Frustrating 30/30 weekend.

[Nath]

Yes I'm really frustrated!
Yesterday I thought I would check my latest batch of ammo. I shot at 100 and 200 and they would string up and down. I tried it with 150 & 170 Speers on different charge weights and they were all no good. So I returned home loaded some more even going to the extreme with BLC 2 to the point that when I tried again the fire ball from the 16" barrel was unbearable with ears on! Oddly though there was no bad sighn of pressure but who knows come a hot summer! This hot load was the only grouping load @ 4". At 200yds it dropped 7-8" thus giving me reason to believe a vel of 2200-2300fps which is impressive from a 16" tube but I feel it is too much.
When I returned home I was really fed up and checked the gun all over. The front barrel band is gripping the mag tube but floating on the barrel just as it was when it was shooting better. The rear band was still tight on the wood and barrel so I lightly sanded the wood lacquer down untill it just slipped into position just nice and worked the rear band so it just slipped over the barrel and wood, thus I hope that this will improve things in this area. Next I checked all scope mounts and they were fine.
This morning I loaded another batch of test loads and found my brass was sticking in the sizing die, something that has happend regular. I realised that some of the brass was coming out with a rounded shoulder. It appears the decapping rod was grabbing the neck and stretching the neck thus pulling on the shoulder! I raised the decapper and immediatly noticed how much easier the brass was to resize
I then looked at the last batch in question and noticed that sure enough some had rounded shoulders and some had not
I have done some more test loads with an adjusted die and they all look how they should now and weather permitting will test them after work. I just hope it was that/me and everything will work out fine again.
If it does go fine I will pull the affected batch and salvage the bullets /powder then put a pinch of W231 under some lead'ns to fire form the cases and start over
Has anybody here ever experienced this or am I special?
Nath.

[Old Savage]

Well Nath, of course you are special but I will have to study this question more carefully.

[Modoc ED]

We all know you're special Nath but then again we all know you're not so cute. How do we know that you're not cute you ask? Remember the picture you posted of yourself in your make shift shelter with the stove in it and you smoking you're pipe? That's how we know.

As for your groups -- can you get IMR-3031 powder. If so, load 30 grains of it behind a 170 grain bullet. I'm sure you'll be pleased with it.

Keep plugging (pun intended) away and you'll be successful before too long.

[Nath]

I can get the IMR3031 it's just my wallet see, it get's the shakes
I have had it shooting very good in the recent past, I think I have put my big foot in it at the sizing die end

[JReed]

Hopefully the sizing issues are the fly in the ointment and now that you have that figured out things will improve.

[Scott64A]

+1 for IMR3031...

It's all I use for 170gr in my .30-30.

Now, having your sizing die round off the shoulders is NOT a good thing, so let's hope you've got it there.

Let's have a range report, hmm?
You know we love those.

[Ysabel Kid]

Hopefully the sizing issues are the fly in the ointment and now that you have that figured out things will improve.

+1

Even with frustrating results, I bet your weekend was better than mine. I spent pretty much all day today doing my taxes. And you probably thought that government torture of their citizens is banned in the USA. Wrong!!!

Hope you get it straightened out Nath!

[Yance]

Nath;

Think about switching to a much smaller expander ball, just something to hole the decapping pin to the rod and using a Lyman "M" die to expand the case necks. Won't be any round shoulders or neck stretching going on that way.

[Lefty Dude]

I de-cap with a universal de-capper and neck size only. Use a Lyman "M" die for expansion & case mouth belling. As I neck size I rotate the case 180 degrees and neck size again. I do this with all long neck bottle neck cases.

[bobbyjack]

Somebody here posted about the mag cap screw being too long and producing a strange barrell harmonics type thing!

I think NOAH would be the poster!

You might want to catch that one!

bob

[20cows]

Do you lube the case mouth when reloading? I touch the case mouth to a foam pad soaked with RCBS case lube.

[w30wcf]

Nath,
Sorry to hear about your frustrating day. Regarding your cases with the rounded shoulders, if they chamber ok, I would just shoot them with your standard load.

3031 is a good .30-30 powder as the pards have suggested, but BLC-2 is also very good as well. I have shot away many pounds of it over the years in my .30-30's...always with good results. Sounds like you have an older lot of BLC-2 (?) since recent production does not flame in a 20" barrel like other lots I have had.

What powder charges are you using with 150 and 170 gr. bullets?

Speaking of the Speer brand bullets, I have found that they shoot well in most of my .30-30's but definitely not very well in one of them. That rifle much prefers Hornady's or Remington bullets.

You mentioned your brass sometimes sticking in the sizing die....apparently when being pulled over the expander button(?).
+1 on 20 Cows suggestion.

Good luck with your future testing.

w30wcf

[Nath]

UPDATE; Today just before dark I tried again. First to go was the 170's with 37grns of BL-C2, the result was a 2" group. At last I thought but when trying the 150 Speers and Hornadys the vert stringing returned dang it. That was 38grn of the same powder. What I remember of BL-C2 is that it likes being compressed well for it to kick in well but I am not prepared to add any more as I think I would have to go to 40grn and the fear is that when it did kick in it would be way to much. Interestingly I had 4 rounds left of the 170's that grouped and so shot them at 200yds as the darkness fell. The first shot gave very little flash and went 9" low but then the next three gave the more familiar bright flash resulting in a 3" group 9" up. This is leading me to believe that the powder has inconsistant ignition and that I may need to obtain that can of 3031 Don't misunderstand, I love BL-C2 and have had much joy with it in the past in different cals.
Anyway I have dug out the H322 which is close to 3031 and loaded some more tests. I sure hope the vert stringing goes away. If it does it may vindicate my theory.
Which ever way it goes my wallet is serious worried
Nath

[Lefty Dude]

Do you Crimp the bullet in the neck ?

If not you may try a Lee Factory Crimp die. This would let your powder gather some steam prior to the bullet exit.

I crimp all my jacketed & lead rifle reloads.

The factory rounds are crimped.

[Griff]

The vertical stringin' may not be related to your powder. I've found it most common when there's some slight, undue pressure from the magazine plug screw into the bottom of the barrel. Changes in ambient temps and such can affect small changes in pressure; it ain't there on a cold day, but the next warm one it shows up. Exceedingly frustrating.

[oldgerboy]

You could get a set of inside the neck brushes and use mica (?) instead of a lube.

Check in a catalog like Midway or whatever is available. The brushes and the tray they are mounted in are great to use and help sizing greatly.

[1886]

I did not see what rifle you are shooting but I will tell you of my experience with a B.B. 94 .375 Win. I thought I was a competent levergunner being able to shoot my various Marlins very well. I had no reason to believe that the 94 would give me any trouble. To say I was wrong is an understatement. I could only shoot patterns at 25yrds. No semblence of any degree of accuracy. I tried many different loads and combos to no avail. I concluded the gun was at fault, in particular the mag. tube cap screw. I tore the rifle down to just the stock, receiver, and barrel and headed back to the range. Things improved but just a bit, nothing dramatic. A forum member suggested my bench technique might be at fault. What blasphemy. This guy did not know me. He did not know my level of skill with a rifle. He did not know my most high opinion of my self. Me? No way! He was right. The bench technique that I employed with my Marlins, and 86s, and 71 was not appropriate with the B.B. The adjustment I made with the 94 was simple. Prior I never held the forearm of the levergun. I used my bolt gun technique. Minimal contact with the rifle, only at the wrist of the stock and let the rifle recoil freely. The forum member to who I am grateful suggested that I hold the rifle at the barrel band in the palm of my hand and not let the gun recoil freely. This technique adjustment worked wonders on the groups with the B.B. It is not the best shooting lever I own but it is not bad. See if a bench technique adjustment might be in order. Be consitent from shot to shot and see what evolves. Leverguns can be tough to shoot. Hanging mag. tubes, two piece stock design, mag. tubes full or partially full to empty as we shoot, barrel time, screw tension, etc. can wreak havoc on groups. Please let us know. 1886.

[Lefty Dude]

Usually lever guns have never been known for accuracy.

The two that I have owned that were:

Browning BLR

Winchester 1895

Note: No Mag tubes or barrel bands.

[Old Savage]

Well now there lefty - I can here the hornets starting to buzz. Many accurate tube mags here.

[Nath]

UPDATE UPDATE. Been busy so sorry.
Rite, lee f crimp used on all loads. Neck lube allways removed. The tube end screw is off the barrel and the gun is a Win 94 trapper.
I do shoot it holding the forend and endeavor to hold the same for every shot and aim for a suprise when it goes off (thanks though 1886).
Yesterday I tried the H322 and guess what-the vert stringing was gone!
Shooting 4 shot groups the 170 speers went 4" on 30grn- not so special. Will try some more powder next.
The 150 Hornadys went all over the place on 31grn!
The 150 Speers for 3 shots went nto 1 1/2" with a 4th opening it up to 3" on 31grn, looks promising.
I am distinctly aware of very little neck tension when seating a bullet. So tonight I have removed 1 thou off the expander ball and allthough not much I could detect a differance how they seated so this may show something, fingers crossed.
I believe the carbine is capable, it has done so in the past. It is all very puzzling as to why it has suddenly gone off. It has gone from 3" groups shot offhand on BL-C2 to crazy verticle stringing over 8" in length.
The H322 showed the same drop at 200yds as the BL-C2 loads- The Speer charts point to 2100/150grn and 2000/170grn. I think it is good for 16" barrel. Also they are much more pleasant to shoot without the muzz blast and flash.
I'll let you know what happens with the snugger necks, wish me luck.
Nath.

[Malamute]

Nath, did you change primers somewhere in this event? A difference in powder performance like this, from previously good performance to apparently erratic igntion could be primer related, or perhaps even temperature related.

[Nath]

Malamute, no i have not changed primer and the Fed 210's are from the same batch. I do feel temp has something to do with it as it was summer when I developed with BL-C2.
Got bad weather tomorrow, I was hoping to try after work, it'll keep.
Nath.