Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
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- Levergunner 2.0
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Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
read below !
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 12:43 AM
To: speerexpert
Subject: Speer Bullets - Ask Speer Form
S Perkins
Georgia 30064 USA
I would like to know the specific lengths of each of your .40 caliber pistol bullets for calculation of case capacity in .40SW pistol ammo. In particular I am focused on your 155gr bullet.
Thanks
Scott
response below
////////////////////////////////////////////
RE: Speer Bullets - Ask Speer Form
Monday, March 12, 2012 7:02 PM
From: "speerexpert" <speerexpert@ATK.com>
To: Scott
Scott: Sorry but the length dimensions on the bullet are a reference dimension on the drawing and it is proprietary information. I look forward to your response.
Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman, CCI/Speer Sr. Technical Coordinator
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
(866) 286-7436
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 12:43 AM
To: speerexpert
Subject: Speer Bullets - Ask Speer Form
S Perkins
Georgia 30064 USA
I would like to know the specific lengths of each of your .40 caliber pistol bullets for calculation of case capacity in .40SW pistol ammo. In particular I am focused on your 155gr bullet.
Thanks
Scott
response below
////////////////////////////////////////////
RE: Speer Bullets - Ask Speer Form
Monday, March 12, 2012 7:02 PM
From: "speerexpert" <speerexpert@ATK.com>
To: Scott
Scott: Sorry but the length dimensions on the bullet are a reference dimension on the drawing and it is proprietary information. I look forward to your response.
Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman, CCI/Speer Sr. Technical Coordinator
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
(866) 286-7436
- gamekeeper
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
In other words I don't know and I'm too lazy to find out...
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
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- Levergunner 2.0
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
Speer only has four bullets in .40 caliber and I was only
really interested in one the 155gr.
Like we dont have a caliper and can measure for ourselves.
You know what else is in the reference drawing ?
Weight and caliber but they cant tell you that because
it is on the drawings and proprietary !
really interested in one the 155gr.
Like we dont have a caliper and can measure for ourselves.
You know what else is in the reference drawing ?
Weight and caliber but they cant tell you that because
it is on the drawings and proprietary !
Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
Ask for a sample pack I beleive its 5 bullets you can measure and weight yourself, I have done it with speer and sierra. danny
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
Oh, good idea. Do you have to be a FFL or business owner to get a sample?BigSky56 wrote:Ask for a sample pack I beleive its 5 bullets you can measure and weight yourself, I have done it with speer and sierra. danny
I figure they are trying to get you to buy their book.... See the other speer post for gripes on that.
Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
No to a lic or business just call them and ask I got 5 or 10 rifle bullets hot core,they even carried the postage. danny
Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
Cast you own and you will know the length. I started casting .40 S&W and will never go back
to manufactured bullets. I got sick and tired of paying big bucks for junk bullets. The ones I cast fly better anyway.
to manufactured bullets. I got sick and tired of paying big bucks for junk bullets. The ones I cast fly better anyway.
Andrew: He is a real gun freak with way too many guns to shoot or clean.
Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
Hornady used to send out samples, as well. I haven't asked for any in several years but I still have three or four boxes marked "sample" with a date in magic marker.
I like Speer bullets and wouldn't stop using them because one guy was too lazy to help you.
I like Speer bullets and wouldn't stop using them because one guy was too lazy to help you.
- J Miller
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
If I remember correctly Speer has all that data in the backs of the book in the technical sections. At least they used to.
Joe
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
Speer is another of those companies that has been gobbled up and is part of a "twenty name" group. You might have been talking to an independent contractor that takes these calls for them and uses "book" answers. I know a gal who is a single mom of a handicapped kid, works from home answering such questions for two major sporting goods outfits. When she talks to someone, they are given the impression they are talking to someone at the company, but aside from reading from scripts, she's never even SEEN these companies.
Certified gun nut
Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
aiderondakjack,
way too much of that stuff going on these days.
way too much of that stuff going on these days.
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
This is pure nonsense. Listed below is your data.
1) I understand Speer's reluctance not to share load data when they have spent time, effort and money to put together a load book. Although if you buy bullets from smaller operations, e.g. bullet casters, they will almost always supply some load data and other info upon request.
2) There is no reason, other than greed or laziness, that Speer cannot release their bullet sizes. Proprietary data? Pure you-know-what. There are a plethora of bullet load software programs that have this information, or you can purchase the bullets and measure them. But why should you be forced to purchase even one bullet when the size is public information? There is nothing proprietary about the length of a bullet when it is sold to the public by the millions! I would label that as "a lie."
3) I will be sending a link for this posting to Speer's Customer Relations or President, whichever I find available. If they want to treat their customers this way, there are enough similar bullets now on the market that I can go elsewhere. There are even those that emulate the popular Gold Dot, like Hornady, with their outstanding Customer Relations folks. This is a deal breaker for me. Speer, I have purchased a good number of your bullets. Count me as an ex-customer, and depend upon me circulating this information. Totally unacceptable.
Here are the bullet lengths, according to some software that I have. I have not tested all this data, but it's close enough for you to work up some approximations:
.40 Caliber bullets, Speer bullet lengths (in.):
155gr. HP GD 4400 0.540
155gr. TMJ 4399 0.540
165gr. HP GD 4397 0.560
165gr. TMJ 4410 0.560
180gr. HP GD 4406 0.610
180gr. HPSB GD 4401 0.610
180gr. TMJ 4402 0.630
200gr. TMJ 4403 0.650
1) I understand Speer's reluctance not to share load data when they have spent time, effort and money to put together a load book. Although if you buy bullets from smaller operations, e.g. bullet casters, they will almost always supply some load data and other info upon request.
2) There is no reason, other than greed or laziness, that Speer cannot release their bullet sizes. Proprietary data? Pure you-know-what. There are a plethora of bullet load software programs that have this information, or you can purchase the bullets and measure them. But why should you be forced to purchase even one bullet when the size is public information? There is nothing proprietary about the length of a bullet when it is sold to the public by the millions! I would label that as "a lie."
3) I will be sending a link for this posting to Speer's Customer Relations or President, whichever I find available. If they want to treat their customers this way, there are enough similar bullets now on the market that I can go elsewhere. There are even those that emulate the popular Gold Dot, like Hornady, with their outstanding Customer Relations folks. This is a deal breaker for me. Speer, I have purchased a good number of your bullets. Count me as an ex-customer, and depend upon me circulating this information. Totally unacceptable.
Here are the bullet lengths, according to some software that I have. I have not tested all this data, but it's close enough for you to work up some approximations:
.40 Caliber bullets, Speer bullet lengths (in.):
155gr. HP GD 4400 0.540
155gr. TMJ 4399 0.540
165gr. HP GD 4397 0.560
165gr. TMJ 4410 0.560
180gr. HP GD 4406 0.610
180gr. HPSB GD 4401 0.610
180gr. TMJ 4402 0.630
200gr. TMJ 4403 0.650
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
UPDATE -
Called Speer, sent an e-mail. It would appear that there is some kind of Catch-22 with officially publishing bullet lengths and then suffering abuse from customers who find their ammo is .001 inch "out of spec" and demanding a total refund.
I understand, for one, that it's really tough, if not impossible, to catch every lot of bullets where the equipment has worn down enough to affect the length of a bullet so that it is not "exactly" spec length. Some folks, I guess, take advantage of this and abuse the knowledge made available to put the screws to the supplier.
On the other hand, the "proprietary" reply should have been handled differently, methinks. I hope that Speer will address this with a reply. I must say that the person that I talked to was very understanding and wanted to address any misgivings. Let's see if they post something.
Called Speer, sent an e-mail. It would appear that there is some kind of Catch-22 with officially publishing bullet lengths and then suffering abuse from customers who find their ammo is .001 inch "out of spec" and demanding a total refund.
I understand, for one, that it's really tough, if not impossible, to catch every lot of bullets where the equipment has worn down enough to affect the length of a bullet so that it is not "exactly" spec length. Some folks, I guess, take advantage of this and abuse the knowledge made available to put the screws to the supplier.
On the other hand, the "proprietary" reply should have been handled differently, methinks. I hope that Speer will address this with a reply. I must say that the person that I talked to was very understanding and wanted to address any misgivings. Let's see if they post something.
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- Levergunner 2.0
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
Still Bull dookie. Several companies provide bullet weight
and length as ranges or a number plus or minus variance.
That is all they have to do. I am sure they have manufacturing
tolerances. Just share them. what is the big deal with that ?
and length as ranges or a number plus or minus variance.
That is all they have to do. I am sure they have manufacturing
tolerances. Just share them. what is the big deal with that ?
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- Advanced Levergunner
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- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm
Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
As far as that goes, I agree.preventec47 wrote:Still Bull dookie. Several companies provide bullet weight
and length as ranges or a number plus or minus variance.
That is all they have to do. I am sure they have manufacturing
tolerances. Just share them. what is the big deal with that ?
- Griff
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
I figured he was just being coy with his response. Me, I'd call and ask for his boss' answer. Point out that all I have to do is buy a box, measure and THEN trash-talk about their narrow-mindedness all over the internet. They make some pretty good bullets that I'd HATE to depprive myself of over some twit in customer service.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
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- Levergunner 2.0
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
If I am not mistaken the person responding to the inquiry
at Speer WAS the tech service manager. Could be wrong
about that ? ?
at Speer WAS the tech service manager. Could be wrong
about that ? ?
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
Anyone can have a bad day!! Seems like I have my share. The older I get the less patience I have for BS from customers.
As for Speer. I have been using their products for over 55 years and am not going to stop unless I can no longer shoot.
As for Speer. I have been using their products for over 55 years and am not going to stop unless I can no longer shoot.
- Griff
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Re: Ill never spend another penney with Speer !
preventec47,
check your pms.
check your pms.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!