M94 at the range

[zoner]

I've been shooting a M94 Winchester for almost 50 yrs....the same one,a 1942 vintage. Action slick as snot, trigger breaks at 3.25 lbs. Met a co-worker at the range yesterday and he brought along a M94 44 magnum he'd been telling me about. I was interested in shooting his gun just to see how much recoil a 44 mag had in a rifle(never shot one). He shot it some with his son then handed it off to me. The reciever on my old M94 is blued and this rifle it appeared to be some kind of black finish( kinda like paint). My rifle cycled much smoother than his. I put two in the magazine, cycled the lever and squeezed the trigger but it didn't go bang,click,nothing. Looked at the hammer and it was down. My buddy says "after you cycle the lever you need to cock the hammer with your thumb, that's the way it's supposed to work". Huh? I'm no expert but it seems to me if the hammer follows the bolt down (doesnt stay cocked) when you cycle the action of a levergun something is way wrong, but once again I'm no expert.....Mike

[J Miller]

You are correct, the hammer should be cocked after the action is cycled.
If it follows the bolt down there is something very wrong with it.

Joe

[kimwcook]

Yep, something wrong there.

[AJMD429]

Never heard of a levergun like that, although I once had a Ruger P-85 that had the 'flip on the safety and the hammer falls' thing...

I know it's "normal" for those pistols to do that, but needless to say, I went back to a 1911...

Never heard of a levergun doing that, though...

[Griff]

Broken.

[Pitchy]

Broken.

And probably dangerous.

[turnkey]

Only one I've ever seen do that was a Spencer .

[Griff]

I had a longer version typed, but lost it due to cell coverage. Anyway... tell your co-worker to get it fixed. NO Winchester 94 was fitted up like that! From the sounds of your description it's a 1969-70 production 44Mag. I one like that stolen. Made in '69, and if the thief that stole mine treated it anything like the Ruger BH he also stole... that could be mine! Not likely... but... just sayin'!

There are several causes that might cause a 94 to act like that. You might first suspect that the sear would be broken, but if it holds the hammer when manually pulling the hammer back, it probably isn't... although, it could only be chipped (not enough engagement). (My 2nd suspect). Another would be if any parts had been replaced interrupting the lever/link/bolt geometry... to where the bolt didn't push the hammer back far enough to engage the sear. It could also be pin wear on any of the three pins the connect those three parts. (My 3fd suspect). Next would be wear on the hammer screw, the hole it rides in, or the pin and holes in the trigger and sear. (My 4th suspect). For suspicions 2 and 3, it would have probably have been thru some very sandy, dirty eras, and saw little to no cleaning. I have a 1929 mdl 94 that was the constant outdoor companion of at least two different cowboys, neither of whom were meticulous about their cleaning of the little carbine... in fact there is no finish at all on the metal and the left side of the wood looks like it was bathed in acid... no finish whatsoever and deep pits and splits where horse sweat has ate away at the wood. Still functions flawlessly though. Lastly, it could just be accumulated grit and dirt on the top of the shelf where the trigger presses up on the sear. That additional layer(s) of dirt could be holding the sear out away from being engaged with the hammer. Forcing the hammer farther back by hand could be then forcing the sear back into engagement as the bottom of the hammer could press on the sear moving it back slightly. (My 1st suspect).

BTW, if you notice my use of the word "suspect), it is entirely intentional... my stolen 94 was like new. It was less than 5 years old at the time it was stolen tho' I'd only had it two years, I bought thru the Navy Exchange, (in the Phillipines to be exact), new in box in 1972 and it was stolen in 1974. I'd have to dig a little to get the serial number... but, there's a reward! Oh yea, the reward... the original retail purchase price!!! Yep, I'm a cheap so 'n so!

Anyway, back to the troubled carbine, (Winchester made NO rifle versions of the .44Mag in those two years); take it apart and clean it. If it then works, it was my #1 suspect. If the hammer is really loose on it's screw, that's likely to be the cause (screw or hole thru the hammer). The screw should be a simple "slip" fit thru the hammer. If that's tight, try pushing forward on the trigger and working the action... if it engages the sear (as it should), then you've narrowed it down to either the trigger/sear/hammer or the bolt/lever/link geometries are wrong. A simple fix for the trigger/sear/hammer geometry is to put a small spring between the trigger and sear... this will hold the sear back... and it eliminates the "floppy" trigger most 94s are complained about. The only really press fit pin is the lever/bolt pin. It should be tight. The pin at the front of the link should be like the hammer screw, a "slip" fit, with no appreciable wiggle.

Disassembly instructions can be found at several places on the web... my favorite is Maruarder's Rifle Tune-ups. Mohave Gambler and our own Tycer have given good write-ups on the Winchester 94. Let your co-worker know that his gun has a problem. That condition is an "Accidental Discharge" waiting for a particularily BAD place and time to happen! While the 94 has a floating firing pin, (no spring to hold it off the primer), and it takes a smart blow to move it forward with enough velocity to pop a cap, who's to say that one day the hammer stays back long enough to close the locking lug, and then fly forward.

[zoner]

thanks for the info. I already called him and told him NOT to fire that gun till this is checked out and resolved. I also wodered why it would cock manually but wouldn't when the bolt comes back....Mike

[JB]

Broken.

And probably dangerous.

+1

[pwl44m]

If You recall I had an old Mod 94 that did the same thing. But I think My hammer had been ground down to try and slick up the cycling. I replaced the hammer with an old original and problem solved. Not saying this is the problem with Your Friends gun but unless it has been shot thousands and thousands of rounds I caint see it being wore out. Dirt could be a problem but if it cocks manually that might be a little remote. I'll bet that there are several on this forum that if They had the Gun in hand in less than 40 seconds They would find the problem. While many problems can be solved on a forum this one has a lot of variables.
Perry--- My Penny