Why does the kick on a cresent butt feel more harsh?

[hightime]

Than a shotgun butt? I know it just does, but inquiring mind want to know.
I just like the look of the cresent.

Owen

[TNBigBore]

You have to hold the crescent further out on your arm or the points are going to dig into your shoulder at some point. If you have very big arms sometimes even this approach does not help. I like the looks of them too, but have resigned myself to using only shotgun style butt plates for this very reason.

[.45colt]

A cresent must be shot holding the butt off of the shoulder,between the bisep and shoulder on the upper arm.it fits there and works fine.hold it on the shoulder like a shotgun butt and have a long painfull day. .

[Mike D.]

The common crescent style butt doesn't do much for me, I much prefer the shotgun type. In fact, I only own one 1886 with a crescent butt.

[horsesoldier03]

I am convienced, CRESENT BUTTS are for LOOKS ONLY! The only functional purpose I know of is they make you concentrate on your shooting form! If you do it wrong, it will probably be a short shooting session!

[cowboykell]

If you're getting more kick with the crescent butt, you must be shouldering it wrong. The crescent butt fits the natural curve of the shoulder. The only rifle that should fit above the bicep is a swiss or schuetzen butt and they were usually chambered in nothing larger than 38-55. Try shooting a 45-70 above the bicep, then you will know what recoil is all about.

[Leverluver]

Ah-0h, you better erase this before KirkD sees it

[KirkD]

Ah-0h, you better erase this before KirkD sees it

Too late! I saw it. Here is the usual photo on how to hold a crescent butt ... nothing more comfy than a crescent butt properly nestled into that little notch in your upper arm ....

[.45colt]

And "That" as Paul Harvey used to say...Is The Rest of The Story. .

[LeverBob]

Nice Pythons KD & still a pretty good farmers tan!

LB

p.s. ....exactly right Pard....

[Old Time Hunter]

Just remember the crescent butt stock worked extremely well while on horseback, the curve nestling into the inner side of the elbow. That allowed the rifle to somewhat ride smoother than following the movements of the horse.

Read that somewhere....just can't remember

[PaperPatch]

Why does the kick on a cresent butt feel more harsh?

Prior to gaining employment in the firearms industry....the Crescent's designer played a key role in engineering the Pitch Fork!

[Malamute]

Some of us just can't get comfortable with them. I cut the crescent off my Browing 86 rifle after shooting some 500 gr loads @ 1750 fps.

I much prefer the shotgun butt, and the carbine butt isnt too bad.

[claybob86]

Never had any trouble with the crescents, and I love their looks on a long barreled rifle!

[KirkD]

... 500 gr loads @ 1750 fps.

That sounds like Grizzly medicine!

[cowboykell]

That would sure turn your bicep black & blue.

[Tumbleweeds II]

The crescent butt is generally narrower than the shotgun butt too. That will increase the felt recoil due to the increased pressure per square inch.

nother thing: We load our guns a lot hotter than our great grandfathers did. I have a Marlin 94 with a crescent butt and it is a pussycat with .44 special rounds. With .44 magnum, the kick is a bit stiff.

[Old Savage]

Have a cute blonde step on your chest with spike heels and BOUNCE - you will get the idea. I fired a BP rifle with a calculated 96 ft lbs and a steel tear dropped but plate - TC New Englander. - WOW! Won't do that again but didn't really intend to do it the first time. 1400 gr of projectile, 110 gr BP at 795 fps. GIve me a shotgun butt plate or KirkD's arm.

[markinalpine]

Never had any trouble with the crescents, and I love their looks on a long barreled rifle!

DITTO!

Merry Christmas,
Mark

[DPris]

Old Savage,
Nice visual image there....
Denis

[O.S.O.K.]

I like em just fine on my 1895 Win in 30 US and my "converted" 94 Winchester chambered for 30-30AI. That's about the level of recoil that I want to stay at or under for them though. "Above" that level, then I'm definately a shotgun butt man. Kirk shows the way to shoulder them correctly. Some guys just have too much "body" there though for correct fit.

[cshold]

The only cresent I have is on a Win. model 94 in 25-35 win.
The recoil is all but nonexistent in that round.

[kaschi]

The crescent butt definitely kicks harder IMO too. First, and foremost, there is less area in a crescent buttplate than in a shotgun/flat buttplate. The larger the area, the less perceived kick you'll experience. Secondly, the upper or lower points of the buttplate can really jab you if things are not aligned perfectly (and they are not always aligned perfectly depending on your hold, or if you're shooting from the bench, etc). Obviously the caliber plays a major role. I've read countless reports of guys who've shot the 95 Winchester in 405 with the crescent butt and say it's murder! That I definitely believe. When Turnbull made me a 50-110 on a Browning 86, I kept that advice in mind and had it fitted with a flat buttplate. I'm glad it was decided that way. Can't imagine shooting that beautiful rifle with the crescent style.

[LeverBob]

KirkD put the lasso on that nag years ago on this site. If'n y'all want a couple of mother stabers then go ahead, but don't say you haven't been warned.

Sharps offered a shotgun butt as an alternative in about 1870 for the pards that had common sense.

Just think...masochism just may be your bag! Not me.

LB

[cowboykell]

It would be interesting to do a poll to see how many shooters shoulder their rifle or bicep their rifle.

[BAGTIC]

Can't beat a modern resilient shotgun style pad.

I had shoulder surgery last year year. The surgeon said my condition is commonly seen in football players. It only cost $10,000 to get the problem mostly fixed. Could have bought a lot of recoil pads for that. I suspect at least some of the perceptions are from 'manly' men. Now I was never recoil sensitive but my skeleton finally caught up with me just like a lot of old timers who ignored hearing protection because it was sissy and a real man didn't need such stuff.

[KirkD]

I've always bicep'd my rifles, even when I was a kid and shot nothing but shotgun butts. I never could figure out why people like to cram their butts into their shoulder; it takes half an hour to get it into position and your neck cricked around so you can see the sights. You can get your rifle up and shooting way faster if it slaps into your arm and with the crescent guiding it into position and keeping it there; it doesn't move around while cranking in another shot. You just sort of toss your gun into the air and there it is, nestled in your arm. Contrary to what another fellow posted above, I say the crescent butt contacts the arm over a larger area than the shotgun butt. The arm is curved, so is the crescent butt. Shotgun butts just contact the arm in the middle of the buttplate. Shotgun butts just don't make sense to me. I think they're alright in a light recoiling rifle like a .22 or a 32-20, but for heavy recoil, give me a crescent butt please. Having said all this, maybe I'm a freak of nature with some unusual anatomy around the arm-shoulder-neck area.

At the end of the day, I figure a fellow can shoot however he wants to, so if some fellows like to use a shotgun butt and put it on their shoulder and that works for them, I'm happy.

[cowboykell]

Doing something wrong over and over again doesn't make it right.

[crs]

IMHO, a rifle with a crescent butt plate is best shot off hand, not from a benchrest where it is more difficult to acquire the proper placement of the buttplate, wherever the shooter may prefer it.. The shooter also hunkers down on the bench and this does not allow the shooter's body to move backward with the recoiling rifle. Note KirkD photo is an offhand position.

When hunting with my1886 9.5 pound .45-90 using heavy loads(450 grain Kodiak at 2150 fps), the recoil is not noticed at the time, but a recent video of my bison hunt showed that the rifle pushed me back and turned my body some, much like a 12 guage shotgun with magnum turkey loads, which are very unpleasant to shoot from a benchrest position. However, the 1886 octagon barrel did not rise enough to cause me to lose sight of the bison and I love the sound of that big flat point bullet hitting game!

[KirkD]

CRS, you are right about the offhand shooting. I find that when shooting on a bench, I put the butt on the ball of my shoulder. the curved crescent butt fits on that too, but the steel buttplate hurts under heavy recoil when it is on the ball of my shoulder (once a 400 grain bullet starts leaving the barrel at over 1,500 fps and up, the steel buttplate needs some padding when shooting from a bench, I'll admit). I usually wear a heavy leather jacket when shooting my 45-70's from the bench. With a padded butt, I wouldn't need to wear a jacket, but I ain't never going to put a buttpad on my beautiful vintage crescent steel butts.

[Old Savage]

Raise the elbow and put the butt plate against the pectoralis muscle just inside of the shoulder joint - a natural shock absorber built in there. Offhand, off the bench, sitting, whatever - same place.

[KirkD]

I just can't do it, OS. It requires that I crank my neck over to some unnatural angle and then I have to go see a chiropractor to get it back into position again.

[Old Savage]

You know Kirk - that is basically the same reason I do it the way I do and I have my chiropractor on site. And I cannot get my head down on a normal Win 94 with open sights without the same problem. Put a scope on and my neck is relaxed and can give with the recoil. My 444 Big Bore has a Pachmayr one inch pad added and that added drop also makes it comfortable. You have demonstrated that what you are doing works well for you and I think as someone stated, maybe you, that you have to find out what works for you in terms of accuracy and comfort. The antelope and deer I have shot here in the wide open spaces have been between 165 and 280 yds so it's not like I have throw the gun up and start slinging lead - well, copper now. condors and all. A lot of you who have had auto accidents 25 or more years ago may have necks that look something like this. Certain positions you will likely get along with and not so well some others.

[cshold]

You know Kirk - that is basically the same reason I do it the way I do and I have my chiropractor on site. And I cannot get my head down on a normal Win 94 with open sights without the same problem. Put a scope on and my neck is relaxed and can give with the recoil. My 444 Big Bore has a Pachmayr one inch pad added and that added drop also makes it comfortable. You have demonstrated that what you are doing works well for you and I think as someone stated, maybe you, that you have to find out what works for you in terms of accuracy and comfort. The antelope and deer I have shot here in the wide open spaces have been between 165 and 280 yds so it's not like I have throw the gun up and start slinging lead - well, copper now. condors and all. A lot of you who have had auto accidents 25 or more years ago may have necks that look something like this. Certain positions you will likely get along with and not so well some others.

That's a "carry handle" Mr. OS

[Old Savage]

Well there then - maybe for those who think they are and don't know what they are looking at. Now here is a pretty girl just in case you need some instruction on this identification thing.

[KirkD]

By gum, OS, just when I we start concentrating on the technical aspects of necks, you get us all distracted! Now what was it we were talking about? ..... Oh yes, neck position. Yes, if my rifles had a scope, with the sighting line a lot higher than for iron sights, then I could see the butt moving a lot closer to the traditional shoulder position. As it is, with iron sights and the line of sight skimming along the top of the barrel, I find the most comfortable position is with the butt further out on the arm. My neck feels much better sighting in that position.

This is interesting and suggests that there may be more at play than mere personal preference. Neck length, how close the sighting line is to the barrel, drop of stock, length of pull ...... all of these seem to be factors.

[Old Savage]

Kirk, glad to distract you - you are fellow I suspect works to hard and long. Now on the issues beside personal preference - the issues you are considering on bodies and spines that have beat about over the years may likely create personal preferences. On of my friends who is 6'5" and 270 had an 1886 with a crescent butt plate - bruise and beat him with the 400 gr at 1875 fps loads we made up. Another friend who is 5'10" and about 140 happily shot up about 75 of the loads to get rid of them with no problem - so, you are right, fit and body mechanics play a large role.

[kimwcook]

I generally shoulder a standard shotgun buttstoke inside my shoulder, but when I got my Winoku 45-90 with a crescent buttstock I took Kirk's advise and shot it placed at the top of my bicep. Never had a problem and no bruises. Mind you these weren't high end loads, just factory 45-70's and some factory cowboy 45-90's. But I shot about 60 rounds at one session, all offhand. I'd of shot bench, but didn't have one available.

[buckeyeshooter]

I would much rather shoot my 50 alaskan with 535 grain bullets at 2000 fps and shotgun stock than my 1895 winchester carbine in 30-06 with 180 grain bullets with the steel crescent butt plate! The alaskan in much 'kinder' to shoot!