OT - 577 Martini-Henry Questions

coachise · Post by **coachise** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:36 pm

A carbine version of one of these just showed in my local gunshop (for real cheap). I've done a little internet research tonight. Seems like an interesting and historic firearm.
I recall occasional forum topics about these on the old forum. A search shows 6 on this forum, none really talking about firearm itself.
Who's got one? What can tell me about about brass and bullets? Has anyone done conversions? $138 for 20 cartridges (Ten-X) doesn't really "trip my trigger." And, at this point, I'm really not sure if it's 577/.450 or 577 Snyder.
I guess I'm looking for a reason to buy or not buy this rifle. Can anyone help me here?

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:00 am

As you've seen, ammo is 'spensive. You can roll your own but the only folks I've seen that do it are die hard MH enthusiasts because it's slightly less than a punishment beating from what I've read.

I'm not 100% either were offered in a "carbine" configuration. www.ima-usa.com has real Martini-Henry's and Nepalese copies. Check there to see if it matches any of the configurations listed.

I really want one but not bad enough to pay the admission or the cost of feeding one.

BTW, the MH is an "underlever" and IIRC the Snider has a hammer and breech block similar to a Trapdoor.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:02 am

BTW, define "cheap".

Direct link to the MH rifles at IMA:

http://www.ima-usa.com/index.php/cPath/ ... b2c8b749cb

I want one sooooooooooo bad!

coachise · Post by **coachise** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:24 am

Well..........cheap as in $229. I know should be a no-brainer, cheapest I've seen on GB is $595.
I've continued my research, also. It's a definitely a 577/.450 MH Artillery model. Tons of proof marks on it. I didn't give it as close as an inspection as I would have liked. There's a Trapdoor Springfield at the shop that distracts me.
Midway has brass and dies. $116 for 20 casings.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:34 am

Duh, I forgot about the Arty models and there were cabines made. That's what happens when I stay up past my bedtime...

OK, be VERY CAREFUL because this COULD be a Kybher Pass copy and probably unsafe to fire.

I forgot, I have a couple of MH websites in my favorites that you should check out thoroughly and look at it again with that knowledge in mind:

http://www.martinihenry.com/
http://www.martinihenry.co.uk/

perry owens · Post by **perry owens** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:34 am

Martini Henry carbines were chambered in .577/450 and later 0.303 British. You need to be very wary when buying any martini these days as there are a lot of "Khyber Pass Specials" being brought back by troops stationed in Afghanistan. Most of these are cheap forgeries that would not be safe to shoot. The IMA/ Atlanta Cutlery Martinis were made in Nepal on British machinery and are genuine antiques. However, they have been offered for several years and I think they are getting to the end of the pile, so the best have gone. Most have good bores but you need to look for pitting of the barrels below the for-end wood due to damp storage.
Jamison make lower- cost brass but because of their military contracts production is very limited just now. At a pinch you can form 577/450 cases from Magtech 24 gauge brass shotshells if you have a good die set and are used to annealing brass. The least expensive Martini Henrys are the long-lever Mark IV's, with the Zulu War era models being most collectible. Carbines are generally worth more than rifles. I have a Martini Henry 577/450 and three 577 Sniders that I shoot regularly. Personally I find the Sniders more fun to shoot and much cheaper to feed since I form Snider brass from 24 gauge brass shotshells at $18/25.
Perry Owens

coachise · Post by **coachise** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:49 am

Thanks for the info guys. I'll go down tomorrow and take a closer look. It sure looked authentic. Now that I've got some background information from you and the WWW, I can ask some semi-intelligent questions. I'll let you know what I find out.

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:21 am

Get as much info as you can from crawling all over the gun and then check with these fellas:

1. Martini Henry Rifle Collector's Forum at http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/martini- ... l?noframes , and

2.Martini Henry Forum at http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/

If it's the genuine article, that is dirt cheap.

shawn_c992001 · Post by **shawn_c992001** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:46 am

I 've got a 577-450 rifle which came from Atlanta Cutlery around 3-4 years ago. It is almost pristine, and the bore is perfect. It took the better part of a weekend to clean the cosmoline from the gun.

It's a pretty good shooter I can get 2" groups at 100 yards with a Lead Sled, and ammo from Buffalo Arms. General shooting there is a draw back, this thing kicks like a magnum.

There are many of loads for these guns if you do reload most average around 100gr of black powder and there are quite a few with smokeless.

I'd pounce on the M-H in a heartbeat. Maybe you'll get the ammo for a birthday or Christmas.

perry owens · Post by **perry owens** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:06 am

I would be very suspicious of these
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index. ... =GO&Page=1
Though, to be fair, they do say that they could be dangerous to shoot!

Perry Owens

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:46 am

perry owens wrote:I would be very suspicious of these
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index. ... =GO&Page=1
Though, to be fair, they do say that they could be dangerous to shoot!

Perry Owens

I bet those are KP copies. No caliber listed and SOG got stuck with a bunch a couple of years ago. The only reason SOG put a warning in was because a bunch of collectors called them and let them know they would be liable if one KB'd. CFS probably got them from SOG.

2 big clues a MH is a KP copy are the "N" in ENFIELD is backwards and VR dates AFTER Queen Victoria died (1902 or 03 IIRC).

I saw a .303 MH carbine at a show around a year ago and started to get excited when I saw the reasonable price. Then looking at the markings I found the backwards N and a VR date of 1915.

cas · Post by **cas** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:34 pm

That and the fact that SOG was selling them as pre 1899 guns, sans FFL involvement, even though they were much newer guns.

FWIW.. my 577-450 load is 70grs by volume of APP and fill the case neck with Pufflon. It's a pussycat to shoot, and plenty good for my purposes.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:37 pm

cas, what is Pufflon?

cas · Post by **cas** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:45 pm

http://www.pufflon.com/newfront.html

budliteguy · Post by **budliteguy** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:10 pm

I'd go with the Trapdoor, easier to reload for and you can buy blackpowder cowboy action reloads for a whole lot less than for the Martini/Henry. What kind of Trapdoor is it and whats the price?

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:01 am

cas wrote:http://www.pufflon.com/newfront.html

Ah, thanks!