Atlatl anyone?

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JReed
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Atlatl anyone?

Post by JReed »

Many folks feel they were born in the wrong century lately I have been feeling like I was born in the wrong epoch. So in that vane I took a step back to the Pleistocene the age of mega fauna and made my self a couple Atlatls ( Woomera for our brothers from the land of Oz). The first one was made with some 1X4" pine board I had on hand and whitetail antler. The second one I made literally from scratch as you can see from my photos. Enjoy

My first one.
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Here is the new one I made today.

This was a White Oak that was blown down by Irene this summer that I took a 3' chunk out of and started to split in to slats
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A couple of the slats I split off. (yes those are the tools I used for this job start to finish)
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I like the grain of this stuff
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Here I am planing it down to shape with one of my belt knives (Sorry to the purists but I dont have any flint knives :wink: )
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And here it is after sanding. I think I will just give it a rubbing with beeswax and let it age with use. Still love the color of the grain. It is my version of a style made by a peoples from the south western U.S.
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You hold this style split fingered similar to throwing a ball.
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Now to make some darts and track down a mastodon :lol:
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

Very cool, i had no idea what they did until you mentioned the darts. Those are the things they throw those long arrows with too isn`t it.
We need a demonstration. 8)
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by JerryB »

Looks like it will work. That oak looks like it would make a nice long bow while you are at it. See if your library has a copy of The Art of Making Primitive Bows and Arrows, written by D.C. Waldorf. I've had the books for about ten years, very detailed and easy to follow. You can use most any straight grain wood such as the oaks, red cedar, fruit trees nut trees, and ofcourse osage.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by WCF3030 »

SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do the boys get to use them. 8) :twisted:
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by eric65 »

I believe that particular t shirt can't be worn outside of northern Indiana 8)
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by JReed »

WCF3030 wrote:SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do the boys get to use them. 8) :twisted:
Theirs are the next ones on the build list. :D

Pitchy yes they are the long "arrows" this is what precede the bow. I have some cane drying in the garage once dry I will straighten it out and make up some fore-shafts and points.

JerryB I will look into it and see.

The cool thing about the base I am on is active duty can get free permits to gather wood from down trees on base. I am allowed a cord a month and with the amount of downed oaks here from the hurricane I wont be running out anytime soon. :D

This gent has been very helpful and is a wealth of knowledge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8vctRvj ... qhNiLqsBmF

Eric wonderd if you would catch that :lol:
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Pitchy wrote:Very cool, i had no idea what they did until you mentioned the darts. Those are the things they throw those long arrows with too isn`t it.
We need a demonstration. 8)
Glad I wasn't the only one! Heck, if Pitchy doesn't recognize something right away, I don't feel bad at all not knowing!
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Buck Elliott »

The atlatl is an amazing tool.. It could be thought of as the "original lever-action" weapon..
I haven't had one for 30 years or so, but I did make some for my oldest boys. Maybe its time to build me another one.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

Nice how to there guy. Good pictures !
I love to make stuff as you might have surmised.

Now to knap out a few flint points for them arrows you are makin. :wink:
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by JReed »

Buck yes it is. Montana, Missouri, Alabama and Pennsylvania allow them for the taking of game animals. I have been interested in them since I was a kid just never got around to making one. My youngest is quite impressed and thinks they are cool. :D

Chuck I will be making a few glass points out of bottle bottoms first. They make new beer bottles ever day. They stopped making flint a few million years ago so I would rather mess up the recyclable stuff. Plus green or blue glass points would just look cool 8)
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Buck Elliott »

The darts were longer and heavier than arrous, many being 4' or longer, and more than 1/2" in diameter..

It's a lot of fun to practice with them, and accuracy can be amazing, if you work at it..
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

Great video bro, looks like fun, heck under 20 yards i guy could stick a deer with one.
Hmmmmm
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by JerryB »

check in some of the junk shops in the tools, look for a spoke shave. It will be well worth a few bucks to work down you wood. I have three of them plus five or six draw knifes.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

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Pitchy wrote:Great video bro, looks like fun, heck under 20 yards i guy could stick a deer with one.
Hmmmmm
Guys were sticking critters larger then that with them. Some believe that their us started the decline of mammoth and other ice age critters. Two guys took deer during Missouri's deer season this year. One was 30 yards from a tree stand.

Buck
Quite right. The ones I am making up are 6' cane shafts the completed darts should weigh around 7oz with points and fletched. Big difference when you consider most arrows weigh around 400grn.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Blaine »

In the video, the darts were really whippy....is that better than ridged?
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

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JerryB wrote:check in some of the junk shops in the tools, look for a spoke shave. It will be well worth a few bucks to work down you wood. I have three of them plus five or six draw knifes.
That and a good draw knife are for sure on my shopping list. There is a swap meet not far from me that has a few vendors that have old wood working tools. I will have to get out there this weekend to see what I can find.

Blane yes they are spined in the same way that Arrows are spined for draw weight. It allows the point to stay on target while the rest of the shaft accelerates with the thrower. Look at some slow mo videos of long bow shooting with wood arrows you see the same thing but on the horizontal plane instead.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by TMair »

What amazes me is how inventive our early ancestors were!!
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by awp101 »

TMair wrote:What amazes me is how inventive our early ancestors were!!
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Very cool JReed! :mrgreen:
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Buck Elliott »

Primitive hunters here in the Big Horn Basin hunted Mastodon with atlatl.. It must have been quite a party, when they could get on one and bring it down.. Some friends of mine have a fossilized Mastodon vertebra with an embedded stone point, that was found on their ranch.caches have been found which contained both throwing sticks and darts, as well as other hunting paraphernalia...
Last edited by Buck Elliott on Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by InTheWoods »

Atlatls were legalized for deer hunting in Missouri a couple of years ago. Two Missouri deer were killed with this weapon this year.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/j ... ng-season/

edited: oops, I guess I kind of repeated a previous post. Sorry.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

JReed: Thanks for posting on one of my favorite topics. Tom Mills --Paleoaleo on Youtube -- has a wonderful Web site called Paleo Planet, and one of the forums is the home of the World Atlatl Association. Each year in late spring, they have an atlatl get-together at the Valley of Fire near Las Vegas, camping among rock formations that bear original rock drawings of hunters using atlatls!
I've made a dozen or so, and have found the simple, slender "basketmaker" styles the easiest to use. My two favorites are made of juniper and hazel. I find the much stiffer throwing board types awkward. My favorite tools are a small finger plane, a draw knife and some small gouges for cutting the notches and hollows.

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I traded Oregon obsidian for a batch of Kansas river cane for shafts. I find the cane works best with a "foot" of fire-hardened hazel, as it needs weight forward to fly well and store energy. My favorite dart material by far is red osier dogwood, which is abundant in the Pacific northwest along mountain streams. It's great for a number of reasons that native peoples appreciated. It grows relatively straight, and is easy to straighten by hand or with a bit of heat. It peels easily, and it normally has a very uniform taper. I like darts in the 5-7 foot range, and spining around 7 pounds. Engineers who have studied the atlatl system concluded that the atlatl itself extends the leverage of the arm, and the dart, when of the right spine and material, stores energy like a spring. That snakey motion you see is that spring energy helping propel the dart to the target. A too-stiff dart is lifeless on the throw. My first darts were made with hardware-store dowels. Worthless! I couldn't believe how the atlatl came alive with a proper dart.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

Awesome Bill 8) , i`m making one per your guys instructions and pictures as we speak. :)
Will post a pic soon.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by rjohns94 »

Fantastic topic It stirs the ancient in me! Well done on the how to and photos of completed projects.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by JReed »

Bill those are nice :D . I am really liking the split finger design so much more of a natural throwing motion then the hammer grip of some of them. I will be finishing the finger loops with raw hide and will update this when I have it finished. Right now I have a bunch of switch cane drying in my garage that I will be making into darts. Most of it spines out at 6-7.5 lbs and should work nicely and is abundant around here. I have been talking with Tom (Paleoaleo) on the Paleoplanet.net forum and have watched all his videos. Great source of info and a nice helpful guy.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

Got one started, have to put some weight on it yet.
The arrow is a longbow arrow i just put on there to see how it looks, i`m going to make steel points for the darts like this arrow.
The ball on the arrow i put on so there was a hole for the point to go in.
Hope ya don`t mind me posting pics too.

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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by RustyJr »

Looks good pitchy. JReed, have you heard of putting a weight near the head (im guessing thats what it would be called, the part where the back of the dart rests on the atlatl) to counteract the flex of the dart prior to the release? I have heard of this but dont know how often it was used.



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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Idahoser »

what good timing! I just got done reading the first three stories in the "Earth's Children" series by Jean M. Auel- Clan of the Cave Bear, Valley of Horses, and Mammoth Hunters. Your tool factors into the story very well.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

Well here`s what i came up with, flys pretty good.

63 in. dart, steel tip

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Image

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Brass weight.

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Thanks Jeremy :)
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Mac in Mo »

Good thread. I have really been interested in these lately. I live in Mo. and there has been quite a bit of coverage of the success of the hunters here. Keep the photos coming please.

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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Pitchy, that longer dart is getting where you want to be. I find atlatls that have some spring in them work better for me vs. the stiffer throwing board types common among the eskimo and many other cultures.
The whole science of adding stone weights, "bannerstones," that could be tuned up and down the shaft of the thrower to alter the node and load points of the thrower is an exercise in real paleo engineering.
Here is a wonderful reference from Paleoplanet. Just look at the vareity of approaches!

http://www.thudscave.com/npaa/designs/
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

Book marked that Bill thanks.
I took the leather finger holes off and drilled a 7/8 ths hole in the wood for my index finger, made for a better grip.

JReed bro, i feel like i`m hogging in on your thread so i`ll just look until you say it`s ok to contribute on your thread.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Mike D. »

I have not used an atlatl but do have a number of paleolithic dart points that I have found in Northern Nevada and Southern Oregon. These two points are examples of what are referred to as "Parman" darts. One is made from Modoc Obsidian, the other Agatized Petrified Wood The type was in common use in the Great Basin from 11000 to 9000 YBP, or more familiarly from 9000 to 7000 BC.Image
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

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Pitchy wrote:Book marked that Bill thanks.
I took the leather finger holes off and drilled a 7/8 ths hole in the wood for my index finger, made for a better grip.

JReed bro, i feel like i`m hogging in on your thread so i`ll just look until you say it`s ok to contribute on your thread.
Brother i am lovin what you have going no hard feelings here. :D My only thing on yours is my fist one made from board stock is heavy at 7.9oz after using it a few times I started having pain in my elbow. My new lighter thrower is a pure joy and causes me no discomfort. Just food for thought what works for you works for you. :D

Mike those are some cool finds.

Idohoser I read those back when I was in 6th grade that is sort of what got me interested. Also as a kid I would run around the deserts of Ca, NV, and AZ checking out old ghost towns and Paleo Indian sites saw many pictographs with drawings of hunters using atlatls.

I did some more work on mine this evening. I shaved some thickness off the back bringing it down to about 1/4" thick in most of its length. When I weighed it last it weighed 4.8oz. After what I did this evening it is down to 3.5oz :D I also finished it with my BP patch lube ( equal parts Crisco and beeswax with 4 Tbls of olive oil) this really made the grain of the heart wood section pop with out darkening the sap wood. I will take some pics here in a bit and post them in a bit.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

Brother i am lovin what you have going no hard feelings here. My only thing on yours is my fist one made from board stock is heavy at 7.9oz after using it a few times I started having pain in my elbow. My new lighter thrower is a pure joy and causes me no discomfort. Just food for thought what works for you works for you.
Whew glad all is good :)
Don`t worry i plan on making a couple more of different designs.
Looking forward to seeing your pictures. 8) 8)
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

The location of the weight makes a big difference it seems, i had it toward the outer end before now it`s a lot snappier.
Also the change i made on the handle.

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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Old No7 »

Awesome and interesting post Gunny!

With some help from Pitchy and the gang here too!

I can't even spell "Pleisto-whatever".......... What epoch are you from anyway?!?!

(I just remember having an "epic" great time when I visited you and your wonderful family out at Camp Pendleton many years ago.)

Now...

Are you going to call in a coyote and nail 'em with that Atlatl for me?!?!?! :wink:

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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by JReed »

Ok here are some pics that I just snapped the coloring is more dramatic in person. I am gonna have to cut some more logs from this tree it is some pretty stuff

Image
Image
Image

The guys on here that have met me can back me up when I say that I am a tall guy with long arms so this one is a bit longer then average to match my size. Over all length is 25 1/2" with an 1 1/4" width.
Image

Nice and thin now with just a touch of flex.
Image

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That was a good visit. When you get tired of that Yankee snow you are more then welcome to come down here and hang out on the beach with me :D Dont know about pokin dogs with one any time soon got to get some ammo loaded for it and head the range to get the sights dialed in :wink: :D .

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I like it. How do you like the one finger hole so far?
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

That`s lookin real purdy bro 8)
I haven`t tried throwing with the one hole yet as we are having winter temps and wind.
I`m going to follow your lead and thin mine like you did to lighten the tip.

I might make this design tomorrow, i like the looks, thanks for the link to that pic Bill.

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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by JReed »

Those are slick looking. I look forward to seeing how yours looks thinned out.

I think I like this one for my next attempt. http://cart.occpaleo.com/mesoamericanstyleatlatl.aspx he sells the frog finger loops. I will substitute oak instead of the rose wood he used as I have lots free for the taking and free is good.
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Old Ironsights »

JReed wrote:...The guys on here that have met me can back me up when I say that I am a tall guy with long arms so this one is a bit longer then average to match my size. ...
It's true. He's an atypical Jarhead. He's a SKINNY Gorilla. :mrgreen:
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

Cool, like the frogs and the animal ones. 8)
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by ollogger »

All to cool guys
last nite when i first seen this, I could see Pitchys wheels turning
so im not surprized, but im impressed by everones talent here
Mike D thems some awesome rocks ya got there, Ive got a hint
ya may have a few more?
ollogger
MrMurphy
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by MrMurphy »

I've shot bows, used spears, etc.......never tried an atlatl (haven't had one around to try).


I remember some years back a zoo elephant died and scientific testing was conducted on penetration with an atlatl using various weight and size darts, and skinning and quartering, etc was tested with modern repro flint and obsidian tools.

Unsurprisingly, they did a pretty good job.

I'd still take a .416 over an atlatl (or even a squad of longbowmen) but they were far from unarmed if going up against a mammoth.
Bill in Oregon
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Jeremy, I like the looks of that one: slim, trim and springy. Like you I have found that these qualities have a huge impact on how comfortable they are to use for a hundred dart throws or more. The throwing boards tend to be painful to me, although I may not have my technique down. But the very simple basketmakers are very comfy.
By the way, I have been finishing my atlatls with beaver oil (rendered from scrapings left over from processing beaver skins). A friend recently sent me some rendered bear lard patch grease and I am eager to try that, too.

Here is a link to a classic in archaeology, including an analysis of the atlatls in Roaring Springs Cave, excavated in the 1930s by Luther Cressman:

http://scholarsarchive.library.oregonst ... sequence=1

You'll note that the atlatl second from right in my photo resembles on from Roaring Springs. It was one of the first I attempted, and my ignorance led me to construct a copy that was far too stiff and heavy to be useful. But it looked cool.

Mike D.: Where are you in NorCal?
2571
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by 2571 »

I've got an atlatl for throwing tennis balls my dog.

Does not work well for this purose because it throws ball beyond sight range of most dogs.
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JReed
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by JReed »

Bill
I saved the PDF so I can take the proper time to read it thanks of posting it. I had some time to toss my way to stiff carbon arrow shaft dart this morning this light thrower flicks it out to 70 yards with little effort if I really put some mustard on it close to 150 yards I for see as quite doable. :D :D I will take a pic of this dart and put it up later this evening.

2571
funny thing about those is millions of folks buy those ball throwers and don't even know that that is what they really are. :D
Jeremy
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To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
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Pitchy
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

Got this model and another dart done, i really like the feel of this one and the positive hold on the arrow for hunting .
When the weather warms a bit i`ll have to get a vid throwing.

Bill what did you find wrong with wood dowls say in 1/2 inch dia.
With a steel point and lots of feather you would think they would fly good.

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Because I Can, and Have
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Pitchy
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

Here`s the other one Jeremy after i thinned it out, can flex it now so should put a little snap to it.
Gotta find something neat to make a weight for the other one.

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Because I Can, and Have
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
Bill in Oregon
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Pitchy: The dowel dart vs. natural dogwood is like the difference between a four-iron and a No. 4-weight fly rod. One is dead and clunky and the other is full of vibration and life. You can get the dowels to fly, but not nearly as far, in my experience.
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Pitchy
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Re: Atlatl anyone?

Post by Pitchy »

Ok, this stuff i`m making them from now is just brush, not a hard wood.
Does a guy want the weight of hardwood?
Because I Can, and Have
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
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