.401 220-230 gr Kieth

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:16 pm

Anyone know if anyone makes one?

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:44 pm

The reason I quit messing with .41's years ago was because all I could ever find in a .401 was a 210 grain. The selection doesn't seem to have improved all that much over the years. Try Veral Smith, he'll make you a Keith style or make you one of his own.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?board=114.0

336A · Post by **336A** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:11 pm

Rusty, I'm pretty sure that sore shoulder is asking about .401" cast bullets not .410" bullets. There are plenty of Keith style SWC around in .410" if you look around I can think of at least 4 off the top of my head. Bullet selection for the .41 is not as bad as you make it to be.

Sore shoulder I think you might have to get some .410" bullets and size them down in a .401" sizer to get what you want. What are you loading for anyway, a .401 Herter's PowerMag by chance?

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:08 pm

Sorry guys, should have specified, .401 for a 10mm

336A · Post by **336A** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:19 pm

I don't know well that would work out for you. The length of the nose on a keith bullet is pretty long and may make the OAL to long to fit in the magazine. This fella found that to be true in his case anyway http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=142072

336A · Post by **336A** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:22 pm

Oooops I miss spoke it was the meplat that gave him trouble.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:11 pm

You may not be able to go very heavy in a true Keith style in a 40, tho I'm not sure.

I've succesfully loaded the 250-260 gr Keith 45 Colt bullet (the true Lyman/Keith mould) in the 45 auto. It isn't extra heavy for caliber tho, and is a pretty short squatty bullet, and didnt intrude on powder space much, or stick out too far. It fed fine in my stock Colt Combat Commander years ago. A truncated cone type may work better, so long as you don't get the full diameter of the bullet hanging up on the front edge of the chamber throat or rifling in the particular gun you plan to use it in. Hand chambering a round slowly would tell the tale, it would show rifling marks on the bullet if it was too fat ahead of the case when seated to a usable length.

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:46 pm

Look at Accurate Moulds 41-220K. Tom will gladly downsize it for you, to fit your 10mm. That is, if you cast your own.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:13 am

Call Bernie at Old West over in Fruita, bet he'ld build you one.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:13 am

Don McDowell wrote:Call Bernie at Old West over in Fruita, bet he'ld build you one.

Thanks Don, I'll try that. Slid by your area (literally) monday.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:05 am

Yeh we haven't been gettting much snow but what we have got has been wet...
Raining this morning, so should be a good blizzard, have nearly a 1/4 of the calves on the ground....
Bernie's moulds are brass and cast like a dream, don't cost alot ,especially for the quality.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:39 am

Don McDowell wrote:Yeh we haven't been gettting much snow but what we have got has been wet...
Raining this morning, so should be a good blizzard, have nearly a 1/4 of the calves on the ground....
Bernie's moulds are brass and cast like a dream, don't cost alot ,especially for the quality.

Ohhh they are molds, lol I thought he was a bullet maker. I'm not a caster, yet, but I'll keep it in mind. They closed I25 from Wheatland to Cheyenne the next day I guess, I couldn't figure out why it was open when I went through but glad it was. Cars and semi's off the road everywhere from the ice. Saw a lot of new calves on the way down from Cody, hope it's a good year.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:01 pm

They got 25 closed from Chugwater to Wellington this morning...
No wind here yet, it was 37 at 6 this morning and rain/sprinkling, stilldrizzles a bit off and on, this could be a doozer of a storm the way it feels out there..

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:10 pm

I think I'll see if Mt Baldy can resize some .410's for me.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:14 pm

Here's your source: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalo ... b696b3f29d

They will cycle just fine in your 10mm autoader if seated properly

If this is for an autoloader.... swc's won't likely cycle and will be too long, but they'd be fine for something like a S&W revolver.

What gun is this intended for? I've got a G20 and recently bought a storm lake 6" barrel for it - that'd be perfect for these boolits.

What propellant/charge are you planning to use? I see loads listed with AA#9 and Power Pistol for 200 grain boolits... I figure those would be the ones for this too - should be able to get around 1050 fps?

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:42 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:Here's your source: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalo ... b696b3f29d

They will cycle just fine in your 10mm autoader if seated properly If this is for an autoloader.... swc's won't likely cycle and will be too long, but they'd be fine for something like a S&W revolver.

What gun is this intended for? I've got a G20 and recently bought a storm lake 6" barrel for it - that'd be perfect for these boolits.

What propellant/charge are you planning to use? I see loads listed with AA#9 and Power Pistol for 200 grain boolits... I figure those would be the ones for this too - should be able to get around 1050 fps?

Thanks OSOK. Been carrying Double Tap in my G20 for a couple years now, but switched to Buffalo Bore after reading a lot of people aren't getting the velocities published by Double Tap. In any event I would rather use the Kieth style and I think I can make it work. I would like to get 1200fps or better from a 6" barrel.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:04 pm

sore shoulder wrote:
O.S.O.K. wrote:Here's your source: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalo ... b696b3f29d

They will cycle just fine in your 10mm autoader if seated properly If this is for an autoloader.... swc's won't likely cycle and will be too long, but they'd be fine for something like a S&W revolver.

What gun is this intended for? I've got a G20 and recently bought a storm lake 6" barrel for it - that'd be perfect for these boolits.

What propellant/charge are you planning to use? I see loads listed with AA#9 and Power Pistol for 200 grain boolits... I figure those would be the ones for this too - should be able to get around 1050 fps?
Thanks OSOK. Been carrying Double Tap in my G20 for a couple years now, but switched to Buffalo Bore after reading a lot of people aren't getting the velocities published by Double Tap. In any event I would rather use the Kieth style and I think I can make it work. I would like to get 1200fps or better from a 6" barrel.

1200 fps from a 6" barrel? Not in a Glock or any other repeating handgun... you must have a TC

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:04 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:
1200 fps from a 6" barrel? Not in a Glock or any other repeating handgun... you must have a TC

Yes from G20. And actually it will be the 6.6 Lone wolf barrel. If Double tap can get 230gr to do 1150 from a G20 regular barrel, and Buffalo bore can get 1201 from a 5" barrel with a 220gr, I don't see why I can't do it with a 6.6" barrel. Especially after seeing what COSteve is getting for a 6". The reason I dont like the Double Tap bullet is it's an LBT design, which is known for being inaccurate at longer distances. John Linebaugh told me personally one day he could watch them spiral by the sun glinting off the gas check past 50 yards. I'd rather use a truncated cone than an LBT profile if I can't get a Kieth, which I am fully confident I can.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... tail&p=219

Item 21C

Heavy 10mm Ammo - 220 gr. Hard Cast - FN (1200 fps/ME 703 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box
Item 21C (a 220gr. Hard Cast plain based LFN) is the absolute heaviest bullet that can be fired through 10mm pistols. With it’s flat nose it will penetrate staright and very deeply into muscle and bone. Straight line penetration into living tissue will exceed three feet.
Please note below, my personal velocities taken from real pistols.
1. 1140 fps - Glock model 20 4.6 inch barrel
2. 1175 fps - Colt Delta Elite 5 inch barrel
3. 1201 fps - Para Ordinance 1911 with Nowlin 5 inch barrel

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:31 pm

Frank I'll have to run a .410 thru the 401 size die, but I'm thinking it'll wipe out most of the lube groove and leave a big lip on the base, which won't do much for accuracy....

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:32 pm

sore shoulder wrote:
O.S.O.K. wrote:
1200 fps from a 6" barrel? Not in a Glock or any other repeating handgun... you must have a TC
Yes from G20. And actually it will be the 6.6 Lone wolf barrel. If Double tap can get 230gr to do 1150 from a G20 regular barrel, and Buffalo bore can get 1201 from a 5" barrel with a 220gr, I don't see why I can't do it with a 6.6" barrel. Especially after seeing what COSteve is getting for a 6". The reason I dont like the Double Tap bullet is it's an LBT design, which is known for being inaccurate at longer distances. John Linebaugh told me personally one day he could watch them spiral by the sun glinting off the gas check past 50 yards. I'd rather use a truncated cone than an LBT profile if I can't get a Kieth, which I am fully confident I can.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... tail&p=219
Item 21C

Heavy 10mm Ammo - 220 gr. Hard Cast - FN (1200 fps/ME 703 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box
Item 21C (a 220gr. Hard Cast plain based LFN) is the absolute heaviest bullet that can be fired through 10mm pistols. With it’s flat nose it will penetrate staright and very deeply into muscle and bone. Straight line penetration into living tissue will exceed three feet.
Please note below, my personal velocities taken from real pistols.
1. 1140 fps - Glock model 20 4.6 inch barrel
2. 1175 fps - Colt Delta Elite 5 inch barrel
3. 1201 fps - Para Ordinance 1911 with Nowlin 5 inch barrel

You'll be pushing it hard but OK... better from a fully supported barrel like LW. But I don't get the LBT reference - the DT boolit is a basic round nose, flat point design. Never had any stabaliztion issues with them...

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:35 pm

Ok Don, I bet you are right and I suspected as much. Wanna get coffee somewhere along I25 next time I go through on the way to Cody?

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:48 pm

Sure thing, let me know when.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:00 pm

By the way I did run a 218 gr 410swc into my .401 size die....

It's a fugly bullet when it comes back out.

Looks like it'll be a custom cast thing from a custom mould...

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:30 pm

Just heard from Tim Sundles. He says I will probably get 1200 from his 220gr FN in a 6.6" barrel. I think I'm just going to order some of his rounds. I'm carrying this for bear in WY and will have more confidence in a factory round anyway.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:09 pm

Just don't shoot a bear with it, unless it makes 500 ft lbs energy at 100 yds(minimum requirement for big/trophy game handgun hunting). Just one less thing thing can hit you with for killin one of those poor innocent creatures...

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:19 pm

Don, the load he's talking about generates 700+ ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. Not knowing the BC of the boolit, I can't comment on 100 yard energy level but I bet its over 500. But I believe he's talking defensive use only? Sore shoulder can asnwer that. I'm probably just misreading your reply/sarcasm though.

I think a hot loaded 10mm with hardcast boolits will penetrate very well and serve great as bear protection.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:30 pm

I met a guy couple weeks ago who was attacked by a Grizzly last year and survived. He shot it 3 times with a 41 mag, all went completely through. Now a 10mm isnt a .41, but what I'm talking about doing is pretty close. COSteve is getting over 800 ft lbs out of his 10mm, I think I can do the same.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:37 pm

Considering the Glock gives you 15+1 rounds, it's plenty close enough IMHO.

Udy · Post by **Udy** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:48 pm

SS-
I got no advice for the 10mm. Just wanted to say you should buy one box of them and make sure they function before you invest in a pile of them FP can be finiky in autoloaders.

I bought a couple boxes of buffalo bore's 255gr. RNFP hard cast for my kimber .45 and it wont pick it up right, gets hung up in the slide and jams. Kinda dissapointed me, as it eats just about anything else I've ever put in it.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:10 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:Don, the load he's talking about generates 700+ ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. Not knowing the BC of the boolit, I can't comment on 100 yard energy level but I bet its over 500. But I believe he's talking defensive use only? Sore shoulder can asnwer that. I'm probably just misreading your reply/sarcasm though.

I think a hot loaded 10mm with hardcast boolits will penetrate very well and serve great as bear protection.

Whether or not the 10mm loaded hot will suffice for bear isn't the problem.
The problem is you shoot a bear , with a firearm that does not meet the minimum standards as set forth by the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission, killing a big/trophy game animal out of season, with an illegal firearms will be tacked onto the charges filed.... And even tho you may be able to proove self defense, the caliber thing may just stick....
Not long ago they charged and fined a woman for an illegal caliber, for putting a 158 gr +P from a 38 special thru a blackbears brain pan when it stuck it's nose thru the camper door.
If it's a grizz , then there's no end to the federal charges that will be thrown at you by the federal procecuting attorney....
Lots to think about other than "will it?"

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:12 am

Don McDowell wrote:
O.S.O.K. wrote:Don, the load he's talking about generates 700+ ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. Not knowing the BC of the boolit, I can't comment on 100 yard energy level but I bet its over 500. But I believe he's talking defensive use only? Sore shoulder can asnwer that. I'm probably just misreading your reply/sarcasm though.

I think a hot loaded 10mm with hardcast boolits will penetrate very well and serve great as bear protection.
Whether or not the 10mm loaded hot will suffice for bear isn't the problem.
The problem is you shoot a bear , with a firearm that does not meet the minimum standards as set forth by the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission, killing a big/trophy game animal out of season, with an illegal firearms will be tacked onto the charges filed.... And even tho you may be able to proove self defense, the caliber thing may just stick....
Not long ago they charged and fined a woman for an illegal caliber, for putting a 158 gr +P from a 38 special thru a blackbears brain pan when it stuck it's nose thru the camper door.
If it's a grizz , then there's no end to the federal charges that will be thrown at you by the federal procecuting attorney....
Lots to think about other than "will it?"

Now that's why we love the guvmint so much...

Frank, this approach also has me interested for my 14" Contender barrel. I currently have a bunch of 180 gr. pseudo-.38WCF loads for it but this approach is interesting.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:19 am

Hobie, the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission works in very mysterious ways. Used to be you could carry a 22 pistol while elk hunting to pot grouse or finish an elk on the ground off. Now if you use that 22 to finish any big game animal you can get a ticket for using an illegal cartridge to take big game...

Don't even get into the free handed search and seizure the game wardens are allowed...

Back to the heavy bulleted 10mil thing, IF you can get a 220 gr bullet wound up to 1200 fps it will just make the 500 ft.lbs at 100 yds requirement 210 has to be closer to 1225.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:39 pm

I thought that Wyoming was a free state? Sounds like the WFGC needs to be reminded about the Constitution....

And I don't get why a Game Warden can just totally ignore the Constitution - they are allowed to do just that all over the country. They can come onto your property any time they want, do illegal searches, etc. = why????

This needs to be challenged in court and run up to the SCOTUS.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:00 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:I thought that Wyoming was a free state? Sounds like the WFGC needs to be reminded about the Constitution....

And I don't get why a Game Warden can just totally ignore the Constitution - they are allowed to do just that all over the country. They can come onto your property any time they want, do illegal searches, etc. = why????

This needs to be challenged in court and run up to the SCOTUS.

It has been,,,, plaintiff lost...

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:03 pm

Don McDowell wrote:
Back to the heavy bulleted 10mil thing, IF you can get a 220 gr bullet wound up to 1200 fps it will just make the 500 ft.lbs at 100 yds requirement 210 has to be closer to 1225.

Hey Don, I can't decipher the bold part, decoder ring busted (I'm too dumb?)

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:06 pm

Don McDowell wrote:
O.S.O.K. wrote:I thought that Wyoming was a free state? Sounds like the WFGC needs to be reminded about the Constitution....

And I don't get why a Game Warden can just totally ignore the Constitution - they are allowed to do just that all over the country. They can come onto your property any time they want, do illegal searches, etc. = why????

This needs to be challenged in court and run up to the SCOTUS.
It has been,,,, plaintiff lost...

FCOL. You're kidding. How could they have possibly justified that finding?

Oops, sorry - this is a thread jack. Don, maybe another post about this? Wow.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:19 pm

SS the 210 gr bullet has to be leaving the muzzle at 1225 fps to make the 500 ft.lbs at 100 yds.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:24 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:
Don McDowell wrote:
O.S.O.K. wrote:I thought that Wyoming was a free state? Sounds like the WFGC needs to be reminded about the Constitution....

And I don't get why a Game Warden can just totally ignore the Constitution - they are allowed to do just that all over the country. They can come onto your property any time they want, do illegal searches, etc. = why????

This needs to be challenged in court and run up to the SCOTUS.
It has been,,,, plaintiff lost...
FCOL. You're kidding. How could they have possibly justified that finding?

Oops, sorry - this is a thread jack. Don, maybe another post about this? Wow.

Quite simple the taking of wildlife under any circumstances falls under the guidlines set forth by the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission, as set for by Chapter 23 of the state statutes. The WY G&F commission has establish a minimum requirement of no less than 35 caliber with a bullet attaining a minimum of 500 ft.lbs of energy at 100 yds to "take" big/trophy game with a handgun. Also "taking" of wildlife come under the jurisdiction of the G&F, and when you "take" wildlife you agree to play by their rules.
It's all easy to see and read on the Wy G&F website....
Nice thing is between some of th G&F regs, and the bad winters, we can sure keep alot of the riffraff out.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:28 pm

Don McDowell wrote: the bad winters...sure keep alot of the riffraff out.

Amen brother.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:29 pm

Don McDowell wrote:SS the 210 gr bullet has to be leaving the muzzle at 1225 fps to make the 500 ft.lbs at 100 yds.

Ok now I get it :facepalm:

I don't think that will be a problem. I'm hoping to chrono some rounds from a 6.6" barrel within the month.

BTW, did you hear about the guy I mentioned in Clark that was mauled and killed the bear with 210gr HP from his .41? It was last year. Bear broke his ribs, tore his lower jaw off and messed him up bad before he shot it. One tough cookie, met him a couple weeks ago and he's walking and talking. Said he was blindsided in 6ft tall sagebrush, apparently got real close to the den. I know I won't be venturing into tall sagebrush if I can help it.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:49 pm

Yeh that guy was super lucky to get out of that one alive.
A friend of mine has a daughter and soninlaw that have a place on the river between Cody and Powell, they have teenage and younger kids. They found a sow grizzly snooping around the barns one day this past fall. Got their attention really quick...

I just ain't interested in hangin around country where the constitution now reads "we the furry little forest creatures" any more, gettin to old for that sorta stuff.
Another fella got a ticket up above the Double Cabin because his "cache" was 2 inches to close to the tree and 6 inches to low

They popped his pardner for having out of date bear spray

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:00 pm

Don McDowell wrote:Yeh that guy was super lucky to get out of that one alive.
A friend of mine has a daughter and soninlaw that have a place on the river between Cody and Powell, they have teenage and younger kids. They found a sow grizzly snooping around the barns one day this past fall. Got their attention really quick...
I just ain't interested in hangin around country where the constitution now reads "we the furry little forest creatures" any more, gettin to old for that sorta stuff.
Another fella got a ticket up above the Double Cabin because his "cache" was 2 inches to close to the tree and 6 inches to low They popped his pardner for having out of date bear spray

Apparently they are so overpopulated up in the Beartooths they are being pushed down into the flatlands. Then theres the wolves.

Malemutes neighbor had a black one with a collar in his front yard recently, and word on the street is a couple dozen have been "removed" from the local area there by the authorities.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:17 pm

The legislature is supposed to take up the bill that changes stuff so that the wolves will come off the list this session, so hopefully in a few months things will begin to change with the wolf deal.
Have you seen the bear fence around the Wapiti school?

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:49 pm

Well, if things go really south in the near future (economic depression) as I expect they will at some point, then most of this will become a moot point. The "authorities" simply won't have the resources to bother people any more. A shot bear will simply be considered fresh meat and any JBT that decides to make an issue with that will find himself alone and unsupported - and that is why there won't be any more bothering... they really aren't heros.

I can't believe that people are being harrased over measurements and spray "use by" dates... unbelievable. Wyoming!

IMHO

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:23 pm

OSOK take it up with the feds. The grizzly in the lower 48 is an endangered species.
But it you care to come up here and show us how to put them feds in their place....

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:50 pm

Don McDowell wrote:The legislature is supposed to take up the bill that changes stuff so that the wolves will come off the list this session, so hopefully in a few months things will begin to change with the wolf deal.
Have you seen the bear fence around the Wapiti school?

Haha no, I'll have to see about that. I understand you guys did things a little bit different than ID and MT as far as delisting the wolves that gives you more latitude. They are reporting them here more and more and the hunting regs now have information on identifying them, I think a dead female with a collar was found down around Gunnison last year. I also believe there are Grizzlies back in CO, they just aren't admitting it yet. Just like the Canadian Lynx I saw up here 6 years before they acknowledged introducing them, and when I called DOW they denied we had them and said it was a bobcat.

I said a bobcat the size of a German Shepherd? Oh you must have imagined that. Then I went on to describe the fur ruff etc and the differences between the two animals in detail and they got real quiet and then weaseled off the phone.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:10 pm

Well it might be best they didn't believe your lynx sighting. Guarantee you don't want anything to do with an "endangered " species..
When you go up the North Fork towards Jellystone, they got signs all along the road telling about the 5000$ fines you can get for just approaching a griz

When we were in Cody last Sept, the only place we saw any deer was right in town, and the only elk we saw out of Yellowstone, was clear down in the hay meadows just out of Buffalo Bill state park.
Friend of ours was neighbors with the guy that got ate up at Pahaska a couple of years ago...
The wolf deal is supposed to maintain trophy status in the northwest corner, and leave them as predators, just as state law has dictated for the last 100 some odd years. Will have to see what happens with the lawsuit things. If the legislature words the statutues to Judge Johnsons ruling the long ordeal should be over.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:17 pm

Don McDowell wrote:Well it might be best they didn't believe your lynx sighting. Guarantee you don't want anything to do with an "endangered " species..
When you go up the North Fork towards Jellystone, they got signs all along the road telling about the 5000$ fines you can get for just approaching a griz
When we were in Cody last Sept, the only place we saw any deer was right in town, and the only elk we saw out of Yellowstone, was clear down in the hay meadows just out of Buffalo Bill state park.
Friend of ours was neighbors with the guy that got ate up at Pahaska a couple of years ago...
The wolf deal is supposed to maintain trophy status in the northwest corner, and leave them as predators, just as state law has dictated for the last 100 some odd years. Will have to see what happens with the lawsuit things. If the legislature words the statutues to Judge Johnsons ruling the long ordeal should be over.

Went over Dead Indian with Malemute earlier this month and there were some nice herds of Elk and Deer browsing right up to the road, got a few good pics.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:09 pm

Don McDowell wrote:OSOK take it up with the feds. The grizzly in the lower 48 is an endangered species.
But it you care to come up here and show us how to put them feds in their place....

Read my post again.

There's something called "context"

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:17 pm

That's one of the grand views in the world looking from Dead Indian into the Sunlight and over on to the Beartooth.