldier needs to have his rifle at the ready at all times. Here is the original style carbine sling:





Here is a modern version of the Carbine Sling

http://www.castbullet.com/srsling.htm







When mounted on his horse, the soldier stored the rifle, muzzle down, in a Carbine Socket:



Shawn

[SFRanger7GP]

I have always carried like BigSky56 shows in his photo. However, I do not use a traditional leather scabbard anymore. I bought a cordura one several years ago from Cabela's and found it to be the best one I have ever used. I provides excellent protection for the rifle from the elements and terrain as well as the horse. You won't be setting any fast draw records with it but I carry a handgun to fill any requirement for "easy access".

[pwl44m]

Thx Hagler, Do We call that a Myth Busted ? Much like the single point and 3 point slings used on ARs, but that is way off thread.

[kimwcook]

As stated I think's up to personal preference. Now, how about spur strap buckles in or out??? Just kidding.

[pwl44m]

As stated I think's up to personal preference. Now, how about spur strap buckles in or out??? Just kidding.

Do U Mean Right or Left ? <3 it

[Wes]

Barrel forward, near side. I don't like to have to walk around my horse to get my gun out. I hate lined scabbards and hate cordura. Besides the moisture problem in lined scabbards, they make your leg stick out from your horses ribs so far as to be uncomfortable and makes it darn hard to make contact with your horses ribs.
When I guided I saw other guides putting scabbards on butt forward on the off side a lot. Looked really cool when the dudes were trying to a) get the rifle out and keep their reins gathered up and b) if they did get the rifle out, trying to get off a horse with a rifle in their hands. Most ended up on their butt without a rifle or a horse.
I can get off my horse and draw my rifle pretty quick with it mounted this way. I don't like shooting off horses for more than one reason. One is you might get turfed, the other is that they aren't all that stable a platform.
If you have a sling on your rifle and pack it barrel forward, make sure it's up where it won't get snagged, or take it off.
When I lead a pack string it's with my right hand, am so used to using the reins with my left and roping with my right that it's easier for me, so it keeps my rifle out of the way having it on the left side.
I just step off and draw the rifle in one smooth move.
Just my own experiences.

[Lastmohecken]

As stated I think's up to personal preference. Now, how about spur strap buckles in or out??? Just kidding.

You know, I actually have seen them both ways, and for me it would be eaiser to put my spurs on, (with my boots already on my feet) if the buckles were to the inside, but there might be more of a chance of tripping, and I think they just look better on the outside, so outside it is.

I guess we could go ahead and start contemplating types of spurs and rowels, etc. My favorite pair for using, is a set of Craig Cameron's shortshanked spurs with 1 inch rowels, but I love the looks of those big old Mexican spurs, with the jungle bobs.

[Griff]

As stated I think's up to personal preference. Now, how about spur strap buckles in or out??? Just kidding.

You know, I actually have seen them both ways, and for me it would be eaiser to put my spurs on, (with my boots already on my feet) if the buckles were to the inside, but there might be more of a chance of tripping, and I think they just look better on the outside, so outside it is.
I guess we could go ahead and start contemplating types of spurs and rowels, etc. My favorite pair for using, is a set of Craig Cameron's shortshanked spurs with 1 inch rowels, but I love the looks of those big old Mexican spurs, with the jungle bobs.

OUT!

[RIHMFIRE]

i have to carry it.....
no horse!

does an atv count?

[20cows]

Here's mine.


I don't have any pics, but the leathers on my spurs apparently have a left and right cut to them as they don't fit right unless the buckle is on the inside. But it makes since as that puts the fancy tooling on the outside instead of the buckle.

[kimwcook]

Nice rig there, 20.

It depends on my spur straps as to whether they're worn buckle in or out. Depends on the straps. These are the spurs I wear most the time. As you can see their worn buckle inside.

DSC_0004.jpg

DSC_0005.jpg

Now these are my BBQ spurs. Notice the buckle is on the outside.

DSC_0006.jpg

DSC_0007.jpg

Someday I'm going to get a real nice set of spur straps with nice sterling silver buckaroo conchos. When I have the extra coin to just spend on straps.

[handirifle]

Never done it, but my gut would say, left side, regardless if strong or weak. reason, you get on and off there, and it would take a lot longer to get the rifle from the other side, and make dismounting safer.

[Griff]

As to those that say "near side" because they can reach it after they dismount... I have to agree with ya. However, grabbin' the rifle outta the scabbard as I dismount has never proved a hinderance... and I'm on the ground, armed in less time than if I were to do that in two steps, vs. the one. I know it ain't good form... but again, I had an old cowboy once tell me that I should be able to mount and dismount from any side that I needed to. Grabbin' that Winchester outta the scabbard and swinging that left leg over the horses neck and slidin' off to the ground ain't necessarily a skill one needs... for everyday use, but when the ocassion arises and you NEED to... well, it's best to be ready! What's the term? Injunin' it? I do wish that I was as limber as when I learned to do it.

It's also helpful that my horses ain't very tall! Even reachin' over if I decide I need it after I land on the ground. As for puttin' the rifle in the scabbard, it's a good excuse to walk around to that side and check my riggin', et al. Used to feel if they weren't 16 hands, they wasn't big enough... now I like 'em closer to 14! Less distance to the ground when you're separated, all unintentional like!

[71fan]

Another vote for southwest, with all of my experience limited to only hunting / packing. We use a sliding scope cover to secure the rifle, which works equally well with leverguns by grabbing behind the hammer. We use unlined leather, leather with wool sock (for protection during packing), and full length zippered cordura.