Hamer article; which rifle used to kill Barrow/Parker?

[C. Cash]

In the new American Rifleman is a nice article by Sheriff by Jim Wilson. With all of the EBR/Springfield/1911 articles they write I am always glad to see these historical writeups. But then I got to the part where he names Hamer's rifle that he used in the Bonnie and Clyde shooting. He claims it was his 30 Remington, and nowhere mentions the 35 Remington with the extended 15 round magazine put on the by Petmecky's Police Officer Supply. I've heard this before..that he used the 30 Rem. but it doesn't seem to make sense. It's known that he stood in front of the car and shot at Bonnie through the front passenger side window with his Remington. I count at least 8 large caliber holes going right where Bonnie's head would have been in the photo link below. If it had been the 30 Remington, he would have only had 5 shots correct and all those holes don't make sense? There's no way someone was standing over Hamer's shoulder to put those additional shots in there at that same angle, and I doubt he would have reloaded and kept pumping more rounds at her from the 5 shot weapon. It is said that after his rifle was empty he drew his pistol but the fight was already over. It almost had to the be the 35 Remington with the extended Mag., based on the number of holes going straight in at Bonnie. http://texashideout.tripod.com/posse.html I don't know why stuff like this drives me crazy, but it does. Seems like we could at least get the rifle he used straight. Otherwise, a very cool article.

[Sixgun]

The only one who knows the truth is Frank himself. Sheriff Jim Wilson was no closer to the demise of Bonnie and Clyde than Obama was.

Speculation! It still sells ----------Sixgun

[Hobie]

I have read it both ways, i.e. .30 Rem and .35 Rem and even that the .30 Rem had the extended mag. IIRC he had 3 guns, one of which was fitted with the extended mag and one of which was a presentation piece in .30 Rem. One of the other "good" guys at the scene had a Remington Model 8 as well, albeit without (again IIRC) the extended mag.

These things bug me, too!

[C. Cash]

Apparently Wilson has talked with Hamer's son. I've seen pictures of his son holding the 35 with extended mag in other articles. The only 30 Rem. that I've seen seems to have no extended mag that I can recall, but maybe I'm wrong. I'll dig some more. I think the article was really good otherwise.

[Dave James]

I thought his was in the museum??

[C. Cash]

I think it is at the Texas Ranger museum in Austin?

[OD*]

Possible that Frank Hamer Jr. could have gotten confused, in an old video he said his dad used this rifle to kill B&C.




But he couldn't have, the gun in the picture is a Remington Model 81, which wasn't introduced until 1936.

[C. Cash]

That is an interesting point Dan. I believe that is the 35 Remington in question. Is it possible he had the 81 before it was available to the general public?

[smokenrust]

or could that be just a model 8?

[C. Cash]

or could that be just a model 8?

I think you might be on it smokenrust. According to this article, the beavertailed forearm was added by The Police Officer's Supply....here is a guy holding something that looks like Hamer's in 1935. So, this could be a Model 8 with modifications that make it appear as an 81? That would explain alot of things, maybe even the confusion by so many writers about the weapon used.
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/?page_id=659

[Hobie]

Some model 8s had the pistol grip.

In volume 2, number 2 of the quarterly, "The American Gun" there is an article by Harrison Kinney. I was wrong about the one Model 8, it was a .25 Remington. It says that he had a .30 Remington at the Barrow ambush site. It is said the Hamer never emptied the magazine and fired only two times, one round in the head of each criminal. Other law enforcement guns were Sheriff Henderson Jordan of Bienville Parish had a shotgun, Ted Hinton had a BAR, the others had lever-actions. Those other 3 would have been Ben Gault, Bob Ahearn, and ?????.

[C. Cash]

Some model 8s had the pistol grip.

In volume 2, number 2 of the quarterly, "The American Gun" there is an article by Harrison Kinney. I was wrong about the one Model 8, it was a .25 Remington. It says that he had a .30 Remington at the Barrow ambush site. It is said the Hamer never emptied the magazine and fired only two times, one round in the head of each criminal. Other law enforcement guns were Sheriff Henderson Jordan of Bienville Parish had a shotgun, Ted Hinton had a BAR, the others had lever-actions. Those other 3 would have been Ben Gault, Bob Ahearn, and ?????.

Thanks for the input fellas. One thing I believe is pretty certain is that Hamer was standing in front of Bonnie and Clyde....he was the only one standing in front of the car with the rest of the lawmen off to the couple's left/Hamer's right, beside the road. One man was stationed farther down the road with a BAR from what I understand but did not fire. This makes sense as he would be firing right over Hamer. Based on the angle of those bullet holes in front of Bonnie's windshield, they were fired from someone directly in front of her and firing quick. They were frontal shots, with a few angled shots from the right which are discernable from Hamer's frontal ones. They frontal shots look big, but hard to tell with a high velocity round into a windshield. I count at least 8 and perhaps more so I think the two shot theory is busted by the photos and positioning of the officers. It suggest the 35 Rem. with the extended mag. Bonnie's face showed multiple frontal hits as well, from what I remember.

[OD*]

or could that be just a model 8?

Immediately apparent in the stills from the video is that the rifle shown is actually not a Model 8 , but a Model 81 “Special Police” with a 15 round magazine. Hamer could not have possibly used a Model 81 in the ambush (production did not begin until 1936). The presence of the markings “POLICE GUN-PROPERTY OF” on the left side of the receiver proves this rifle to be a “Special Police” version built by Remington no earlier than 1940. This was not the rifle used in the ambush. The serial number ascribed to this rifle is 10045.

http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/?page_id=434

[OD*]

That is an interesting point Dan. I believe that is the 35 Remington in question. Is it possible he had the 81 before it was available to the general public?

I doubt it Chris, the Remington he is holding has the 1940 rollmarkings.

[C. Cash]

That is an interesting point Dan. I believe that is the 35 Remington in question. Is it possible he had the 81 before it was available to the general public?

I doubt it Chris, the Remington he is holding has the 1940 rollmarkings.

Interesting Dan! Thank you for that critical bit of info. The plot thickens......what the heck made all those holes in the front of Bonnies window? Wonder if it's the same rifle that our own Range Rider7 found misidentified in the Texas Ranger museum? Hmmmm...get back with ya and maybe Range Rider could chime in with what he knows as well.

[piller]

I think it is at the Texas Ranger museum in Austin?

That Ranger Museum is in Waco. Just go South from Dallas and "Cross the Brazos at Waco." (I still like Billy Walker's music) Great museum. They used to have the car that Bonnie and Clyde were killed in. Man, that car was shot up.

[Hobie]

That is an interesting point Dan. I believe that is the 35 Remington in question. Is it possible he had the 81 before it was available to the general public?

I doubt it Chris, the Remington he is holding has the 1940 rollmarkings.

Interesting Dan! Thank you for that critical bit of info. The plot thickens......what the heck made all those holes in the front of Bonnies window? Wonder if it's the same rifle that our own Range Rider7 found misidentified in the Texas Ranger museum? Hmmmm...get back with ya and maybe Range Rider could chime in with what he knows as well.

As I noted above, 3 guys had lever actions. Caliber isn't noted. I've no doubt at least one could have been a .44-40.

In the article I mentioned above, Hamer is noted as being a bit disgusted as the other men emptied their guns into the vehicle.

One other thing I found in that article was a mention that the older .25 Remington he had been using several years earlier, before he left the Rangers (when Mrs. Ferguson was elected governor), had been "cut down" by him. With the Model 8 one can shorten the gun but it isn't a simple hacksaw job. One has to shorten jacket and barrel and rethread both with modifications to the recoil spring as well. SlowHand has such a gun and the Model 8 enthusiasts have recently created their own.

[rangerider7]

All I know is the rifle was a Remington model 8 in 35 rem. that had been altered for police work with an extended magazine, pistol grip and fuller forearm. He wanted more fire power to shoot through the heavier metal of the Ford V8s of the kind Bonnie and Clyde used. He also carried a Colt 38 Super for the same reason. I'm sure he took along his other favorite guns like "Old Lucky" a Colt SAA in 45 cal. and a Model 8 Remington 30 cal., but on the ambush he used the former. Try this site for information. I tend to think this is accurate. http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/hamer_guns.htm

[OD*]

Doug's Model 8.

[AJMD429]

I see both Bonnie and Clyde's mothers wrote to law enforcement to request they be given the guns of their children, not just the other 'personal' effects.

It does seem like they should have gotten 'back' the guns, but I guess that never happened. Glad my kids haven't gone around robbing banks...!

[OD*]

All I know is the rifle was a Remington model 8 in 35 rem. that had been altered for police work with an extended magazine, pistol grip and fuller forearm. He wanted more fire power to shoot through the heavier metal of the Ford V8s of the kind Bonnie and Clyde used. He also carried a Colt 38 Super for the same reason. I'm sure he took along his other favorite guns like "Old Lucky" a Colt SAA in 45 cal. and a Model 8 Remington 30 cal., but on the ambush he used the former. Try this site for information. I tend to think this is accurate. http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/hamer_guns.htm

It would be interesting to see the video they are talking about in the article, " Some years ago Frank Hamer Jr., a distinguished lawman in his own right, gave a filmed interview in which he showed the nimble .35 that his father had bought especially to go after Bonnie and Clyde., because it isn't the one pictured above with 1940 rollmarkings.

[OD*]

Another still from the video;

[OD*]

I see both Bonnie and Clyde's mothers wrote to law enforcement to request they be given the guns of their children, not just the other 'personal' effects.

It does seem like they should have gotten 'back' the guns, but I guess that never happened. Glad my kids haven't gone around robbing banks...!

Which took a lot of nerve on their part, IMO, seeing as they were stolen to begin with.

Mr. Hamer,
I am writing you again for Mr & Mrs Barrow,
as we never got no answer from the other letter
we wrote to you. Mr. Hamer,we have been told
here by Sheriff Smoot Schmid in Dallas that you
have in your possession some guns that were in
the car at the time you and the other officers
killed my boy Clyde. Now Mr. Hamer, I do hope
you will be kindly enough to give me those guns
as you know you have no right to try and keep
those guns. I feel you should think you have caused
me enough grief and hardships without trying
to cause me more trouble now. I have been told
you got out of the car three pistols and one
sawed off shotgun. Now I do know that my boy did
buy most of the guns he had so I don't see why
you should not return the ones you have to me.
You don't never want to forget my boy was never
tried in no court for murder and no one is
guilty until proven guilty by some court so I
hope you will answer this letter and also
return the guns I am asking for.
Mrs.C.H.Barrow
(Carl) Leon Hale
1225 So. Lamar
Dallas, Tx

Seems "Ma Barrow" believed her little Clyde was really a good boy Hamer just flat out murdered.

[C. Cash]

Thanks all for chiming in. The deeper I dig, the more questions there are! Lots of varying accounts and very little I can find that was said by Hamer himself. Wonder if the rifle in question is on some kind of expense report? Dan, what is the 1940 identification on that rifle in the video clip....is it the large "Police......" portion? Wondering what other rifles that were converted by the Peace Officers Supply place were marked pre 1936? Could Remington merely have copied this when they introduced their factory version? Yep, I'm full of questions!

[OD*]

According to the Remington M8/M81 collectors, it's the “POLICE GUN-PROPERTY OF” rollmarking that Remmy started marking them with in 1940. I can't honestly say I've ever seen a M8 marked with "Peace Officers’ Equip. Co." They may have marked them that way, I'm just not that familiar with them. I would however, believe the Remington M8/M81 collectors over other online sources.

[Hobie]

Wikipedia (and we know how you have to vet most everything there) says:

In mid-March Henry Methvin's family contacted Bienville Parish Sheriff Henderson Jordan about their son, his legal troubles and his involvement with Barrow. Though Hamer was a lone wolf by nature, after much complicated politicking and negotiation he formed an inter-jurisdictional posse and an ambush plan began to come together. First to join him were Sheriff Jordan and his deputy Prentiss Oakley, an excellent marksman. Hamer brought in fellow former Ranger Manny Gault, who had been fired by "Ma" Ferguson and now worked for the Texas Highway Patrol. Hamer requested that Dallas County Sheriff Smoot Schmid commit his deputy Bob Alcorn full time to the case; Schmid sent Alcorn and another Dallas County deputy, Ted Hinton. The two deputies and Schmid had tried to ambush Barrow and Parker once before, in November 1933, near Sowers, Texas. After examining Barrow's abandoned V-8 Ford at Sowers and seeing that the barrage from his Thompson submachine gun hadn't penetrated its body, Hinton requested a BAR.

At 9:15 a.m. on May 23, 1934, after 102 days of shadowing, hunter and hunted finally met on a desolate rural road near Gibsland, Louisiana. Barrow stopped his car at the ambush spot and the posse's 150-round fusillade was so thunderous that people for miles around thought a logging crew had used dynamite to fell a particularly huge tree. Accounts of the last instants before the gunfire vary widely: Sheriff Jordan said he was calling out to Barrow to halt as the shooting started; Deputy Alcorn said that Captain Hamer was calling out; Deputy Hinton wrote that Alcorn called out. The only agreement between all six was that Deputy Oakley, perhaps nervously jumping the gun, stood and fired the opening burst from his Remington Model 8, and that his bullet into Barrow's left temple killed the outlaw instantly. The posse then fired off another hundred-plus rounds, any number of which would have been fatal to Parker and also to Barrow.

Hamer used a customized .35 Remington Model 8 semiautomatic rifle with a special-order 15-round magazine that Hamer had ordered from Petmeckey's Sporting Goods store in Austin, Texas. He was shipped serial number 10045, and this was just one of at least two Model 8's used in the ambush. The rifle was modified to accept a "police only" 15-round magazine obtained through the Peace Officers Equipment Company in St. Joseph, Missouri.

Although state, local and other sources had pledged monies to the Barrow reward kitty that brought the pre-ambush total to some $26,000, most reneged on their pledges and when the checks were finally cut for the posse members, a six-way split was all of $200.23.

There's a blog out there, too!

[C. Cash]

Agreed fellas.....I trust very little that I read on the net, or anywhere else. Just looking for a nugget of info which, when confirmed, will tell us more definitely what the rifle was. In some of those links, Sheriff Jordan claims that Hamer was using a shotgun! No way that's double ought buck through that passenger side windshield. Those are big bullets going through there straight on, and there is more than five. The only other likely rifle which would have been would be a BAR, but that is a big heavy gun....I would not choose it if I wanted a quick shot while standing in the middle of the road. The Remington 35 with 15 shots would have been the gun I would have went for, if that in fact is what Hamer used.

[Hobie]

One account said that the BAR guy didn't fire a single shot as he would have been right behind Hamer in position to stop the car if Barrow had tried to drive through the ambush.

I was just reading "The Great Remington 8" by John Henwood and he quotes published accounts which supposedly quote Hamer. This reiterates the use by Hamer of the modified Model 8 in .35 Remington. It also says that another member of the ambush party used a .30 Remington Model 8. There are photos of the car on-line.

[86er]

The "other" Model 8 present at the shootout is the one Deputy Oakely borrowed from his Dentist. It did not have the extended magazine.

[Hobie]

That's right Joe.

And, wouldn't you know it, there's an article in the latest American Rifleman, "Frank Hamer, Legendary Lawman". I tell you I don't believe in coincidence.

[AJMD429]

Good info Hobie... was in the "1894 Problem" thread though...

From the blog, this post: http://bonnieandclydehistory.blogspot.com/2011/04/baker-ambush-account-pause-is-key.html

Reading all this, I realize now that my Marlin 336 in .35 Remington is chambered for an 'semiauto assault weapon' cartridge...

[piller]

AJMD429, you know that 'sault is bad for metal.

[w30wcf]

According to the article in this month's rifleman, Hammer owned a .25 Remington (not .35) and an engraved .30 Reminton given to him by Remington which was among his most prized possessions.

According to the article both rifles were there. Hammer with the engraved .30 Remington and Gault was using Hammer's .25 Model 8.

w30wcf

[richerich]

Interesting read! I don't know much about the guns. I was at a car show when I was a kid (mid 80's) I think in N.C. on vacation and the "death car" was there. I do remember it being shot up bad and you could still make out faded blood stains on the seats. Whatever was used put alot of holes in it.

[C. Cash]

John, that is exactly the article I am referring to in this thread. No doubt Hamer's other Remington's were likely there as well. Based on the above info, I'm not sure that 35 Remington(pictured in Dan's thread) was the one Hamer used. But, on the flip side, a standard Remington Mod. 8 only holds 5 rounds. There are 8+ holes where the man standing directly in front of Bonnie fired straight in at her. I have not varified the source, but as I understand it, it's always been related that Hamer was the man who jumped into the road and was directly in front of Bonnie, shooting her in the face. So, he had to have had a high powered rifle that fired more than the standard 5 rounds in a Mod. 8. No way he would stand in that road and reload a 5 shot Remington Mod. 8 and continue shooting. I don't think it would have been a BAR either as that doesn't make sense as a weapon that would give you a fast first shot. One was supposedly in reserve farther down the road if the other men failed. So, my money is on a 15 round modified Mod. 8, shot by Hamer, until I can find better evidence either way.

richerich, the car is now at Whiskey Pete's Casino in Nevada, and there is a web site with good pictures...will have to dig up the address. The front windshield has been replaced I believe. The photos on the first website I posted clearly show the holes though.

[Lastmohecken]

I seen that car, many years ago, as a kid, when someone used to haul it around in a semi-trailer, and charge $2.00 or so to be allowed to walk through the trailer and view the car. I do remember it was shot up pretty bad. I think I remember that they said it had either over a 100 bullet holes in it, or maybe it was 300, I just can't remember, but it was a lot.

What seems funny to me is the fact that Hamer was supposed to have fired and made head shots on both Bonnie and Barrow at the beginning of the ambush. If he actually did this, why does the car have so many holes in it? Was it that they were scared so everyone just kept on shooting, or did they shoot it full of holes to cover up how the shooting actually went down, to make it look like a grand fire fight, for the newspapers of the day, instead of it looking like an excution, to put the spin on it they needed or wanted.

I guess the real truth has been lost forever, by now, dying with the memories of the lawman that were there that day.

[C. Cash]

I seen that car, many years ago, as a kid, when someone used to haul it around in a semi-trailer, and charge $2.00 or so to be allowed to walk through the trailer and view the car. I do remember it was shot up pretty bad. I think I remember that they said it had either over a 100 bullet holes in it, or maybe it was 300, I just can't remember, but it was a lot.

What seems funny to me is the fact that Hamer was supposed to have fired and made head shots on both Bonnie and Barrow at the beginning of the ambush. If he actually did this, why does the car have so many holes in it? Was it that they were scared so everyone just kept on shooting, or did they shoot it full of holes to cover up how the shooting actually went down, to make it look like a grand fire fight, for the newspapers of the day, instead of it looking like an excution, to put the spin on it they needed or wanted.

I guess the real truth has been lost forever, by now, dying with the memories of the lawman that were there that day.

I'm betting there is a letter or newspaper article out there which gives the info, but no one has taken it that far it seems. I see all the bullets as "insurance" to make sure they did not drive away, as these guys were an awful pair of murderers. The photos of Clyde do not show any frontal shots to his head where Hamer was standing....all of his shots appear to have come from hisIBarrow's) left where most of the lawmen were shooting and most of the holes in the car are. On the front windshield it looks as if Hamer put a couple towards Barrow but there are no bullet wounds on his face where he would have been hit by these, unless they went into his shoulder/torso. http://texashideout.tripod.com/deathcar.html

[OD*]

why does the car have so many holes in it?

Full-auto B.A.R.s will do that.

[C. Cash]

why does the car have so many holes in it?

Full-auto B.A.R.s will do that.

In thinking about it....the description by the sheriff's of possessing an "Automatic Rifle" could well be them using that term to describe the Remington Mod. 8's, in the sense that they load themselves. No doubt there was at least one BAR there but seems that was a reserve weapon as Hobie related above.

[Dave James]

If it was in reserve , just proves to me the good guys where either stone crazy or fearless, they all knew Barrow carried and used modified B.A.R.'s, even found a cut down one in the car according to what I have read.

[C. Cash]

If it was in reserve , just proves to me the good guys where either stone crazy or fearless, they all knew Barrow carried and used modified B.A.R.'s, even found a cut down one in the car according to what I have read.

It would have had 5 less rounds but I'd still feel pretty good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLtGc3dR-tQ

[cas]

Well…. a BAR will only make 20 holes in a car before you have to reload.
After that I'd imagine most of the action would have ceased.

[KCSO]

Hey they had more holes than swiss cheese, which bullet or pellet killed them? The autopsy I read was death due to multiple gunshot wounds. But they IS dead!

[2571]

The only one who knows the truth is Frank himself. Sheriff Jim Wilson was no closer to the demise of Bonnie and Clyde than Obama was.

But Obama got closer to Bin Laden than GW did. :>)

[richerich]

Interesting read! I don't know much about the guns. I was at a car show when I was a kid (mid 80's) I think in N.C. on vacation and the "death car" was there. I do remember it being shot up bad and you could still make out faded blood stains on the seats. Whatever was used put alot of holes in it.

It was at Niagara Falls. I was corrected by my sister lol.

[81police]

Howdy all! This is my first post, love the website btw

Thanks all for chiming in. The deeper I dig, the more questions there are! Lots of varying accounts and very little I can find that was said by Hamer himself. Wonder if the rifle in question is on some kind of expense report? Dan, what is the 1940 identification on that rifle in the video clip....is it the large "Police......" portion? Wondering what other rifles that were converted by the Peace Officers Supply place were marked pre 1936? Could Remington merely have copied this when they introduced their factory version? Yep, I'm full of questions!

I'm the author of the articles on Frank Hamer's rifle and Peace Officer's modifield Model 8's found on http://www.thegreatmodel8.net. I updated the article on Frank Hamer's rifle several months ago to include a couple more vintage photographs and some thoughts.

In regards to the questions about Frank Hamer using a modified Model 8 with extended magazine...

I have a copy of Larry Buchanan's interview with Frank Hamer Jr. who poses with the rifles his father supossedly used. The pictured rifle is a Remington Model 81 "Special Police" built no earlier than 1940. This rifle has the Model 81 roll stampings & trademark. This rifle was converted by Remington in house, not by Peace Officer's Equipment Co. The roll markings present "POLICE GUN - Property of" were implemented by Remington for their "Special Police" line of firearms (which included the Model 81 rifle and Model 11 & 31 shotguns). These markings were never used on the Model 8's converted by Peace Officer Equipment Co. This rifle is not the rifle used by Hamer to take Bonnie & Clyde. The serial number we are given is 10045. Many "Special Police" Model 81's fall into this range of serial numbers. No original converted magazine Model 8's that i have on record are near this serial number.

Would Frank Hamer, knowing he was going to confront 2 of the most dangerous criminals in the U.S., purchase Model 8 #10045 manufactured in 1908...a 26 year old firearm?! It seems very unlikely, why wouldn't he have just purchased a newly manufactured Model 8? If he had a Model 8 converted to an extended magazine there is no photograph evidence of such a rifle. 2 photographs in my article show the guns I personally think were used by the posse. They are found on top of Bonnie & Clyde's car, these are not the criminals' guns. In fact during the taking of these photos Clyde is still slumped dead in the driver's seat. The firearms include 1 Model 8, 1 BAR, and 3 shotguns. During the time Peace Officer Equipment Co. converted Model 8's to extended magazines, they also swapped the forearms for a longer and wider special forearm. The Model 8 on top of Bonnie & Clyde's car does not have this forearm but a standard production forearm. It is most likely NOT an extended magazine Model 8. Other law enforcement officers would have had no business placing their firearms (why would they bring a BAR out when B&C were already dead) on top of the outlaws car?

I know what the personal accounts say of who used what, and they're nearly all conflicting. I think the idea of Hamer using an extended magazine Model 8 is cool, believe me they're my passion! However there's really no solid evidence one was used, in fact everything points that one wasn't used. I do believe Hamer loved the Model 8 and its firepower, hence the reason he ordered a "Special Police" Model 81 years later. Just my 2 cents and I definitely DON'T know it all! Sorry for the long winded response A link to the updated article is below...

http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/?page_id=434

A history and study of Peace Officer Equip. Co. Remingtons

http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/?page_id=659

God bless,
Cam
http://www.thegreatmodel8.net

[sore shoulder]

I'm still trying to figure out why Hobie hasn't posted a pic of his Model 8 in this thread.

Anyone ever notice the resemblance between a model 8 and a certain rifle with the model number 47?

Dan, Hi!

I bet one of those 15 round mags is worth a pretty penny. I was recently doing some research on the model 8 and I swore there was a .40 auto cartridge of some kind back then, but cannot find it. At first I thought it was chambered in a model 8 but I was wrong.

Very good thread though, thanks for the read guys.

[gamekeeper]

Interesting articles and welcome 81police to the fire.

[Hobie]

I'm still trying to figure out why Hobie hasn't posted a pic of his Model 8 in this thread.

Anyone ever notice the resemblance between a model 8 and a certain rifle with the model number 47?

Dan, Hi!

I bet one of those 15 round mags is worth a pretty penny. I was recently doing some research on the model 8 and I swore there was a .40 auto cartridge of some kind back then, but cannot find it. At first I thought it was chambered in a model 8 but I was wrong.

Very good thread though, thanks for the read guys.

Hi Frank! I didn't post it because my rifle didn't shoot either Bonnie or Clyde. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

[C. Cash]

Cam....that is great info. Thank you for taking the time to relate it. I'm on the run here but look forward to digging through all of it in detail. And Welcome!