Went to the range...learned a lesson

[TMair]

Yesterday I had a change to go to the shooting range to shoot my Browning 1886 carbine, I had hand loads 400 Gr. jacked flat point, at Max load, man are those things brutal, I have a broose on my shoulde, and I am not un-used to recoil, I had a 375 H&H mag, I have a 416 Rem Mag, I hunt ducks with a 10 Ga. but this was way past all that, so the lesson I learned was Don't shoot those reloads, there is nothing I will be hunting that needs that kind of power.

Now a question for those of you who hunt Elk with your 45-70s what is your favorite load, not nessisarily load data, but what gr bullets, and how clost to max, or far away from it do you like?

Thanks
Terry

[Pete44ru]

FWIW, I stopped using anything heavier than a 350gr slug in ANY .45-70, over 10 years ago - and not over 300gr in the lighter versions , like a Handi, a Trapdoor Carbine, or Ruger #3 Carbine.

.

[KirkD]

I once loaded up 40 rounds for my 45-70 of 405 grain cast bullets loaded to the max (around 2,000 fps). After taking about 5 shots, I pulled the bullets of the rest and reloaded them to sane levels.

[Sixgun]

Terry,
The gun you use is the same gun my son uses when we hunt elk each year. The load we both use (I use an original 1886 ExLwt--sometimes other old Winchesters) for the 45-70 is my own cast NEI 375 gr. gas check bullet in front of 40 gr. of RL-7 for 1700. So far he has shot two with this load. The first went about 40 yards and the one this past season dropped like a ton of rocks. I was right next to him. It pretty much "line of sight" to 150 yards.-------Sixgun
2009


dates wrong--should be 11-10

[TMair]

I once loaded up 40 rounds for my 45-70 of 405 grain cast bullets loaded to the max (around 2,000 fps). After taking about 5 shots, I pulled the bullets of the rest and reloaded them to sane levels.

That is how fast mine where supposed to go according to the reloading manuel, I did not take the crony to check, fortunatly I only loaded 20, I have 4 left, and I will probably shoot them just because...well...because I'm an idiot I guess, but not big enough of an idiot to shoot them from the bench.
Last night I loaded some 350Gr hollow points, and NOT to max levels, so I will have to see how they shoot...after my shoulder becomes less tender
Terry

[TMair]

Terry,
The gun you use is the same gun my son uses when we hunt elk each year. The load we both use (I use an original 1886 ExLwt--sometimes other old Winchesters) for the 45-70 is my own cast NEI 375 gr. gas check bullet in front of 40 gr. of RL-7 for 1700. So far he has shot two with this load. The first went about 40 yards and the one this past season dropped like a ton of rocks. I was right next to him. It pretty much "line of sight" to 150 yards.-------Sixgun
2009


dates wrong--should be 11-10

Nice photos, and thanks for the information!!
How does he like his tang sight? I was going to put a tang sight on mine but decided to go with a Wilson receiver sight, I like wraping my thimb around the wrist of the stock.
Terry

[handirifle]

I once shot some similar loads from a Buffalo Classic I had at the time. A 400gr speer bullet, loaded to just a tad over 2000fps. I was shooting at steel plates placed on a hillside, at the local range, that were 250yds out.

The best part was listening to that 400gr slug smack the steel after the 30cal guys got through. Ping ping ping BLAAANG ! There were a few heads turning when those slugs smacked steel

Oh yea, it did smart at the shoulder too. That steel butplate was not real friendly.

[TMair]

I also had two 400 gr. factory loads with me, those felt real comfotable and I had my little Rossi 44 Mag. which felt like a 22 after shooting those reloads
Terry

[Old Ironsights]

My "GP" load is 22gr 2400 over a Lyman 457122 HP "Gould" bullet at (IIRC) 1400fps or so. I see no need to exceed that except for special circumstances.

In that case I have a 425gr Gas Check bullet that I haven't messed with much, but would probably do nicely loaded to absurd levels... but I wouldn't fire more than necessary to have a confident Zero and Kill.

[Mike D.]

My Browning carbine is now a .45-90 and the recoil is a bit much when shooting from the bench. I did the same with my original ELWTD .45-90 last time and my shoulder actually had two bloody spots from shooting MAX loads of 300 grain bullets at nearly 2500 FPS. That load was 52/4198/300 Barnes. The little '86 only weighs 7 3/4 lbs and has a steel shotgun butt plate. I did post some of my loads tested on AmmoGuide. The 250 Barnes TSX is all you need for mule deer, but when going after elk I use the old 350 Hornady RN. 58 grs N-133 will push the 350 out the tube at 2150 FPS.

I like RL7 and XMR2015 for the .45-70. There are a lot of good loads published for every possible powder and bullet weight you desire.

[Don McDowell]

Now a question for those of you who hunt Elk with your 45-70s what is your favorite load, not nessisarily load data, but what gr bullets, and how clost to max, or far away from it do you like?

Thanks
Terry

I always get a kick out of those that forget the 45-70 has made its living since 1873 chunkin a 400 gr bullet at 13-1400 fps. If a person uses the original design bullets whether the 400 or the 500 gr versions at the original ballistics, there isn't a critter on this or most any other continent that can hold one inside with a broadside hit.
The ol bugger just flat works as it was originally designed and built and it always will.

[Sixgun]

Terry.
As far as the sighting system goes for your rifle, the best choice for you would be a solid receiver sight.

We use tang sights because, well, we're weirdo's. We like the way they did it in the old days. For me, a tang sight is quicker to pick up on a target vs. a receiver sight.

Tang sights are more easily knocked out of commission. So what I'm saying is if you are not framiliar with all of the aspects of a tang sight , (including staying conscience of the sight while hunting) a receiver sight would be the way to go! ---------Sixgun

[Rusty]

Yep, a tang sight seems to be right where my hand wants to be.

[Nath]

Stuff a newspaper down your jacket (adjust the thickness) next time.

I never shoot heavy loads (not so much these days) other than standing or sitting with a vertical back etc, ya gotta go with it,,,, or roll with it,,,,

Nath.

[Old Savage]

We loaded some up for a friend at about 1875 fps with the 400. 6' 5", 270 lbs, he took a beating with bruises in not many rounds. Another friend who is 5' 10" and 145 lbs shot them all up - he gives with recoil like the front fork on a dirt bike. That crescent butt plate can be an issue for some. That is what is on this rifle. I have loads that do the same velocity in my Marlin 1895SS with a 350 - no problem. I think a shotgun butt or the like on the 86 would be a big help. The traditional loads those rifles were made for are a much lower power/velocity level.

[KirkD]

I always get a kick out of those that forget the 45-70 has made its living since 1873 chunkin a 400 gr bullet at 13-1400 fps. If a person uses the original design bullets whether the 400 or the 500 gr versions at the original ballistics, there isn't a critter on this or most any other continent that can hold one inside with a broadside hit.
The ol bugger just flat works as it was originally designed and built and it always will.

Don is bang-on right. I agree 100%. I've shot and hunted with the 45-70 for about 20 years now. At first, I would load my cartridges up a bit on the steamy side, but eventually realized there was no point ...... they would plow right through a 200 pound Whitetail deer even at 1,000 fps. My largest was a 300+ pound Whitetail buck. Same story .... the bullet went right through and blasted an 8" hole in the river ice about 3" thick. I was out at the range one day doing some 200 yard shooting at traditional velocities with a 405 grain bullet. My first sighter shot was a bit low. It plowed an 6-foot long furrow in the rock-hard baked clay ground, bounced up and went sideways right through a 2x8 plank, and then buried itself in the berm behind the target. When a fellow loads his 45-70 to traditional BP ballistics, with BP or smokeless, the 45-70 becomes a very enjoyable gun to shoot .... and all my 45-70s, except the very first one which was a modern Marlin 1895, have/had steel buttplates. The 45-70 loaded to sane levels is just a joy to shoot and you are never underpowered, at least not here in North America.

[TMair]

We loaded some up for a friend at about 1875 fps with the 400. 6' 5", 270 lbs, he took a beating with bruises in not many rounds. Another friend who is 5' 10" and 145 lbs shot them all up - he gives with recoil like the front fork on a dirt bike. That crescent butt plate can be an issue for some. That is what is on this rifle. I have loads that do the same velocity in my Marlin 1895SS with a 350 - no problem. I think a shotgun butt or the like on the 86 would be a big help. The traditional loads those rifles were made for are a much lower power/velocity level.

That is my problem, I am not 6'5", but I do weigh 250 lbs and I don't move sitting at the bench, the truth is the loads wernt all that bad from standing where I could roll with the recoil, but dang it you gotta site them in, I will be reducing the load, but I think I am still going to use the 400 gr. bullet, I mean that is the point of the 45-70 right
Terry

[TMair]

I always get a kick out of those that forget the 45-70 has made its living since 1873 chunkin a 400 gr bullet at 13-1400 fps. If a person uses the original design bullets whether the 400 or the 500 gr versions at the original ballistics, there isn't a critter on this or most any other continent that can hold one inside with a broadside hit.
The ol bugger just flat works as it was originally designed and built and it always will.

Don is bang-on right. I agree 100%. I've shot and hunted with the 45-70 for about 20 years now. At first, I would load my cartridges up a bit on the steamy side, but eventually realized there was no point ...... they would plow right through a 200 pound Whitetail deer even at 1,000 fps. My largest was a 300+ pound Whitetail buck. Same story .... the bullet went right through and blasted an 8" hole in the river ice about 3" thick. I was out at the range one day doing some 200 yard shooting at traditional velocities with a 405 grain bullet. My first sighter shot was a bit low. It plowed an 6-foot long furrow in the rock-hard baked clay ground, bounced up and went sideways right through a 2x8 plank, and then buried itself in the berm behind the target. When a fellow loads his 45-70 to traditional BP ballistics, with BP or smokeless, the 45-70 becomes a very enjoyable gun to shoot .... and all my 45-70s, except the very first one which was a modern Marlin 1895, have/had steel buttplates. The 45-70 loaded to sane levels is just a joy to shoot and you are never underpowered, at least not here in North America.

What can I say, in this day and age we are taught from a young age that there is no substitute for speed, of course I am learning the folly of that way of thinking.
Terry

[Old Savage]

One of the most accurate loads in my Marlin 45-70 loadings is 25 gr of 2400 with a 400 Speer. I think the new 2400 kicks the velocity up some though and may have to be reduced a couple of grains but it is a pleasant load to shoot and in the lower range discussed.

[Old Ironsights]

One of the most accurate loads in my Marlin 45-70 loadings is 25 gr of 2400 with a 400 Speer. I think the new 2400 kicks the velocity up some though and may have to be reduced a couple of grains but it is a pleasant load to shoot and in the lower range discussed.

I love 2400...

[Griff]

325 grain & 400 grain at 1450 & 1300 respectfully outta my Browning 1886 rifle. I know I've shot it, after 20 or so rounds... but up to that, no biggie. Even tho' my Sharps is almost 2-½ lbs heavier, has a shotgun butt and usually eats 350 grain pills at almost 1700 fps, they hammer my shoulder about the same... yet, I can shoot the Sharps all day due to that shotgun butt.

[Malamute]

I use 53 grs 3031 with a 400 gr Barnes for a carry load in the mountains. Never chrono'd them, but they reportedly do about 1850 fps. I don't find them unpleasant to shoot, but I don't shoot many of them. Usually seem to shoot 300 gr loads for plinking, but shoot some various cheaper 400's at the same velocity for practice. Havent killed anything but a deer with that load, I usually hunt with a scoped bolt gun.

When shooting off a bench, most seem to lean into the gun, which is the problem, not that you're shooting from a bench. If you get your rest up high enough that your back is straight up, it isnt so bad.

[gglass]

I love power, but I just won't shoot anything that could cause me to develop a flinch. It just isn't worth it.

It is good to learn new things.

[Old Savage]

Mal - wasn't that a Keith load?

Also, turn more sideways to the gun. Learned that watching an old guy sight in his 458 Model 70.

[Malamute]

Yes Fred, Keiths book was where I first heard of it. I've been shooting that load since the early 80's. They have a bit of recoil, but I've made 3 shots on a rolling rock with them. They arent hard to shoot or control.