.357 velocities vs 9mm & .40 in carbine

M92nut · Post by **M92nut** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:55 pm

I am curious as to how the 9mm and .40 S&W chambered carbines compare to the velocity gains that you see with the .357 mag. I know that you average 100 fps more for every additional 1" length of barrel up to a point in the .357 mag but do you see similiar increases in velocity in the 9 and 40? Thanks

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:18 pm

It's more like 50 fps/inch, but yes, the improvement should be there. You should see roughly + 300 fps.
My Marlin Camp Carbine made the .45acp into a completely different creature.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:18 pm

M92nut wrote:I am curious as to how the 9mm and .40 S&W chambered carbines compare to the velocity gains that you see with the .357 mag. I know that you average 100 fps more for every additional 1" length of barrel up to a point in the .357 mag but do you see similiar increases in velocity in the 9 and 40? Thanks

Thanks for a project idea. I am fortunate enough to have a chronograph and the appropriate carbines. Once weather warms up enough, I'll try to post some results. If not done by Easter, re-post and remind me to get off my butt and do some shootin'!

Buffboy · Post by **Buffboy** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:44 pm

Homefront has it right, none of the auto pistol cartridges gain like the revolver cartridges. They are much more efficient in a pistol. There's gain there but not like 357 or 44 mags big gains in a rifle.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:50 pm

Homefront,
Can you elaborate on this some more, I have a .45 Camp Carbine

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:11 pm

Well, I didn't chrono anything, but slow shooting with the stock buckhorns produced tight touching cluster groups with Winchester 230 gr. hardball. It was so satisfying to see those tight groups, compared to what I was capable of with a 5" 1911. Also, there was a noticeable difference in backstop reaction. The dirt seemed to explode, compared to the "poof" I'd get with the pistol. I believe that the Camp Carbine would make a fine 100-and-less yards whitetail gun, with hollowpoints or large meplat cast bullets (if they'll feed - I never tried 'em).
I sold mine a while back, and I regret it.
Get yourself several recoil blocks, if you can find them, as they get fragile and shatter with age. A couple of spare springs might be smart, too.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:48 pm

Homefront,
THANK YOU
I have 24 rounds thru mine
Always thought it made more sense than a shotgun in tight situations
Guess I need to pay more attention to it

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:48 pm

I've got 2 of the Marlin camp 9's and they are a hoot to shoot. I'll try a little experiment with the Marlin 9 and my 5" XD 9mm with a buddies chrono.

While cleaning my 1st camp 9 I noticed the magazine looked a lot like the mag for the Springfield XD. So I tried the XD mag in the Marlin. It worked great. A slight Dremel cut on the side of the XD mag is all it took.

I now have 16 round mags that fit my pistol and my carbine. This my official bad times combo.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:20 pm

This my official bad times combo.

That was why I originally bought mine 22 years ago. I really liked the idea of one caliber, one magazine. Now I feel a little different; the rifle, in a rifle caliber, is the primary weapon, and the handgun is backup. 2 different calibers work fine in that arrangement.
The Camp Carbine shouldered and shot so handily that I still wish I had it back. My 1894 .357 and .41 have the same handiness, with more punch.

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:18 am

Mike Venturino did an article on the camp carbines a while back; I cut it out and filed it. IIRC the 9mm had very modest velocity gains, virtually none for the heavy bullets (not enough powder!) The .45 did better. None were anything like the Magnum caliber velocity gains we see.

I have a 9 camp carbine. The one thing that irritates me about that gun is you are not supposed to use +P in it. Kinda ruins half the reason for it. It is accurate and fun to shoot though.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:00 am

Here are the velocities we recorded in carbines and handguns ...

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/rifle_handgundata.htm

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:21 am

Cor-Bon 230 JHP
5" 1911 - 909
Thompson Sub Machine Gun - 1346

Cor-Bon 200 JHP
1911 - 1023
TSMG - 1338

Cor-Bon 185 JHP
1911 - 1171
TSMG - 1338

Cor-Bon 165 JHP
1911 - 1200
TSMG - 1319

That's leaping from non-magnum to magnum territory, and better than some of the other calibers. Good to know.
MAYBE I need another Camp Carbine!

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:44 am

I based my decision for the Camp 9 and XD on data other then velocity gain. First was availability of ammo. 2nd was accuracy. 3rd was magazine capacity.

9mm can be found anywhere. My XDs like 115 or 124 grn ball or HP. The Marlin likes 115 but prefers 124 grn. Again ball or HP. I've got the scope set for 75 yards. The pistol is backup and out to about 25 yards.

Both are quite accurate in their given range limits. If I need to shoot further then 100 yards then I have several other options. Including 7.62x39 with 30 rnd mags.

With just a slight mod to the XD mag I can use it in both giving me 34 rounds of 9mm with 2 mags. I own a bunch of these mags, all modded to fit the Marlin.

Even if all I had was the Marlin I'd still be in good shape for 2 or 4 legged critters.

dsmith512 · Post by **dsmith512** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:59 am

homefront wrote: Get yourself several recoil blocks, if you can find them, as they get fragile and shatter with age. A couple of spare springs might be smart, too.

Definitely get new springs for the Marlin Camp 45. The original spring that shipped with the rifle was designed for the 9mm not the 45acp round. It is just not strong enough to handle the 45acp round. Could lead to a shattered recoil buffer and a cracked stock.

You can get recoil buffers from
http://www.blackjackbuffers.com/

You can get the springs from
http://www.gunsprings.com/1ndex.html

Specifically here:
http://www.gunsprings.com/RifleShotgun/Marlin_Rs.html
I got the 21lb spring.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:01 am

I have to wonder what the gains would be in .40 S&W and .357 Sig.

Funny, the first time I fired my Camp Carbine, the stock split right behind the receiver. Marlin replaced it N/C.

dsmith512 · Post by **dsmith512** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:13 am

Yep, probably do to that 11lb spring. Replace it if you have not already. Also the heaver spring keeps the smutz from blowing all in your face.

Marlin Customer support is one of the best. I got a new guide gun and it came with a micro crack in the stock. Marlin replaced it N/C.

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:15 pm

The .45 ACP data above may not be typical. Cor-Bon seems to aim for increased fps, probably by using compressed charges of slower powders. More typical .45 factory loads may not give such a bump in fps when fired in a carbine. My notebook has some numbers from the 8/88 issue of Shooting Times. In a Camp Carbine (16.5" barrel) , the speeds were 185 gn at 990 and 230 gn at 950.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:25 am

dsmith,
Thanks for the info on the buffer & the spring

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:26 am

I bought a used Ruger PC4 on a whim, I thought it was a good price at the time (turned out to be okay but not good). I have one of the Pro-Mag 20 rounders and the one 11 round factory mag that came with it.

It seems very heavy to me for what it is, but I can't pry it out of my wife's hands.

I like the .40S&W over 9mm under just about any circumstances, and already have a pistol in .40 (though it's not a Ruger and I don't plan to get one), so we had some ammo already.

I am considering getting a Glock 19 before the November election, just in case somebody wins, since I have a collection of standard-capacity mags that will fit it...

While we're comparing, maybe somebody could put the .30 Carbine in the chart along with these pistol calibers?

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:52 am

MikeS. wrote:I've got 2 of the Marlin camp 9's and they are a hoot to shoot. I'll try a little experiment with the Marlin 9 and my 5" XD 9mm with a buddies chrono.

While cleaning my 1st camp 9 I noticed the magazine looked a lot like the mag for the Springfield XD. So I tried the XD mag in the Marlin. It worked great. A slight Dremel cut on the side of the XD mag is all it took.

I now have 16 round mags that fit my pistol and my carbine. This my official bad times combo.

I beleive your carbine takes Mod 59 S&W mags. Shotgun News advertises 30 round mags for a decent price. They are aftermarket I beleive so you will have to check. I have a Colt AR-15 9mm. It is great fun to shoot but I will probably sell it for lack of utility. I cant hunt with it and I use the regular Ar-15 in .223 for work. I will buy another lever or two with the money.

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:08 pm

mescalero1 wrote:dsmith,
Thanks for the info on the buffer & the spring

+10

I ordered 2 sets of springs and buffers for both my Camp 9s and 2 sets of springs for my Ruger Mk II. Oh and buffers for my 2 AKs.

I was real glad to get the buffers for the 9s since I've read from several places that they are an issue.

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:13 pm

I beleive your carbine takes Mod 59 S&W mags. Shotgun News advertises 30 round mags for a decent price. They are after market I believe so you will have to check.

You are right about the 59 mags, I have 1 factory mag, forget how many rounds it holds. I might look into these 30 rounders.

Thanks,

.357 velocities vs 9mm & .40 in carbine

.357 velocities vs 9mm & .40 in carbine

Re: .357 velocities vs 9mm & .40 in carbine