Home Defense scenario

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:25 am

Ya read a lot about what makes the perfect home defense gun, some like a shotgun, some a rifle and some a handgun.
Got to thinking about it one night while laying in bed and some thoughts came to me about different guns.
I think it has a lot to do with the circumstances, if a intruder picked the lock on the door so you didn`t hear him enter the house and you woke up with a him standing beside your bed with a knife you could never get your hands on that rifle or shotgun next to the bed in time.
Wonder if that`s where the handgun under the pillow idea arose from.
Kinda a scary thought isn`t it.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:38 am

I really don't think that anyone could approach either door without Thor alerting me. There is a motion light on the front, and the back slider is impossible to open without some noise.He's in the room with me at all times. Terriers are under-rated, IMO. My bedside comfort of choice is the 1911.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:50 am

In my minds eye a hand gun is really the only first defender for the home. Long guns are just to big and clumsy until you are awake. The transition from sleep to awake is the bad time. During that time you'll be doing good to get you mind to think let alone find the gun, your pants, figure out where the other people that live in your house is, and weather the bump in the night was caused by a couple of your cats chasing spooks in the night.

Now if you wake up with an intruder standing over you with a knife, you darn better well already have your name written in the book of life cos you're gonna bleed. You might get the gun out from under your pillow, you might get the perp, but he'll get you first.

JMHO

Joe

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:51 am

I agree that a dog could be a life saver, good point, there are more things to consider than one thinks.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:56 am

Here's what a friend who is in the 'security' industry recommends to clients:

Fences
Signs
Alarm notices (not necessarily for the type(s) of alarms actually on-site)
Cameras
Outside dogs
Stout doors
Inside dog(s)
Handy, loaded, firearms
Training of ALL family members

I think 'outside PIGS' would beat outside dogs, as they'd EAT the intruders, instead of just biting them...

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:27 pm

I also prefer a handgun for home defense. Easier to manipulate light switches and door knobs if one hand is free. Also if you have to go answer the door at the wee hours of the morning a handgun is easier to conceal and doesnt alarm people as much especially if it is a law enforcement officer.

RustyJr

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:03 pm

Great replies, it`s that awaking threat i`m talking about where the intruder is right beside the bed. Deterrence is a very good idea and i`m leaning toward using a handgun, sorry A5.

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:14 pm

J Miller wrote:In my minds eye a hand gun is really the only first defender for the home. Long guns are just to big and clumsy until you are awake. The transition from sleep to awake is the bad time. During that time you'll be doing good to get you mind to think let alone find the gun, your pants, figure out where the other people that live in your house is, and weather the bump in the night was caused by a couple of your cats chasing spooks in the night.

Now if you wake up with an intruder standing over you with a knife, you darn better well already have your name written in the book of life cos you're gonna bleed. You might get the gun out from under your pillow, you might get the perp, but he'll get you first.

JMHO

Joe

I'd think twice before laying a big wad of cash down on the table to back that bet.

Maybe he'll get me, maybe he won't if he's really big & tough, but he'll be gaining weight fast while he's making the attempt.

230 grains for each bang.

By the time the 7th bang happens he'll be using my socks for pillows on the floor by the bed & he'll be leaking badly from 7 x .452 diameter holes.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:46 pm

What AJDM said.

Layers of defense.

If he's already inside without you knowing, you fail.

Good fences (over six feet, if not possible, then six feet and backed up with thorny bushes under the windows)

Motion sensor lights.

Alarm system.

Dog (either large and protective, or small and very noisy, aka alarm dog, which only makes noise when it's 'for real' not a random yapper)

Steel doors and frames. Good locks. Deadbolt.

Guns and TRAINING for all involved.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:51 pm

Most people arn`t prepared or think about such a intrusion. Any shotgun or other good defence gun will work if your aware of the intruder breaking in, thus the saying that the sound of a pump gun being pumped will deter the intruder.
But in the scenario i layed out it`s a whole different game

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:56 pm

Pitchy wrote:Ya read a lot about what makes the perfect home defense gun, some like a shotgun, some a rifle and some a handgun. Got to thinking about it one night while laying in bed and some thoughts came to me about different guns. I think it has a lot to do with the circumstances, if a intruder picked the lock on the door so you didn`t hear him enter the house and you woke up with a him standing beside your bed with a knife you could never get your hands on that rifle or shotgun next to the bed in time. Wonder if that`s where the handgun under the pillow idea arose from. Kinda a scary thought isn`t it.

Been there, done that...

Even a "Pillow Gun" doesn't help when the knife is right there. Only the Will to survive - backed with some good knife training - gives you any chance at all. It's AFTER you've gotten that extra few seconds reprieve that a CQB weapon becomes helpful...

My "bed" CQB tools are a Gladius, the1911 and the Howda...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:57 pm

Only weapon we have worth anything is our mind. It's all about mindset.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:57 pm

I have (4) home defense guns. three hidden in the house upstairs and one where I sleep.all are clean,oiled and loaded. As Elmer Keith said "When You Need a Gun You "NEED" it badly.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:05 pm

I`ve thought the first move in that scenario would be to heave my pillow at him as hard as i could that may give me time to get my gun.
Getting the edge on him is key.

TMair · Post by **TMair** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:08 pm

I think if you wake up to find some one standing over you with a knife, he/she is not there to rob you, they have more sinister things on their mind, I think that weighs things in their favor a lot, if you were lucky enough to kick them away, then try and get to your hand gun.
I think in most home defence scenarios a hand gun is the weapon of choice, any long gun is much easier to be taken from you by the bad guy unless you get the drop on them from the get go, I always try to remember the first rule I learned in sea kayaking, if you don't have it on you, you don't have it with you!!
Terry

rodeo kid · Post by **rodeo kid** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:11 pm

Pitchy, you have got to get a couple of dogs. A big one for outside and something smaller to sleep in your bedroom. I have a Greyhound outside and min schnauzers inside. No one even gets to ring the doorbell without them barking. My house is a good ways from the road and they let you know when the mailman is there, let alone anyone driving up the driveway. And one of my female schnauzers is fearless, anyone breaking in will get bit unless I call her off. Dogs are truly man's best friend when it comes to home protection, backed up in my house by a 12 ga pump shotgun just inside the closet, a Ruger LRC in my wife's nightstand and a Browning Hi-Power in mine. God Bless.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:16 pm

A dog is the answer to this scenario. If you wake up to an armed man standing over you it is possible with some luck and extreme aggression you might make it. You can't survive every encounter though. The scenario you outlined is a tough one.

InTheWoods · Post by **InTheWoods** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:23 pm

We have an infrared driveway alarm at our house that will alert us if a car or person is passing a point a hundred feet from the house. The driveway is about a quarter mile long and access to the house without using the drive is tough going (pond, creeks, very steep slopes, thick woods, etc.). Of course, someone really meaning to do us harm might find his way through the woods, but I don't think we have offended anyone that much. The only problem with this type of alarm is that sometimes deer, coyotes, etc. set it off. Our outside dogs also sound an alarm of their own most of the time. Other times, they are just to darn lazy to get off their butts and bark.

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:25 pm

45 ACP.

in the nitestand. Short barreled 12 gauge pump near by.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:38 pm

rodeo kid wrote:Pitchy, you have got to get a couple of dogs. A big one for outside and something smaller to sleep in your bedroom. I have a Greyhound outside and min schnauzers inside. No one even gets to ring the doorbell without them barking. My house is a good ways from the road and they let you know when the mailman is there, let alone anyone driving up the driveway. And one of my female schnauzers is fearless, anyone breaking in will get bit unless I call her off. Dogs are truly man's best friend when it comes to home protection, backed up in my house by a 12 ga pump shotgun just inside the closet, a Ruger LRC in my wife's nightstand and a Browning Hi-Power in mine. God Bless.

Oh i got my guard dog, can hear anything.
This thread has nothing to do with myself in any way, just thought it would be an interesting topic.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:52 pm

Ptichy, it's a gread thread. Kinda makes people think, and when they read what others have done it gives them ideas for their own use.

Me, I used to work rotating shift work, and for a while before that straight nights. That left the wife and boys home alone during hours of darkness. So, I talked to a few folks and realized that a layered defense is what is needed. I think someone already wrote what a professional suggested, and that's basically what I did, less dogs (wife is allergic, even to poodles and such).

Now I'm older, and the boys are all grown up and living their own lives. I don't work nights or weekends, heck I'm like a normal human being. But, the key world is "older". Hearing is shot, and I always could sleep thru anything, so I need something to provied advance warning. The alarm is good, but some dishonest folks now how to defeat them.

I have, however, found that my cats, while they don't bark, provide plenty of advance warning. If something happens outside, they either run thru the house to a window to see what's going on, or if frightened, land in the middle of you looking for cover. Heck, they even seem to know when earthquakes are about to happen.

So, with fences, good windows, doors and locks, physical security is good. And the feline early warning system, the alert system is great. So with all this, you're probably wondering what type of high crime area ole Jeepnik lives in out there in SoCal. Actually, the area I'm in is a L.A. County area, and the Sheriff isn't as timid as the LAPD. So the crime rate in my little neighborhood is exceptionally low. Of course, that may be because we have, in some cases, three generations of families living here, no not in the same house. Having good neighbors, and a stable neighborhood goes a long way even in today's insanity.

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:24 pm

MrMurphy wrote:
If he's already inside without you knowing, you fail.

People should speak for themselves.

There are too many personal & circumstantial variables in any situation to make general rules.

Getting into the house is one thing (not easy at my place), getting into my bedroom is quite another (you WON'T do it undetected, that's a promise).

I've gone to bed & woken up successfully in people unfriendly environments before.

Factors are your training & skills, experience & of course the acuity of your senses.

Muscle memory kicks in for highly trained people when faced with imminent danger cause if you have to think about what to do next you'd better make sure you've written your last will & testament.

You FAIL when your DEAD.

You WIN when it's your opponent who is lying inside the chalk line.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:45 pm

Great subject Pitchy ole pard .. unfortunately it can bring out the armchair gunfighters.

Experience shows several things: If the bad guy is intent on getting you he likely can. You may get him too ... but ...

If there has been no training, no matter how good a shot the homeowner is, he likely will be injured. Training that is kept current helps one react according to training, not according to emotions.

Most gunowners think because they can shoot well at the range they will do well in a close-range interpersonal confrontation. This is not true and does not hold up. Gunfighters that I have personally known were not necessarily good shots .. but they could stand up and face someone who was wanting to kill them at less than 10 feet and get the job done.

If one has never had someone come at them with the intent to do them bodily harm then one is not conditioned to survive the incident unharmed. They may because God is merciful .. for which I am thankful. But likely they may not.

It is the same with dangerous animal attacks. Unless one has some training and experience one is likely to be hurt or killed. One reason a PH has to accompany every hunter who goes after dangerous game here in Africa. Someone with training has to get the job done if everything goes into the toilet.

We have a great problem with burglars and thieves here. The one thing that has stood us in good regard is our dog. She will attack quickly and violently. After a few people got chewed up by her we have had no problems. She patrols the yard all night. The word gets around. The last thief tried to get our neighbor's stuff .. he left most of his clothes and some of his skin behind.

Back to your scenario .. If they are there to do you harm most likely you won't even have time to react. It the primary intent is not harm, and if you have had embassy training .. let that kick in (Smile - Assure them of co operation - Keep your voice low - Don't make direct eye contact - No sudden moves) You can depart from the embassy training when you can come up with a weapon and strike suddenly and without warning.

If you can't get to weapon .. trust the Lord and pray they only take stuff. "stuff" ain't worth dying for ... someone's gonna get it when we die and most likely they will sell it and by beer to party with!

Layers of defense help. We try to layer as much as we can here. Nothing is perfect but you do your best and trust the Lord.

Blessings!

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:50 pm

Good to see ya Jim

I think i`d be correct in saying that if a person got to your bedside without you knowing it and had harm to you in his mind that shotgun beside the bed would most likely be used to kill you.
All the ideas posted about things to awake you or alert you is very important.

Can`t remember the name of a western, something (blank moon) where a outlaw gunslinger was shot and in bed. He had is sixgun hanging on the bed rail beside him.
The sherriff came in and was going to kill him when the outlaws hand raised the covers and it wasn`t no woody

prepared

Old Ranger · Post by **Old Ranger** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:45 pm

Pitchy,

Just let the guy take what he wants and then as he's leaving, let him use your Big Bicycle for a getaway vehicle. When he falls off and breaks his neck, you can have a good laugh and your stuff back

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:59 pm

Old Ranger wrote:Pitchy,

Just let the guy take what he wants and then as he's leaving, let him use your Big Bicycle for a getaway vehicle. When he falls off and breaks his neck, you can have a good laugh and your stuff back

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:06 pm

I had a major blow out with the Ole Lady about this very subject. There's been several
viscious home invasions in the national news along with a couple local ones.

My wife puts up with my guns but refuses to learn how to use them.
We had a Major argument a few months ago when the Pettit family killers were
convicted on the east coast. My wife said "that would never happen here". I just blew up.
That neighborhood was no different than ours and what are you going to do if someone my size
busts through the door and wants to do really bad things to you and your kids?

We have an alarm, four inside dogs and I'm a very light sleeper. Rare that one of the
boys comes home late that me or the dogs don't hear it.

G 19 on the nightstand and AR lightweight alongside it.
Hope that does it.
i've shown her how to use them but I really worry if she will. If the boys are home, no worries. they both have
.22s and 12's!
jb

WCF3030 · Post by **WCF3030** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:26 pm

At the risk of sounding like a mall ninja or a key board commando… my first weapon is my mind. I've developed a proper mindset, I stay in shape and I’m a H@## of a handful without a firearm for any goblin even one that is standing over me with a knife. But from reading some of these posts it sounds like some of you have given up just at the thought of this situation.
My dad is “old” and way out of shape, but he still has a nonsense get it done mindset, that I would lay odds on in any encounter.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:43 pm

Interesting subject, tho location has some bearing on likely scenarios. I'm more concerned about large varmints than people, tho keep in mind that bad folks know how to drive, and therefore could end up anywhere.

Dogs are good, when mine are outside, they don't bark at much, so when they do, I pay attention. One thing about Mals, even if they see someone they know, they make noise, they get happy and howl. If something looks hinky to them, they do bark. Makes me sit up right away. When a bear tried to come into camp, they both went ballistic. I don't expect them to attack anyone or anything, (they may very well do so, but that's not my intent or requirement in having a dog as a security element) just let me know somethings up. The high fence around the yard may help, tho there isn't much crime in the whole state, let alone out here.

My house would be extremely difficult to get into when I'm home. The door bolts from inside, theres simply nothing to pick. When other places, the dogs are always with me. Besides being somewhat of a deterent, they react in certain ways to people being around.

I slept out under the stars, and camped in the back of my truck (usually the back wide open) for years around northern Az. I was very concious of the human element, there simply were a lot of flaky people around, and a high number of traffic stops and vagrant checks that turned up felony warrants. I tended to sleep in different places each nite, tho rarely ever saw people, and if I did see a camp where I was planning to camp, I'd keep moving. I slept many many nites with my pistol either in my hand, or under my pillow, and sometimes with a Winchester carbine between my knees against me. I never had any trouble, tho had heard of others that did. I always had a dog with me also, after I quit riding the motorcycle. The dog could wake me with a very low growl, I'd wake, see where she was looking, and turn the flashlight with red fiter on, it was generally a coyote off a ways, now and then elk or deer. I always figured if any person came around, she'd wake me. I slept very light, and could go back to sleep in a minute after getting up (sure miss that feature of younger life). Just keeping in mind anything could happen, anywhere, keeps you on your toes so to speak. Sleeping out under the stars or even in a tent in grizzly country sort of does that also. Sleeping in a house seems pretty nice, and easy, after all those years playing out in the hills. You don't completely lose the mindset of being aware of what's going on around you, it's just a little different level.

I like a pistol, tho a rifle is better for bears if they aren't standing on you at the time. Never had much use for a shotgun.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:55 pm

Multiple watch dogs inside the home where you are.Outside well lit.
A Glock 20 a foot away w/strobe and a big Buck General (handle out)between mattress/springs on the strong side.
Also a reputation where you live that you are definitely no one to screw with doesn't hurt either.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:05 pm

A locked and alarmed door and a trained dog between your secure area and any point of entry would prevent any such scumbag from ever getting near you unawares, unless you are physiologically incapable of being aroused, in which case, you're just screwed and better hope your wife can fight.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:15 pm

pricedo wrote:
MrMurphy wrote:
If he's already inside without you knowing, you fail.
People should speak for themselves.

There are too many personal & circumstantial variables in any situation to make general rules.

Getting into the house is one thing (not easy at my place), getting into my bedroom is quite another (you WON'T do it undetected, that's a promise).

I've gone to bed & woken up successfully in people unfriendly environments before.

Factors are your training & skills, experience & of course the acuity of your senses.

Muscle memory kicks in for highly trained people when faced with imminent danger cause if you have to think about what to do next you'd better make sure you've written your last will & testament.

You FAIL when your DEAD.

You WIN when it's your opponent who is lying inside the chalk line.

Yeah. The little spotty faced Frog who wanted my Passport & money when I was at a Hostel in Paris in '89 kinda had most of the "advantages" going for him (no dog, home turf, inadequate locks, etc).

But he got a bloody (broken?) nose and a serious case of vulvodynia before he ran off when he realized I got his knife...

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:46 pm

Not sure anyone can get in past beagle and great Dane. If they did, handgun beside me, shotgun against dresser.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:14 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
I think 'outside PIGS' would beat outside dogs, as they'd EAT the intruders, instead of just biting them... :lol

I like the whole "pig" thing--great idea...could start a whole watch pig industry )

Winston Churchill -- I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:02 am

+1 on the comments regarding training, you can never be too prepared. However, I agree with what several have stated, MINDSET is also a key factor. How many times have you heard of the handicapped elderly woman or elderly man that dispatched a sassy bandit with a revolver that they keep handy in the chair that they are seldom able to get out of. This can be a strength and not a weakness if the bad guy takes his physical advantage forgranted and under estimates his intended victim.

IMO, other key factors are being PREPARED, MENTALLY and PHYSICALLY. Being mentally prepared for the elderly can be as simple as having a plan (or two) that they are capable of executing. For some, that PHYSICALLY factor is not an option. Their health has simply deteriorated to where they can be physically dominate in a fight. Thats is where MINDSET and a good EQUALIZER at hand level the playing field!

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:29 am

rjohns94 wrote:Not sure anyone can get in past beagle and great Dane. If they did, handgun beside me, shotgun against dresser.

I'm afraid my old Labrador Retriever would sell me out for a raw serloin.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:51 am

Pricedo, i actually agree with you.

What I meant was, if they are inside the house and you are now aware by waking up.....you've failed in preparation. Thus the layers of defense.

If they've managed to get through all that, well, you did what you could and now it's a different ballgame.

But if you sit there just thinking a basic cheapo door and lock will keep people away......no.

I spent several years as the 'last layer' of security guarding very high value targets. Considering it was the US Gov't, we had a ton of sensors and fences, etc. But we never got complacent as we knew bad things do happen, and someone getting inside our perimeter was entirely possible, so every alarm was treated as for real unless we knew otherwise (like when a sensor went bad and had fifteen back to back alarms while we were physically sitting on top of what it was supposed to be guarding......)

Mindset and preparation matter as do training and the will to live. Some people just don't have it.

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:43 am

MrMurphy wrote: What I meant was, if they are inside the house and you are now aware by waking up.....you've failed in preparation. Thus the layers of defense.

Once I become aware he is in my home I will take the fight to him & he will lose the advantage of offense and become the defender in an environment that is strange to him but that I am intimately familiar with.

This is a contest that he will not survive.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:19 am

It all sounds good what we think/hope we will do.
But, in this case we are at a huge disadvantage(at least most of us)
Sure we all think how bad we all are and we are trained in this and that,but you have to remember what you are possibly dealing with.

A person that might just without a moments notice pop you or slit your throat while you are dreaming about Sally sunshine.

Unfortunately,things have changed in our society and things can go bad for someone very quick.
I don't care who it is on here,your at a HUGE disadvantage.(you care about life/you might think one split second/and they don't)

Let's say you are outside with Fido at night with your flashlight.Dog barks you look(nothing)probably say,come on ####### do you chores(or whatever)then when you are 3 feet from coming around other side of you detached shed---WHAM,this thing jumps out,instantly it's black and instant movement.
Don't care who it is on here----you will be afraid/shocked/for a split second you will be stunned.
Heck,just the other night walking my dog (in the ravine)I am not used to these LED lights,I shined it and somehow the way a small sapling in front of it made a expanded shawdow that I thought(in that very 1/100th of a second it was a bear rushing at me at 5ft away.What did I do(right then)for a split second-------

Same with someone if they are meth'd up and don't care they will just shoot you through your window from outside while you are reading your American Rifleman mag.

All we can do is try(the best we can/think we are ready/but because the other side will kill you before you can blink and not even care one little bit(we are at the disadvantage)

For a feeling of what I am talking about/ever been in a bad place/bad people/your packing/probably thinking something like (I got it covered)then see two of the unknowns bending over lifting a box and both their pieces sticking out from under their jackets.
That got it covered feeling changes quick!
All we can do is what we can do--------------hopefully that is enough?

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:50 am

Great replies, my hope is that people will think about the points being made and beef up their security a bit.
I live in the country where it isn`t to bad but it wasn`t but four miles from me a few years ago a punk broke into a house and killed a lady with a axe then burned the house.
I think i`ll rig up a couple alarms and maybe a couple more motion detectors, better safe than sorry.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:30 am

Pitchy wrote: Got to thinking about it one night while laying in bed and some thoughts came to me about different guns.

Don't ya hate that when that happens!!!

Dogs are great and personally I think they are the first line of defence but dogs aren't for everybody. They aren't very self sufficient and require constant attention and care. Not very good if you're not home much. I've been a dog guy since I was old enough to remember. I wasn't outta my parents house for a week (talking 25 years ago) when I got my very first dog of my own and since then I've had pet dogs, birddogs, hounds, curs and terriers. But the 2 I have now are the last I will own. I figure after the kids are gone I want to be able to come and go for extended periods of time as I please and a dog can be as bad as a kid in this scenario.

But never fail, try a guinea hen, maybe a couple geese. You won't find better outside alarms if you're in the country and their care is minimal.

LK

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:11 am

I don't care where You live "THEY" may be watching. I live in a rural area. there have been two big time home breakins in My township, Lucky no one was home at the time. a nice little cottage sat back in the pine trees down the street for the 30 years I have lived here.last spring the roof blew off and it burned .meth lab.
My Sister lives further out in the country,big century old farmhouse. She was home a few years ago,Sunny spring day with the screen/storm door locked. the driveway swings around back of the house to the porch. She hears a car come up the driveway and doors slam.looks out the window, nasty old car and two nasty looking slimeballs by it. she grabs her revolver in the kitchen and hears one say "try the door". He grabbed the door handle just in time to see Her 100lb rottwiler trying to come thru it. that dog may have saved Her Life...

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:53 am

If you really want to be serious about protection and don't go the dog route install (2) wireless Infrared Sensors about 3ft high(one in your living room)and one in your hallway leading to your bedroom.
Ensure you have working CO2 and smoke detectors also in your bedroom and lock your bedroom door when going to bed.
Adjust the volume of the Alarm to its highest setting.
Also have your cell phone/gun handy.

If you have a watch dog keep him inside but outside of locked bedroom door and place a baby gate prior to the beam path so he can't trip it(the bad guy will probably step over gate)but trip the invisible beam alarm,don't use the other alarm in living room.Yell (while not standing directly in front of locked bedroom door (I have a loaded AK47 and when I come out you ###### are dead)but instead call 911 while crouching in opposite corner away from any window with the gun fixed on door.

That's for people that would feel guilty blowing the trash away!

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:42 am

Some of these thoughts have crossed my mind ---- locally in my area, there has been talk about putting some type of detention facility a few miles from where i live -- i have thought about the possibility of escapees . They would have to cross a lot of barbed wire fences to get at me from the back way, but there is usually a pretty high desire to be free i would imagine.

Like a few of you, i have had top notch military training in my life, including hand to hand, cqb, and handgun training --- but i got out in late 1993 -- that was 18 years ago. Currently i am a middle class fanny burp-knocker who has a hard time sleeping without earplugs ---
- which brings me back to FWiedner's comment -- "what if you are physiologically unable to be aroused?"
I am trying to wean myself off the earplugs, as they are somewhat uncomfortable for long periods - but man i sleep good with them

I've got some tools at my disposal -- glock 20 on the nightstand with flashlight , AR-15 in a nearby closet -- but truly i am relying quite heavilly on my noisy dogs outside - A G20 stoked with Black Talons aint gonna do me much good if i am still in dreamland

In training we were told (informally) to stay out of knifefights because no matter how good you are, you're still going to get cut ---- just like CQB, - no matter how much of a bad-A you are and even if you prevail, there is still a good chance of walking away with a shiner
---- if someone is standing over me with a knife, its like Mr Murphy said, - everything else has broken down in my lines of defense -- i will have to rely on what reflexes i have left and hope i can reach my sidearm before permanent harm is done

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:04 pm

Still gotta believe the Dogs is the best deterrent.
Was kinda funny,about 30 mins ago the big propane truck(for cooking stove)pulls up and monkeys around finally getting it where its parked so it don't go over in the gorge.
The dogs(inside)are going ballistic.The little schnauzer really gets the big guy going.The Lab is down at the basement door banging up against it snarling and the little one is up on a sitting bench barking.
I am thinking,not going to answer the door and see what happens

After the guy does his thing and rewinds his hose/gets the slip and goes down to the basement door(ground level)nowhere to put the slip in(then he puts it under a stone

he shakes his head then looks up at our deck to the upstairs door

As he starts up the deck the schnauzer takes off up the basement stairs barking,Charlie is still down at the other down going nuts.
Just as the guy gets the the top of the stairs on the deck I swear the schnauzer communicated with Charlie (dog talk)saying he is up here.
The guy walking across the deck and I hear what sounds like a herd of horses coming up the cellar steps and the guy actually turns the frigin door knob (its locked)at that second Charlie slams into a custom church pew between the door and the big bow window.
I hear the guy go Holy Sh##
After he leaves it takes about 10mins telling them (he's gone,good job)that Charlie doesn't look like a rabid ruffled up Ridgeback.
Then I go over and see where each end of the pews corners where they meet against the wall it went into the sheet rock and dented it in about 1/2" in and made oblong cracks about the size of an apple.(good thing I kept extra matching paint hope the joint compound is still good in the container or its off to Lowe's.
Yep,Dogs rule! (SICK EM)

ps,------------looking at the slip/bill, what's up with all these extra costs now with the propane companies.
$6------Hazmatt employee training fund
$3------Tank maint insp fee
$1.78---Employee Worker Comp & Benefits allocation Fund
$3.32----Transfer of hazardous material
WTF????????????????? Heck pretty soon that will be more than the LP

Guess I shouldn't complain and pay it, if power ever does go out its nice to just turn on a front burner (on low) and it will pretty much heat the place.
Right now heat 85% electric/15% Oil (and we actually stay warm in this place, 73 degrees )

kragluver · Post by **kragluver** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:20 pm

We keep our alarm set at night and the dogs typically sleep in our bedroom. The wife and I both have .45's in our bedside safes and there is a 12 ga in a ShotLock mounted on the wall.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:58 pm

I may of missed it but has anyone concidered pepper spray, might be a good choice if you have family members .
A quick spray of that could give ya a little more time for plan B.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:22 pm

Pitchy, I think pepper is good stuff, but I wouldn't trust it as my only option, for people or critters. It seems that it's effective on about 97% of people and animals, the other 3% don't seem to be affected by it for some reason, at least not in a debilitating way. Just someting to keep in mind when using pepper.

I understand that some panic rooms have a port that allows those inside to pepper someone standing outside the door without opening it, and is somehow arranged so they can't use it in return, tho I believe the idea is that they don't know it's there until it sprays.

As far as defensive achitecture, having a window that covers the door is a good idea, where one can see who's at the door before opening it, preferably from the side or behind, and fire if needed. Smallish windows that can be opened quickly and quietly are the idea, tho just seeing someone when they don't know you can see them is nice.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:22 pm

BlaineG wrote:My bedside comfort of choice is the 1911.

Hope your wife doesn't get jealous...

Actually, in my case, the humane thing would be to just shoot them, but if I was really mad at them, I'd leave the gun aside, and just sic my wife on them!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:34 pm

madman4570 wrote:Let's say you are outside with Fido at night with your flashlight.Dog barks you look(nothing)probably say,come on ####### do you chores(or whatever)then when you are 3 feet from coming around other side of you detached shed---WHAM,this thing jumps out,instantly it's black and instant movement.
Don't care who it is on here----you will be afraid/shocked/for a split second you will be stunned.
Heck, just the other night walking my dog (in the ravine) I am not used to these LED lights,I shined it and somehow the way a small sapling in front of it made a expanded shawdow that I thought (in that very 1/100th of a second it was a bear rushing at me at 5ft away.What did I do (right then) for a split second-------

Same with someone if they are meth'd up and don't care they will just shoot you through your window from outside while you are reading your American Rifleman mag.

All we can do is try(the best we can/think we are ready/but because the other side will kill you before you can blink and not even care one little bit (we are at the disadvantage).

That pretty much sums it up.

As I tell my patients (who often ask about self-defense stuff in the context of dealing with after-assault care like STD checks after rapes, etc.) - in real life, there is no scary music just before something bad happens...!