Rossi Rio Grande in 4570 anyone shooting one yet??

[afish4570]

Wondering if they are scoped easily. Where is the safety and how strong an action do they have.afish4570

[Ji in Hawaii]

Wondering if they are scoped easily. Where is the safety and how strong an action do they have.afish4570

Looks to be a hammer block safety in same location as the Marlin. Looks like all Rio Grandes come with a scope base installed.
I'd personally hold out for the Henry in 45/70 which has a traditional halfcock safety, just can't get use to safeties of any other type.

[Ranch Dog]

I haven't posted here in awhile and this thread is from back in the summer but I purchased the RG4570B from a local dealer a little over a week ago. Stuck a Bushnell Banner 1.5-4.5X32 on it and was zeroed at 100-yards in only seven shots! I put the eighth shot through this spike yesterday evening!



It has a very good blued finish, slick action, and the best trigger feel and pull on any lever gun in my stable. The woodwork is kind of basic but it really suits me and would be very easy take care of any nicks or scratches that come up down the road. It would also be a good candidate for a TruOil refinish should the need arise.

I'm quite the Marlin man so this is really stepping outside of the box for me but I wanted a lighter weight rifle than the 1895 series. I think Rossi has done very well and having been very pleased with a number of Taurus semi-autos and revolvers, I felt confident with my purchase.

The only issue I have with the rifle are concerning the cases which are being scratched as they cycle from tube to chamber. The case rim was being suffering as well but I found a burr on the bolt face which I dressed. That issue is corrected but a complete takedown did not reveal the source of the scratches that are appearing along the length of the case. Came here to read about the 92 DVD as I figured it might contain some tips that would make it worth the purchase.

Bottom-line is that I'm very pleased with the Rio Grande 45-70!

[piller]

Sounds like the Rio Grande is worth looking at. I have a Marlin Guide Gun which I really like, but why limit myself to one gun of any caliber?

[Ranch Dog]

I thought I would post a couple of more pictures. My rifle looks exactly like the rifle image on the RossiUSA web site.





Here is the sight in target I used.



I had two WW factory rounds which I shot at 50-yards after bore sighting the scope. I made an elevation adjustment and shot the five rounds of ammo I had for my Guide Gun. It is 52.5-grains of Benchmark with my TLC460-350-RF bullet which pressure tested at 30.0K PSI in my Guide Gun. I felt comfortable with the load after taking some barrel measurements/chamber impression and comparing them with the trace data I've collected in the 1895s. Eventually, I suspect that I will be shooting this rifle at 35.0K PSI but I'm going to motor along at 30.0K PSI while I pressure trace Benchmark, BL-C(2), H322, H335, H4198, H4895, Leverevolution, and Varget.

As far as the scratches I mentioned, I would think that it is caused by the carrier or chamber mouth. The carrier seems slick.

[Old Savage]

Thanks for that report. Looks like a good working gun.

BTW the last new Marlin 45-70 I saw at The Gun Shop is one I would buy.

[Ji in Hawaii]

Does the Rio Grande have a halfcock too besides the hammer block safety like the Marlins do?
I wonder if the Beartooth saddle ring/safety blockout would fit the Rio Grande.
http://shop.beartoothmercantile.com/Com ... 943333.htm

[Chas.]

I've never seen a Rio Grande live and up close. Is it a Marlin 336 type action?

[O.S.O.K.]

Interesting. Before this thread and Ranchdog's post... I wasn't even a little interested in the Rossi 336 clones... but I have to admit I'm more interested now.

Chiappa is making an 1886 too which looks interesting. I'd probably be more interested in one of those...

Ranchdog, I do have to wonder about your weight comment in regards to the 1895 Marlin - mine are very light considering the caliber they're chambered for. I'm not sure I'd want anything lighter!

[Leverdude]

I've never seen a Rio Grande live and up close. Is it a Marlin 336 type action?

Pretty much a clone. From what I can see they changed the shape of the trigger plate & lever a little but thats about it. Its worth noteing that the Henry centerfires are Marlin actions for the most part too, though they made more cosmetic changes than Rossi did.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I can see why Marlin sold out while the gettin' was good. They must have known that Rossi was about to plow them under.

[1894c]

I can see why Marlin sold out while the gettin' was good. They must have known that Rossi was about to plow them under.

Kind-of make you wonder--I looked at the Rossi too and was impressed--tempted, but I want to wait to see how marlin does in the future... :)

[Ranch Dog]

Sorry about the delay in getting back, changed my email address in my profile and had to wait for admin to reinstate my account. Anyway...

Does the Rio Grande have a halfcock too besides the hammer block safety like the Marlins do?
I wonder if the Beartooth saddle ring/safety blockout would fit the Rio Grande.

Yes, the RG has the halfcock hammer and a safety block. I'm a guy, that actually uses and likes the block; unloading the rifle, getting into and out of tree stands and tower blinds, etc. It looks the same but there might be small dimensional changes that wouldn't allow it. Speaking of the hammer. One comment I read on line is was that the traditional hammer spur could not be used. What Rossi did was to make the hammer pad wider so you actually do not need the spur.

I've never seen a Rio Grande live and up close. Is it a Marlin 336 type action?

It is a 336 clone. It is not a 1895 clone.

Ranchdog, I do have to wonder about your weight comment in regards to the 1895 Marlin - mine are very light considering the caliber they're chambered for. I'm not sure I'd want anything lighter!

The weight is exactly why I was interested in the rifle. I'm looking for a "Ranch Carry" big bore and the 1895 series are too heavy in my opinion. The rifle is a light carbine, weighing in at 6# 3 oz. Once the sights were removed and my Bushnell Banner 1.5-4.5X32 mounted, 6# 14 oz. Perfect, exactly why I was interested in the rifle. Less sights and the same scope, my "G" (Guide Gun) weighs 7# 14 oz. and my "MR" (1895 450 Marlin with 22" barrel) 8# 5 oz. Honestly, I'm tired of lugging the Marlin Big Bores around (I have eight of them altogether).

I've been toting it around daily since I've bought it and it is a pleasure to carry. When I shot the spike, I did not even notice the recoil.

[6pt-sika]

Does the Rio Grande have a halfcock too besides the hammer block safety like the Marlins do?
I wonder if the Beartooth saddle ring/safety blockout would fit the Rio Grande.
http://shop.beartoothmercantile.com/Com ... 943333.htm

I was glad to this and the link !

I just ordered one without the ring to use on my circa 2001 Marlin 444

[Hagler]

Ranch Dog,

I am not following your commentary about the Rio Grande's hammer spur. It clearly has a spur on its hammer, and it looks exactly like it should. Could you please elaborate?

Shawn

[Ranch Dog]

Ranch Dog,

I am not following your commentary about the Rio Grande's hammer spur. It clearly has a spur on its hammer, and it looks exactly like it should. Could you please elaborate?

Shawn

Sorry Shawn, I worded that wrong. I meant to say that the fellow complained that he could not find an extension that would fit the spur. You really don't need one as this is an part that is different from the Marlin. The entire hammer assembly is wider, as is the spur. The assembly is injection molded which makes it lighter.



Here is a comparison of some of the weights against a 336 (Glenfield 30)







This picture, for me, shows the biggest difference between my Marlins and the RG.



The round on the left is loaded specifically for this rifle, 2.420" OAL. The one on the right is for my "G" with an OAL of 2.550", both loaded rounds using the bullet I designed for the 1895. The RG's brass had to be trimmed back to accommodiate the oversize cast bullet because the RG's chamber is cut to the SAAMI spec without all the airspace that Marlin has been cutting in their chambers.

Let me offer some details of the SAAMI spec, the Marlin cut and then the RG cut.

SAAMI lists the following:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.011" (+/- .015)/.465" (+/- .002)
Bore: .457" (+/- .002)
Groove: .450 (+/- .002)
Step: .069" at 12°45'.There is no throat,lead, or freebore.

The 1895G, from my chamber impressions:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.100" (+.089" vs. SAAMI)/.483" (+.018" vs. SAAMI)
Groove: .457"
Bore: .450
Step: This is where the Marlin really varies from SAAMI. The step is .050" at 12°79' but then they throw in .10" of freebore and another .1451" of throat at 1°5'. for a total length of .745" (+.676" vs. SAAMI). Because of the start diameter, this creates a huge gap of airspace around a SAAMI spec bullet that must be filled with ogive length and additional diameter, hence my .460" bullets.

The RG45-70, from my chamber impressions:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.102" (+.002" vs. SAAMI)/.463" (-.02" vs. SAAMI)
Groove: .457"
Bore: .445" (.005" deeper cut)
Step: .073 at 4°70' (+.676" vs. SAAMI)

This said, the ammunition I have was custom made to fit the oversized Marlin chamber. It does not fit well and must be forced in the chamber. For cast bullet shooting this cartridge needs a .458" or .459" at the greatest. Heavy bullets will need to have the brass trimmed to meet the chamber requirements. The SAAMI spec is based on 300-grain or 405-grain bullet. The two rounds of factory ammo I had on hand, WW 300-grain JHP, went from tube to chamber and out like poop through a goose.

Cast shooters should be extremely pleased with the chamber cut. What this means is that you can actually buy the typical cataloged mold and it is going to work and work well. If Rossi started to clone the Marlin lineup, my cast bullet business would be in trouble as I have bullets cut because a manufactured ventured from the spec.

On another note, the action on this rifle is extremely smooth except at the point that the lever starts to close moving the bolt back against the upper radius of the hammer. There is a bit of a hang up there that takes some effort to get across. The hammer actually moves up ever so slightly as it starts to rotate with the bolts forward movement exerting an upward pressure against the lower surface of the bolt. With the bolt in this fully aft and unsupported position it is binding ever so slightly as it tries to achieve alignment with the matching surfaces of the receiver. That concerns me for a couple of reasons that I will get into a little later today. I also have quite a few innards pictures that I would like to comment on but it is time to take my granddaughter to school. I will leave you with this, I remain very happy with the Rossi offering as it is what a carbine should be, lightweight and easy on the carry.

[Redman2006]

Ranch Dog,

I am not following your commentary about the Rio Grande's hammer spur. It clearly has a spur on its hammer, and it looks exactly like it should. Could you please elaborate?

Shawn

Sorry Shawn, I worded that wrong. I meant to say that the fellow complained that he could not find an extension that would fit the spur. You really don't need one as this is an part that is different from the Marlin. The entire hammer assembly is wider, as is the spur. The assembly is injection molded which makes it lighter.



Here is a comparison of some of the weights against a 336 (Glenfield 30)







This picture, for me, shows the biggest difference between my Marlins and the RG.



The round on the left is loaded specifically for this rifle, 2.420" OAL. The one on the right is for my "G" with an OAL of 2.550", both loaded rounds using the bullet I designed for the 1895. The RG's brass had to be trimmed back to accommodiate the oversize cast bullet because the RG's chamber is cut to the SAAMI spec without all the airspace that Marlin has been cutting in their chambers.

Let me offer some details of the SAAMI spec, the Marlin cut and then the RG cut.

SAAMI lists the following:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.011" (+/- .015)/.465" (+/- .002)
Bore: .457" (+/- .002)
Groove: .450 (+/- .002)
Step: .069" at 12°45'.There is no throat,lead, or freebore.

The 1895G, from my chamber impressions:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.100" (+.089" vs. SAAMI)/.483" (+.018" vs. SAAMI)
Groove: .457"
Bore: .450
Step: This is where the Marlin really varies from SAAMI. The step is .050" at 12°79' but then they throw in .10" of freebore and another .1451" of throat at 1°5'. for a total length of .745" (+.676" vs. SAAMI). Because of the start diameter, this creates a huge gap of airspace around a SAAMI spec bullet that must be filled with ogive length and additional diameter, hence my .460" bullets.

The RG45-70, from my chamber impressions:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.102" (+.002" vs. SAAMI)/.463" (-.02" vs. SAAMI)
Groove: .457"
Bore: .445" (.005" deeper cut)
Step: .073 at 4°70' (+.676" vs. SAAMI)

This said, the ammunition I have was custom made to fit the oversized Marlin chamber. It does not fit well and must be forced in the chamber. For cast bullet shooting this cartridge needs a .458" or .459" at the greatest. Heavy bullets will need to have the brass trimmed to meet the chamber requirements. The SAAMI spec is based on 300-grain or 405-grain bullet. The two rounds of factory ammo I had on hand, WW 300-grain JHP, went from tube to chamber and out like poop through a goose.

Cast shooters should be extremely pleased with the chamber cut. What this means is that you can actually buy the typical cataloged mold and it is going to work and work well. If Rossi started to clone the Marlin lineup, my cast bullet business would be in trouble as I have bullets cut because a manufactured ventured from the spec.

On another note, the action on this rifle is extremely smooth except at the point that the lever starts to close moving the bolt back against the upper radius of the hammer. There is a bit of a hang up there that takes some effort to get across. The hammer actually moves up ever so slightly as it starts to rotate with the bolts forward movement exerting an upward pressure against the lower surface of the bolt. With the bolt in this fully aft and unsupported position it is binding ever so slightly as it tries to achieve alignment with the matching surfaces of the receiver. That concerns me for a couple of reasons that I will get into a little later today. I also have quite a few innards pictures that I would like to comment on but it is time to take my granddaughter to school. I will leave you with this, I remain very happy with the Rossi offering as it is what a carbine should be, lightweight and easy on the carry.

How are you crimping the shorter brass? I have thrown away all my Hornaday Leverevolution brass because it is short. It sounds like it would be just the ticket for you to use. My dies (RCBS) hit the shell plate holder well before engaging the crimp shoulder.

Thanks for the help.
Jeff

[Ranch Dog]

How are you crimping the shorter brass? I have thrown away all my Hornaday Leverevolution brass because it is short. It sounds like it would be just the ticket for you to use. My dies (RCBS) hit the shell plate holder well before engaging the crimp shoulder.

Thanks for the help.
Jeff

I'm using the Lee Factory Crimp Die. The only reason I need to shorten the brass is to match the crimp groove. The only reason I'm have trouble matching the crimp groove is that I'm using a .460" bullet instead of a .458" or .459" bullet. Those sizing dies are on the way but with the smaller diameter bullet I will be able to seat the bullet further forward.

[Ranch Dog]

I took the rifle down, a number of times to try to find out what is scratching the cartridges.



I did a bit of polishing on the various components inside the receiver but did not find the source of the problem as the cartridges are still being scratched.

With the 45-70, I do expect to see recoil generated wear on the magazine tube at the cutout where the retaining screw passes between the barrel and the tube. Both barrel and tube have the recess but the tube is what will take a lick'n. Marlin learned this with the early 444 and moved away from the band to an end cap on the forearm. JES Reboring will rebore/rechamber any Marlin 336 to 444 Marlin but recommends only models with the forearm cap be used.



You can see a light break in the tube on my rifle, not really a problem as I have some early 444s that look like this but it has been my experience that the cutout must be perfectly aligned to minimize wear. I check this on any 336 that comes into my possession and most need the base of the tube trimmed to bring them into alignment. There is no cure for a tube that is too short. Here is the mismatch on the Rossi.



Filing the base of the tube to slowly bring the cutouts into alignment.



Rossi has seemed to make a number of improvements to small parts. All the parts are made by BrazTech, nothing come from outside of the Company. For instance only solid pins are used, no roll pins. One neat change is on the bolt is that the rear firing retaining pin, a roll pin on the 336, has been changed to a threaded Allen plug. That is really neat.



Back to the scratches on the case. It relates to what I mentioned in my last post concerning the aft portion of the bolt as it starts it forward movement across the upper radius of the hammer. The aft portion of the bolt is pressed up and in response the forward portion to the bolt is pressed down against the carrier. This pressure seems to cause the carrier to bind as it tries to drop. The cartridge is caught in the middle. My question for the Rossi guys is could the main spring be causing this unnecessary pressure? Is this the principle issue with the '92, and an issue that Steve Gunz kit solves?

This pressure on the bolt also causes me concern with the wear on the lever. Back to the image in last post.



Notice that the portion that passes through the bolt is quite a bit lighter than a 336. The only effort in another wise smooth action is the effort to get the bolt beyond mainspring pressure but that effort might ultimately cause wear on this portion of the lever. Your comments are appreciated? I do not know Nate Kiowa Jones but if he wasn't a six hour drive from me I would have already been knocking at his shop door as I've not been able to find any comments in detail about the RG series yet, only the '92.

Please also note that this is not an expression of dissatisfaction with the firearm, Rossi has sold me as the RG is exactly what I hoped it would be.

[Ranch Dog]

I worked with the rifle a little bit more this evening, just a few minutes and reference my closing comments in the above post, I think it is the aft, bottom (base) for the bolt causing the hang up. Not the mainspring or anything else. Again, that little bit of delay in the cycle and the forces applied to the various parts at that particular moment seems to because the case scratches and I suspect, wear. A picture is worth a thousand words, or so it is said.





The second picture shows the shape of the lower portion of the bolt that cocks the hammer but that is what hangs up on the way back. Any suggestions for dealing with this? I'm pondering just reshaping it by hand with a file so it passes back over the hammer better.



What I'm thing is a flatter surface underside as it is the bulge below the "red line" that is causing the bolt to bind against the hammer. This "cut" would not effect the action of the bolt against hammer, cocking, as nothing has changed. I tie wrapped the hammer back slightly lower than the contact on the return, still bumping with aft movement and the action is very slick, with not a scratch on a case as it empties the tube.

Come on Rossi guys, any thoughts or suggestions?

[Hagler]

Ranch Dog,

Thanks for your clarification of the hammer spur comment.

Shawn

[pricedo]

I can see why Marlin sold out while the gettin' was good. They must have known that Rossi was about to plow them under.

Kind-of make you wonder--I looked at the Rossi too and was impressed--tempted, but I want to wait to see how marlin does in the future...

The Cereberus/Remington takeover was the kiss of death for Marlin.

The garbage coming out of the new factory has sent the Marlin trademark down the toilette bowl.

Purchased a new Rossi Rio Grande in .30-30 WCF today.

Rossi is the "Ruger of lever actions" & have learned as has Savage that the paradigm for success in a depressed economy is to make products that are basic with no frills, tough, good & cheap.

Like Winchester, Marlin has learned that it takes years to build a reputation & only weeks & months to destroy one & if you screw customers by selling them junk your customer base will disappear like a shadow in a floodlight.

[Ranch Dog]

The Cereberus/Remington takeover was the kiss of death for Marlin.

The garbage coming out of the new factory has sent the Marlin trademark down the toilette bowl.

Purchased a new Rossi Rio Grande in .30-30 WCF today.

Rossi is the "Ruger of lever actions" & have learned as has Savage that the paradigm for success in a depressed economy is to make products that are basic with no frills, tough, good & cheap.

Like Winchester, Marlin has learned that it takes years to build a reputation & only weeks & months to destroy one & if you screw customers by selling them junk your customer base will disappear like a shadow in a floodlight.

Pretty much how I see it. I'm going to buy new leverguns every year. I haven't seen any coming out of Marlin in the last year that I would buy.

pricedo, could you do me a favor? Use your calipers and tell me the diameter of the 30-30's barrel at the muzzle. I went to the store today to buy another Rio Grande, a 30-30, but they were sold out. If it is large enough, I want to send it immediately off to have rebored/rechambered into a 38-55 Win but need to make sure it has enough meat at the end of the barrel.

[Sarge]

Fantastic bunch of dimensional info, pics, etc. For anybody considering the Rio, this thread is a gold mine.

[pricedo]

The Cereberus/Remington takeover was the kiss of death for Marlin.

The garbage coming out of the new factory has sent the Marlin trademark down the toilette bowl.

Purchased a new Rossi Rio Grande in .30-30 WCF today.

Rossi is the "Ruger of lever actions" & have learned as has Savage that the paradigm for success in a depressed economy is to make products that are basic with no frills, tough, good & cheap.

Like Winchester, Marlin has learned that it takes years to build a reputation & only weeks & months to destroy one & if you screw customers by selling them junk your customer base will disappear like a shadow in a floodlight.

Pretty much how I see it. I'm going to buy new leverguns every year. I haven't seen any coming out of Marlin in the last year that I would buy.

pricedo, could you do me a favor? Use your calipers and tell me the diameter of the 30-30's barrel at the muzzle. I went to the store today to buy another Rio Grande, a 30-30, but they were sold out. If it is large enough, I want to send it immediately off to have rebored/rechambered into a 38-55 Win but need to make sure it has enough meat at the end of the barrel.

Ranch Dog: My brother-in-law has borrowed the gun for a few days to do some shooting at his local range with view to buying one if he decides he likes it. When I get it back I'll measure the barrel OD at the muzzle & get back to you.

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks pricedo. Going looking tomorrow as well. I think the Rio Grande was misnamed. It should have been called the Ranch Hand. I've been carrying is solid since I bought it, everyday. I had to walk to the back corner of a pasture today, I pretty good hike through some heavy cat claw and prickly pear. I kept thinking how balanced and easy to carry the rifle is.

As follow up. I did take a file to the underside of the bolt, reference my last picture post. I decided to maintain the existing angle for a couple of strokes. I did remove a fine layer of steel but it appears to have eliminated the problem cited in my post. This rifle is now slicker than snot!

[pricedo]

Thanks pricedo. Going looking tomorrow as well. I think the Rio Grande was misnamed. It should have been called the Ranch Hand. I've been carrying is solid since I bought it, everyday. I had to walk to the back corner of a pasture today, I pretty good hike through some heavy cat claw and prickly pear. I kept thinking how balanced and easy to carry the rifle is.

As follow up. I did take a file to the underside of the bolt, reference my last picture post. I decided to maintain the existing angle for a couple of strokes. I did remove a fine layer of steel but it appears to have eliminated the problem cited in my post. This rifle is now slicker than snot!

Follow the URL below for a decent write up on the Rossi Rio Grande in .30-30 WCF & they mention "The 20-inch barrel measures 0.65-inch at the muzzle and has six-groove rifling with a twist rate of 1:10 inches" as well as some other very useful information about the gun..

http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/05/03 ... on_050311/

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks for the find!

[pricedo]

Thanks for the find!

You're welcome.

This is the best write-up I've seen on the Rio Grande in .30-30 WCF.

It even has a range report even though the author is not giving the recipe for his hand loads.

The Hornady 8th Edition of their reloading manual gives some recipes for their new 160 grain FTX bullet using the new LeveRevolution powder that Hodgdon just released as a canister powder available to reloaders.

The new powder pushes the 160 grain slug to 2300 fps.

Pretty good for the ole "Thutty-Thutty".

[Swampman]

I'd consider one because they are cheap and light. The Henry cost twice as much. I think there is little chance of Marlin being "Plowed Under."

[pricedo]

Thanks pricedo. Going looking tomorrow as well. I think the Rio Grande was misnamed. It should have been called the Ranch Hand. I've been carrying is solid since I bought it, everyday. I had to walk to the back corner of a pasture today, I pretty good hike through some heavy cat claw and prickly pear. I kept thinking how balanced and easy to carry the rifle is.

As follow up. I did take a file to the underside of the bolt, reference my last picture post. I decided to maintain the existing angle for a couple of strokes. I did remove a fine layer of steel but it appears to have eliminated the problem cited in my post. This rifle is now slicker than snot!

RD:

Thanks for bird dogging the solution for the scratched case problem.
I've been having problems with scratched cases being ejected from my .30-30 WCF version of the Rio Grande.
I'm going to file or grind a little metal off the underside of the bolt to see if it solves the problem with my gun.
Hope somebody communicates this new info to Rossi so the design specs can be modified.
Rossi completely redesigned the inadequate (wouldn't stand up to the .454s recoil) magazine tube assembly in their model 92 in .454 Casull in response to reported complaints from customers about pins shearing and the magazine tube falling off after only a few shots.
In light of the previous emboldened statement I'm wondering how that "skinny minny" tube magazine retaining pin in the Rio Grande is going to hold up to the recoil of "vigorous" .45-70 loads. I'm not anticipating any problems with tube magazine integrity considering the almost non-existent recoil of the .30-30 WCF cartridge.
The first owners of any new model gun are always stuck with the dubious "privilege" of being the "design glitch fixers".

[COSteve]

I noted a similar slight binding issue on both my Rossi M92s and found that smoothing the aft portion of the bolt a bit where it contacts the hammer really made a big difference. As you say, once the hammer bind is eliminated, the action is really smooth.

[pricedo]

Rossi took the 100 year old John Browning model 92 design and extrapolated it into the 21st century without problems........ until the .454 Casull model came along that is.

The inherent 92 design was built to fire low recoiling ballistic featherweights like the .32-20 & .44-40.

The advent of the Rossi 92/.454 brought to light "congenital" weaknesses in the model 92 tube magazine design that became apparent under the vicious recoil of the full powered .454 Casull loads necessitating the complete redesign of the tube magazine assembly to the current double threaded configuration used in the Braztech R92 in .454 Casull.

The Rossi Rio Grande is in a similar stage of development. No problems have ensued with the light recoiling .30-30 WCF version as this is the power level of cartridge the model 336 was designed to handle.

I don't believe there has been a 336 made in .45-70 caliber until the Rio Grande came along.............please correct me if I'm wrong.

Is the tube magazine in the Rio Grande threaded into the receiver or does it just sit there restrained from lateral movement by the skimpy little pin at the muzzle end of the barrel??

I am concerned that the "skinny minny" retaining pin holding the tube magazine in place in the .45-70 version of the Rio Grande will fail under the recoil of full power loads in the long haul like its counterpart did in the first run of Rossi 92/.454s and shooters will find the magazines of their guns on the ground at their feet.

Something to think about & watch for.

** I have to confess that the above is the reason I didn't buy a Rossi Rio Grande in .45-70 right off the bat but chose the .30-30 WCF model instead. I'll let you guys be the canaries in the coal mine in regards to the .45-70 version until there is a sufficient backlog of field experience with the gun to predict how it is going to handle the heavy .45-70 recoil.

[6pt-sika]

Rossi took the 100 year old John Browning model 92 design and extrapolated it into the 21st century without problems........ until the .454 Casull model came along that is.

Winchester was supposed to bring the 480 Ruger out in the 94 they advertised it for two years in their catalogs and none ever saw a dealers rack . I know this because I called them both years looking for one . Later Marlin was supposedly bringing the 1895RL out in 480/475 and they never did and of course I was after them the whole time to get one .
During the entire time I had a Ruger Super Redhawk or TWO chambered for the 480 and of course dies , brass and jacketed bullets . When the mention of a rifle coming out in the cartridge surfaced I got all the molds I could find barring true custom ones of course .

After I stock piled all this stuff I find out Marlin has deep sixed the idea of building the rifle . So I'm looking at Jerry's catalog one day and see the Puma/Rossi 92 in 480 Ruger and order one sight unseen . When the "rifle" came in I payed for it and took it home . I played with it in the house for maybe 30 minutes , wiped it off and put it in the back of the safe . It stayed there for two years and then I sold/traded it to someone on this forum . They liked it , I never cared for it hence the reason it was still NIB when I got rid of it .
And so it goes !

[pricedo]

6pt-sika:

I think you missed out on a helluva fine levergun by pre-judging it.

You probably listened to the plethora of Rossi bashers many (probably most) of whom have never held a Rossi rifle in their hands.

I have nothing but good things to say about my 5 Rossi firearms.

Every new model of gun goes through the "ironing the bugs out" stage because some problems don't become apparent until the gun has been in use for a while. The Rossi Rio Grande won't be any different.

Things are off to a good start because Rossi had a great platform to copy......the Marlin 336.

[6pt-sika]

6pt-sika:

I think you missed out on a helluva fine levergun by pre-judging it.

You probably listened to the plethora of Rossi bashers many (probably most) of whom have never held a Rossi rifle in their hands.

Do not "assume" who or what made me wanna get rid of that thing !

The gun that I had looked cheap in my eyes !

When I say I don't like or care for something take it at face value .

[olyinaz]

From that Shooting Times article: "The lines of the Rio Grande’s action are vaguely reminiscent of Marlin and other lever-action rifles of the 19th century."

"Vaguely??" LOL!!

Oly

[pricedo]

6pt-sika:

I think you missed out on a helluva fine levergun by pre-judging it.

You probably listened to the plethora of Rossi bashers many (probably most) of whom have never held a Rossi rifle in their hands.

Do not "assume" who or what made me wanna get rid of that thing !

The gun that I had looked cheap in my eyes !

When I say I don't like or care for something take it at face value .

The Rossis have a utilitarian attractiveness about them but purty they ain't.

We all choose guns for our own reasons.

My main reasons are purely functional........accuracy, dependability & portability (weight & size) because all my guns work for a living....no wallflowers.

Different strokes...

[Old Savage]

The various new Marlin 1895s and 444s are built on 336 actions.

[pricedo]

The various new Marlin 1895s and 444s are built on 336 actions.

I have the feeling that a Rio Grande in .45-70 will find its way into one of my gun cabinets before too long.

My Rio Grande in .30-30 WCF has a crisp, creep free trigger that is the best I've ever seen in a levergun.

[pricedo]

I find the ejection spring very weak in my .30-30 WCF version of the Rossi Rio Grande.

I don't think ejecting empty fired cases would be a problem.

Unfired PSP 160 grain Hornady LeveRevolution FTX cartridges are ejected very weakly & barely clear the ejection port.

Unfired RN 170 grain WW Power Point rounds won't even clear the ejection port & fall back into the action & jam when the action is cycled.

[odiez1]

Hello there, this is my first posting to this board!
I've joined just for this particular thread, because I've got the Rio Grande in 45-70 also. And just like as was pointed out earlier, mine would stick up on the return stroke on that small bulge on the bottom of the bolt.
I opted to file down the top of the hammer rather than the bottom of the bolt because the cost of a replacement hammer will be much less than replacing the bolt. The result has been to my liking, it is much smother than originally. I'd like to thank the poster for all the fine photos and the thorough break down.

Besides the already posted issues, I've found that:
-The action doesn't work when held upside down.
-Sometimes when loading the magazine, when the cartridge 'pops' into place, it will release the lever and eject/ load the ammo.
-Occasionally jams the block/gate into the bolt, necessitating removing the lever to unjam the block to get the action going again. This may be due to unburnt powder in the action, currently I'm using IMR 3031 @ 49gr with 405gr cast lead.

All in all I love the gun though, I managed to hit a bulls eye @ 100 yards with the stock open sights set on the lowest setting. And it gets comments from the shooters next to me about the loudness of it, and the flame out the barrel. Good fun!

My photos.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/71264013@N03/
Thanks.

[pricedo]

Hello there, this is my first posting to this board!
I've joined just for this particular thread, because I've got the Rio Grande in 45-70 also. And just like as was pointed out earlier, mine would stick up on the return stroke on that small bulge on the bottom of the bolt.
I opted to file down the top of the hammer rather than the bottom of the bolt because the cost of a replacement hammer will be much less than replacing the bolt. The result has been to my liking, it is much smother than originally. I'd like to thank the poster for all the fine photos and the thorough break down.

Besides the already posted issues, I've found that:
-The action doesn't work when held upside down.
-Sometimes when loading the magazine, when the cartridge 'pops' into place, it will release the lever and eject/ load the ammo.
-Occasionally jams the block/gate into the bolt, necessitating removing the lever to unjam the block to get the action going again. This may be due to unburnt powder in the action, currently I'm using IMR 3031 @ 49gr with 405gr cast lead.

All in all I love the gun though, I managed to hit a bulls eye @ 100 yards with the stock open sights set on the lowest setting. And it gets comments from the shooters next to me about the loudness of it, and the flame out the barrel. Good fun!

My photos.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/71264013@N03/
Thanks.

[pricedo]

Hello there, this is my first posting to this board!
I've joined just for this particular thread, because I've got the Rio Grande in 45-70 also. And just like as was pointed out earlier, mine would stick up on the return stroke on that small bulge on the bottom of the bolt.
I opted to file down the top of the hammer rather than the bottom of the bolt because the cost of a replacement hammer will be much less than replacing the bolt. The result has been to my liking, it is much smother than originally. I'd like to thank the poster for all the fine photos and the thorough break down.

That's what I was thinking.

All things being equal you modify the least expensive part.

If you botched the bolt modification you might have a hard time getting a new bolt whereas hammers are usually generic & much easier to get/repair.

You don't have to remove much metal to make the "bump" go away.

Were you having a problem with case scratching before you modified the hammer?

Besides the already posted issues, I've found that:
-The action doesn't work when held upside down.

The same with my RG in .30-30 WCF. It locks right up if held upside down.

-Sometimes when loading the magazine, when the cartridge 'pops' into place, it will release the lever and eject/ load the ammo.
-Occasionally jams the block/gate into the bolt, necessitating removing the lever to unjam the block to get the action going again. This may be due to unburnt powder in the action, currently I'm using IMR 3031 @ 49gr with 405gr cast lead.

Haven't had those problems in my .30-30 version - lucky I guess

All in all I love the gun though, I managed to hit a bulls eye @ 100 yards with the stock open sights set on the lowest setting. And it gets comments from the shooters next to me about the loudness of it, and the flame out the barrel. Good fun!

I mounted a 1.75-4x40mm Bushnell Trophy scope using Warne QD rings and can take the scope off without tools in seconds. The scope returns to zero faithfully when remounted on the gun which also takes only seconds without tools.

The best of both worlds.

My photos.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/71264013@N03/
Thanks.

[odiez1]

Were you having a problem with case scratching before you modified the hammer?


I mounted a 1.75-4x40mm Bushnell Trophy scope using Warne QD rings and can take the scope off without tools in seconds. The scope returns to zero faithfully when remounted on the gun which also takes only seconds without tools.

The best of both worlds.

I am still having problems with the scratching. I'm also noticing dents on the leading edge, the edge facing loading end of the magazine, of the opposite end of the lever. There is also a noticeable brass etched line where the new cartridge come out of the tube into the carrier area. It's like the rim of each cartridge scrapes along the concave part of the opposite end of the lever. Sorry, I can't recall the actual names of the parts.. I'm only an amateur..
Maybe those dents have something to do with the action 'popping' open when loading? I'll get some pictures this evening.

I'm gonna check out those Warne QD rings. Thanks!

On the topic of the grinding.. I blocked off access to all the areas of the action with paper towels before grinding on it, so I could check the clearance as I went without disassembling, or getting metal filings in it. I used an orange grinding bit on a Dremel tool for the bulk of the metal removal. When it got near where I wanted it, I used a kind of rubbery disk, a Dremel part again, but rubbed it by hand and it polished it to an almost mirror like finish. It's not blued on the top now, but it was getting normal wear marks anyway... It's MUCH better now.

Cheers!

[pricedo]

What's the difference between a $400 Rossi and say a $1500 Miroku "Winchester" levergun besides the money?

After you buy the "Japchester" you take it out of the box pick up a box of ammo at Walmart on the way to the range & go shooting.

Taking a Rossi out of the box is more often
than not just the start of the work it'll take to make the gun shootable.

The first task is usually scrubbing the cosmoline, grit, machine cuttings & rust of the surface of the gun & out of the action, barrel & magazine tube.

Sometimes you get a good gun that doesn't require much in the way of small modifications, grinding, filing, polishing, fitting to get it to "run" properly.........and SOMETIMES YOU DON'T.

It's gonna take a little elbow grease & hands on to get our Rio Grandes ready for the range & hunting fields.

But speaking as a long time Rossi owner........What else is new?

[6pt-sika]

What's the difference between a $400 Rossi and say a $1500 Miroku "Winchester" levergun besides the money?

After you buy the "Japchester" you take it out of the box pick up a box of ammo at Walmart on the way to the range & go shooting.

Taking a Rossi out of the box is more often
than not just the start of the work it'll take to make the gun shootable.

The first task is usually scrubbing the cosmoline, grit, machine cuttings & rust of the surface of the gun & out of the action, barrel & magazine tube.

Sometimes you get a good gun that doesn't require much in the way of small modifications, grinding, filing, polishing, fitting to get it to "run" properly.........and SOMETIMES YOU DON'T.

It's gonna take a little elbow grease & hands on to get our Rio Grandes ready for the range & hunting fields.

But speaking as a long time Rossi owner........What else is new?;)

.

Both the Japanese WInny and the South American gun will depreciatte as soon as they leave the store .

So thats a contributing factor to me buying older shall we say "usually better quality" guns . Most times the depreciation is already out of them provided I take reasonable care .

Also older (1890's to1920's) Marlin's and Remington's should appreciatte in value .

That Puma/Rossi 480 I had would never appreciatte and the old black stock looked like a club !

You'll not hear me try and get a customer to buy a new Marlington , Winchester or most likely a Rossi .
Most of the folks that come in the shop and are what I call friends I suggest they get older used rifles and usually they take my advice .

Now I will say the pics RD posted of his 45-70 look pretty good . And I hope they work for those that get them . But II'm afraid I'll never be an advocate for that company .

[pricedo]

Rossi guns remind me of the old Norton motorcycles like the ones I owned way back in the 60s...........you were always tinkering with this or that & adjusting something or other.

If you wanted a bike to just get on and ride you bought a Harley or a Honda.

If you don't like tinkering &/or you're not handy with your hands and tools you'd better stick to the take out of the box and shoot brands like Ruger & Savage or older JM Marlins & Remingtons.

Rossis are for tinkerers & "handy Andys" who don't mind adjusting & fixing stuff.

[pricedo]

I noted a similar slight binding issue on both my Rossi M92s and found that smoothing the aft portion of the bolt a bit where it contacts the hammer really made a big difference. As you say, once the hammer bind is eliminated, the action is really smooth.

Apparently the amount of metal that needs to be shaved off is minimal.

I'm thinking flat knife sharpening stones.

A coarser sided stone to remove the metal and a fine grained stone do the polishing.

There is a school of thought that believes the top of the hammer should be shaved instead of the bolt??

Any opinions?

Opinions based on experience modifying this model would be preferable.

[pricedo]

That Puma/Rossi 480 I had would never appreciatte and the old black stock looked like a club!

It is a club!!........ to kill the charging bear when the gun fails!

You should have kept that 480 ........it was a masterpiece.......a ballistic DaVinci.

pricedo - motto - "Have Rossi will travel"