Lead hardness question

[Rifleman336]

Hi guys,

I recently had a thread about bullet moulds and that brings another question about leading of the bore.

I see confusing threads about lead hardness being to hard or too soft and causing severe leading.

I'm looking to use the cast bullets with a gas check and about 1700+ FPS out of my Marlin 1894CP it has Ballard rifling so I don't have to worry about the micro grove problem.

Can some on set me straight???

[piller]

I think that Mike Rintoul would be the one who can best answer this. Mike?

[Don McDowell]

As long as the bullet is groove diameter or a bit over it should work like a champ, provided the bullet is using a good lube, and you don't have any fouling in the barrel that will grab hunks off the bullet when it goes by. Lyman #2 alloy works well for what you want.

[mikld]

Bullet to groove diameter fit is key to good shooting with lead bullets. Slug the bore and size your cast bullets about .002" larger than the groove diameter...

http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_2-1_Measurin ... nsions.htm

[Griff]

As long as the bullet is groove diameter or a bit over it should work like a champ, provided the bullet is using a good lube, and you don't have any fouling in the barrel that will grab hunks off the bullet when it goes by. Lyman #2 alloy works well for what you want.

Pre-existing copper fouling needs to be cleaned out thoroughly. It don't need to be dinner plate clean, but close enough to it. As said, 1-2 thousandths over groove diameter and gaschecked boolits of straight wheel weights work for me. I use Lyman Alox lube and can push my .30-30 to ~2000fps w/no leading. Adding a lb of linotype to every 6lbs of WWs allows to push 'em faster... but then the lube becomes more critical.

[Catshooter]

Out of my 26 inch 94 in .38-55 I push a Lyman 375449 to just about 1750 or so. Gas checked. I use straight wheel weights. I use this weapon for lever action silhouette and clean it at the end of the season, not during. Cleaning it changes the point of impact a lot. So I clean it about every 500 to 600 rounds. Zero leading. My bullet is about a half thousanth over bore size (.0005). I would like it bigger but that was all I could get out of the mould. It works, so why mess with it further.


Cat

[Tycer]

At 1700 too hard is worse than too soft with an ill fitting bullet. As stated already, bullet fit is key. If the bullet fits the gun, hard or soft matters only in how you intend that projectile to act on the intended target. for hunting, an LBT style bullet is designed to perform well hard whereas a spitzer or hollowpoint would benefit from softness. You can have both if you want to run the bullets fast, you can harden a bullet and then anneal the nose. If you've got wheel weights and a bit of tin and a bag of magnum shot, you are set for about any alloy you want to play with.

[txpete]

I have pushed these hard in my 375 win BB94 and my 375 ouch & ouch.alloy is 9 lb's ww to 1 lb of lino.magma red with a light cote of lee tl over that.I sent some to a friend and he got 15 bhn.(air cooled).

RD 44 cal 265 gr bullet at 2000 fps going into some wet news print.I use 2 heavy cotes of lee tl.the gas check was still on



dans test

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/inde ... 318.0.html

[adirondakjack]

WW, 1-2 oversize, and NRA lube. Go shooting.

[Rifleman336]

I have pushed these hard in my 375 win BB94 and my 375 ouch & ouch.alloy is 9 lb's ww to 1 lb of lino.magma red with a light cote of lee tl over that.I sent some to a friend and he got 15 bhn.(air cooled).

RD 44 cal 265 gr bullet at 2000 fps going into some wet news print.I use 2 heavy cotes of lee tl.the gas check was still on



dans test

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/inde ... 318.0.html

That's what I want to do right their.

I want a 180 gr ish bullet that I can cast 1/3 out of pure lead and then cast the remaining 2/3 out of hard lead with a gas check so as to have soft point bullet for hunting purposes.

Thank for the pics it look like you know what you doing real well.

Rifleman 336

[txpete]

rifleman this should keep you busy for a while

http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

[Tycer]

l

That's what I want to do right their.

I want a 180 gr ish bullet that I can cast 1/3 out of pure lead and then cast the remaining 2/3 out of hard lead with a gas check so as to have soft point bullet for hunting purposes.

Thank for the pics it look like you know what you doing real well.

Rifleman 336[/quote]

You do not need to do a two alloy pour. Just air cooled WW will act just like that. If you want to harden them a bit with lino, they'll still expand like that. If you want a hard-body and soft point, water quench or oven treat them and then set them in a pan of water with the noses out of the water and detemper them with a torch. Just 'til the color changes, not to the point they slump. Let them cool slowly.

These are just air cooled WW with lino and magnum shot.

[txpete]

I didn't add the lino for hardness but to make the alloy flow better with the extra tin in it.the rd mold is a good one but you have to cast it hot and the extra tin does help fill out all those ribs in the bullet.so your right you don't have to but tossing 1/3 of your bullets(culls) back into the pot isn't very productive.
FWIW I have shot several deer with the 375 bullet above and never had to track one and never have recovered a bullet.IMHO it doesn't get any better than that.ymmv.
pete

[Rifleman336]

Well. thanks everybody especially TXPete. I'm trying to get both a smooth feeding (Shape) and good upset.

I learned a old trick (Circa 1890's) by putting piece of thin foil in between the two halves of the nose of the mould, on impact one side or the other will deform and break off causing the bullet to go rear end over tea kettle. Can't wait to try it. I know this is a rifle only performance load, but I got tons of WW lead at the tire places that simplifies things.

Again thank you all,

Rifleman 336

[pdawg.shooter]

For a rifle, you might want to try paper patching. NO leading, the patch will remove copper fouling and polish the bore, Full jacketed velocity, accuracy equal to jacketed and you can use a soft alloy for hunting. Whats not to like?

[Rifleman336]

Yet another great idea, Thanks!!!


Rifleman 336