Firearms errors in books

[rodeo kid]

I have a disease, I am a readaholic. fiction mostly. I have noticed this before but I have just read two novels this weekend and both had errors in firearms. In: The Jaguar, by T. Jefferson Parker a character is armed with a Colt King Cobra revolver in .45. To the best of my knowledge they were only made in .357mag. Also in: Breaking Point by Dana Haynes a character is armed with two Browning Hi-Powers in .45. Again I only know of 9mm and .40 S&W in those. Has anyone else noticed this? Maybe we should start up a reference service for authors. Any way, these were very good novels. Also feel free to correct me if I am wrong on the calibers. God Bless.

[Rusty]

I read a lot too. I've often thought how great it would be to act as a consultant to some of these authors so they didn't have their heroes wasting time fumbling with the safety on their Colt single actions.

[Mescalero]

Yes, a good story can be ruined for me with a firearm gaff.

[ving-thorr]

Ugh, movies too, everyone is always charging their weapons, repeatedly. Everytime you take cover, or emerge from cover with a shotgun you have to rack it right? SWAT operators only charge their pistols when they're around the corner from the bad guy, right?

[Griff]

If they have a website, go and offer yer services. Mostly I've been told, "...my average reader isn't that discerning and doesn't care." It's what an EDITOR is supposed to do. You know, those folks with high payin' salaries in NYC and can spot a doble negative at 500 paces, but doesn't know OR care whether Webley is spelled like that or Webely!

[Cast Bullet Hunter]

Quite contrary to being disturbed when an author gets it wrong, I am surprised when they get it right! The problem I have about attempting to contact the author and point out the errors and offer assistance is, that by the time I discover an authors works that I feel are good enough to continue to read their books, they are DEAD!!!

[hfcable]

one of the best was in a spy novel by a british author, whom the reviews had said was a technical expert, etc
the story had a double agent who had to be assassinated by the head of the agency. he was invited on a duck hunt in scotland, where the boss sat with his browning over and under .....so far so good.....but then the spy boss suddenly pointed this browning over and under SEMI AUTOMATIC RIFLE [ for ducks no less ] at the traitorous spy and EMPTIED EVERY ROUND FROM BOTH MAGAZINES into the poor double agent .

it was hard to finish the rest of the book after that!

[1894c]

i always like seeing silencers on revolvers...yeah that'll keep 'em quiet... :)

[Carlsen Highway]

I just read a war book, about the war in the Pacific, with some Aussies and American soldiers doing stuff behind the lines in Papua New Guinea, and all of them were carrying "Mills guns" around, and when they used them, it sounded like he was describing a sten gun. Now,I have never heard of a "Mills" gun, and suspect that the author got confused with Mills bombs, which were grenades of course.
Also, he had the japanese officers all carrying Lugers. Now, maybe the Germans gave the japs some Lugers at some stage, but they made their own pistols didn't they? Nambu, I think was one of the names.

[Old Ironsights]

i always like seeing silencers on revolvers...yeah that'll keep 'em quiet...

It will if it's a Nagant...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvF4yurWSc0

[AJMD429]

I like swinging out the cylinder on my double-action revolvers then spinning the cylinder and hearing that ratchet sound...

[piller]

Slight drift here, but I remember someone using a "Bassarino" lure in the book "Valhalla Rising" when anyone who fishes would know it is a Bass Oreno. Now, will anyone admit to having read any of the Longarm series where he caries the .41 caliber Colt in double action and calls it a strong action? I know little about the Thunderer and Lightning models other than they were prone to having timing issues and were kind of weak in that they had to spend a lot of time being worked on. In one of the books his revolver is hit by a bullet and locks up. The gunsmith just takes it apart and removes the offending lead and the revolver works perfectly.

Then, there is Louis L'Amour, a great writer, but one who has his characters shooting 300 yards or more and hitting targets less than an inch in diameter with Henry or 1973 Winchesters. Even today, 1/4 minute of angle accuracy is not real common by a firearm, and even less so by most shooters.

[walks with gun]

I read one this winter the hero was using a remington double barrel pump and I think his buddy had a 480 clip fed Ruger blackhawk.

[damienph]

I am a reader as well, typically 3 or 4 books going at any given time (plus magazines and newspapers). I love mysteries and being married to a former Librarian, she is always finding books for me. I've read all of the Jack Reacher mysteries (thank you, Jane), he is a former MP officer (highly decorated, of course) and the stories always involve the military in some way. I really do enjoy them, although his MP experience was a heck of lot different than mine! Anyway, one thing that really bugs me about them is the firearm goofs; the last one I read he figured out that the killer was using a military issue M16 because of the shell casing that was found near one of the crime scenes. He picked up the spent case and determined by the weight of it in his hand that it was military issue... HUH!?, LOOK AT THE HEADSTAMP, JACK!!

Plus, the author is definitely anti-gun, but I try to ignore that and enjoy the stories for what they are.

[hfcable]

I read one this winter the hero was using a remington double barrel pump and I think his buddy had a 480 clip fed Ruger blackhawk.

not a remington but the ostrender, was a double barrel pump made in san francisco
micks guns in england had one for sale in the past:

http://www.micksguns.com/images/dsc00183.jpg

here is the link to the page: sroll down a ways to the Ostrender:

http://www.micksguns.com/special%20shotguns.htm

wouldnt that be of surpassing kewlness!

doubt that the author had this in mind, however.

[Griff]

I read one this winter the hero was using a remington double barrel pump and I think his buddy had a 480 clip fed Ruger blackhawk.

not a remington but the ostrender, was a double barrel pump made in san francisco
micks guns in england had one for sale in the past:
http://www.micksguns.com/images/dsc00183.jpg
here is the link to the page: sroll down a ways to the Ostrender:
http://www.micksguns.com/special%20shotguns.htm
wouldnt that be of surpassing kewlness!
doubt that the author had this in mind, however.

WOW! Some neat stuff there, what?

[hfcable]

indeed Griff, indeed. wouldn't it be fun to visit his place!

[Blaine]

On "24", Jack would hand someone his Glock and tell them the safety was off, just point and shoot.

[Old Ironsights]

On "24", Jack would hand someone his Glock and tell them the safety was off, just point and shoot.

Actually, that is easier to do than to try to explain to a n00b that a Glock doesn't have a "safety" in the traditional sense.

Think about it. Hand a n00b almost any gun and usually the first thing they will ask about is the "safety". Heck, the Goob mandates "safeties" on just about everything, including toothpicks, so why not Guns?

[Blaine]

On "24", Jack would hand someone his Glock and tell them the safety was off, just point and shoot.

Actually, that is easier to do than to try to explain to a n00b that a Glock doesn't have a "safety" in the traditional sense.

Think about it. Hand a n00b almost any gun and usually the first thing they will ask about is the "safety". Heck, the Goob mandates "safeties" on just about everything, including toothpicks, so why not Guns?

Someone would try to find the safety and engage it

[Pete44ru]

I can say, it's been a real pleasure to read Stephen Hunter's books - I think I've only caught 1 or 2 minor firearms-related mistakes, if that - in over a dozen of his mostly civilian sniper oriented action novels.

[ Point of Impact, Dirty White Boys, Black Light, Time to Hunt, Hot Springs, Pale Horse Coming, Havana, The 47th Samurai, Night of Thunder, I Sniper, Soft Target, Master Sniper, Second Saladin, The Day Before Midnight, Tapestry of Spies ]

Frederick Forsyth & Robert B. Parker are also a pretty decent reads.

.

[Washita]

It's been years since I read one of his novels, but Stephen King is the worst offender I know of. In one book, I remember someone used a rifle in .38 Magnum. In another, a shotgun went back & forth between being a pump action and a double barrel. I just guessed that King had seen a picture of a pump gun & assumed the magazine tube was a second barrel. He was consistent, though. Whenever he described a gun he got it wrong.

[L_Kilkenny]

I am a reader as well, typically 3 or 4 books going at any given time (plus magazines and newspapers). I love mysteries and being married to a former Librarian, she is always finding books for me. I've read all of the Jack Reacher mysteries (thank you, Jane), he is a former MP officer (highly decorated, of course) and the stories always involve the military in some way. I really do enjoy them, although his MP experience was a heck of lot different than mine! Anyway, one thing that really bugs me about them is the firearm goofs; the last one I read he figured out that the killer was using a military issue M16 because of the shell casing that was found near one of the crime scenes. He picked up the spent case and determined by the weight of it in his hand that it was military issue... HUH!?, LOOK AT THE HEADSTAMP, JACK!!

Plus, the author is definitely anti-gun, but I try to ignore that and enjoy the stories for what they are.

I too have read 7 or 8 of the Reacher novels but the constant firearm mistakes are unbearable. Whether it be movies, TV or books I don't mind the occasional firearm blunder but wholesale un-educated drivel is another matter. As an example in one of the books he is in a warehouse standing in the door of an elevated office. His adversary is also elevated on a pile of counterfeit money (one heck of a big pile apparently) holding a shotgun and an innocent well below both on the ground between them. The thought goes thru Reachers mind that he can't let the guy shoot because if he does the massive spread of the shotgun will definitely kill the innocent. Goes on to write in 100% bogus terms about how wide the spread is on a shotgun. Also the author seems to think the .38sp is completely inadequate and only good for head shots but the 9mm is great. Common things like that and other issues I have with the writer (anti-gun, bunny huggin, tree huggin liberal) and the character have made me move on.

Like Pete I'm now reading Steven Hunters books. Not 100% right or perfect but all around about a thousand times better than the Reacher books.

LK

[Rusty]

I remember reading "Master Sniper" by Stephen Hunter over 25 years ago. It seems to me the sniper had the accuracy of his rifle go south due to barrel leading. It gave me something to think about at the time.

[Griff]

I remember reading "Master Sniper" by Stephen Hunter over 25 years ago. It seems to me the sniper had the accuracy of his rifle go south due to barrel leading. It gave me something to think about at the time.

T'wouldn't surprise me... I've heard of copper fouling being referred to as "leading" by otherwise knowledgeable shooters. Surprises me tho', military types being so fastidious about cleanliness & all. But... in the field that's not always possible.

[JohndeFresno]

...Colt King Cobra revolver in .45. To the best of my knowledge they were only made in .357mag. ...Browning Hi-Powers in .45. Again I only know of 9mm and .40 S&W in those...

Yup - Colt made the Anaconda in .45 Colt; Hi-Power only produced in 9mm and .40 SW.

Many years ago I read a series of adventure books where the "good guy" fought the Mafia in an ongoing war - dozens of books! - in retaliation for members of that group killing his family. Each book featured a different firearm or two for his particular set of circumstances. As I recall, the description and function of each firearm was accurate, although I read these as a youngster and my firearm experience back then was a bit more limited.

One adventure would feature the .44 Automag, for instance; another would feature a .380 full auto pistol (as used at one time or another by various European police agencies). Another would see him using a rocket launcher to take out a stronghold during his assault.

This was the Mack Bolan "Executioner" series by Don Pendleton, an amazingly prolific writer. According to his posthumous site, "He wrote mystery, action/adventure, science-fiction, crime fiction, suspense, short stories, nonfiction, and was a Comic scriptwriter, poet, screenwriter, essayist, and metaphysical scholar. " I see that the Executioner novels are still being sold, even available through Amazon as e-books for Kindle.

[ving-thorr]

my uncle is a gun guy, and a SASS guy, and a western author! so if you'd like to read some westerns that don't have firearms errors, I can recommend Bruce Thorstad. as I recall, he was annoyed by the cover art (in which he had no say-so) as the clothing or firearms weren't quite right.

[kragluver]

The Hunter books are pretty accurate. I've only found a couple of minor errors in the 9 of his that I've read. He's a good story teller.

Last year I read a book on the WW1 Meuse-Argonne battle and in one of the early chapters the author described the Model 1917 rifle as a copy of the British SMLE. Ugh! That error bothered me the rest of the way through the book. If a military historian gets the weapon history incorrect, it makes me wonder what else he got wrong. Oh well, may we're too nit-picky. I can't watch many aircraft related movies either:)

[Griff]

my uncle is a gun guy, and a SASS guy, and a western author! so if you'd like to read some westerns that don't have firearms errors, I can recommend Bruce Thorstad. as I recall, he was annoyed by the cover art (in which he had no say-so) as the clothing or firearms weren't quite right.

SMALL WORLD!!!
Tell your uncle "Hi" for me. Sure miss seein' him at cowboy shoots. He "officiated" at my wife & I's retaking our vows in 1991 at EOT. Hope he still has the $2 I paid him! Maybe it was $3... I can't remember... but I sure remember the look on his face!

[damienph]

The Hunter books are pretty accurate. I've only found a couple of minor errors in the 9 of his that I've read. He's a good story teller.

Last year I read a book on the WW1 Meuse-Argonne battle and in one of the early chapters the author described the Model 1917 rifle as a copy of the British SMLE. Ugh! That error bothered me the rest of the way through the book. If a military historian gets the weapon history incorrect, it makes me wonder what else he got wrong. Oh well, may we're too nit-picky. I can't watch many aircraft related movies either:)

Mistakes in historical books bother me the most. Historical novels, they are after all just novels not actual history. When a "historian" can't (or doesn't bother to) get the facts correct then his/her entire work is suspect.

As for novels like the Jack Reacher mysteries, the writers typically have no interest whatsoever in firearms (or cars, motorcycles, aircraft, etc) they are just throwing words out there to help tell their story. Unfortunately, most of their readers most probably couldn't care less either.

I think that most people just want to be entertained and don't care if items and scenarios that a story might be based on are realistic or even plausible.

kragluver, you are exactly right; compared to most we are just too picky.

[JohndeFresno]

...kragluver, you are exactly right; compared to most we are just too picky.

Then, maybe it's just the personality of the levergun lover? Or maybe it's because somebody with an interest or background in any particular endeavor is bothered by a factual unreality, because it breaks up their journey in the unreality of the book - their fantasy.

For instance, Michael Crichton is my absolute favorite author, given the variety of books I read. Yet, since one of my tasks in my field was that of a computer programmer, I was quite disappointed in an a factual error in one of his early books that touched upon a clue that was based upon computer code. The "clue" was an impossibility, so therefore that part of the scenario fell apart. I don't remember if it was "Terminal Man" or what - it's been a while.

In the same way, it's hard to get back into a story if a spy puts a silencer on his Smith & Wesson revolver with .357 Magnum rounds and silently dispatches somebody with others in the area unaware. It changes the reality of the whole chapter.

I have not read many Zane Grey books, but I understand that he knew the territories that he wrote about and did an extensive amount of research before writing his stories, even describing the red clay found on a cowpoke's boots. When time permits, I want to read more of his Western fare.

The research and background introduction of the subject at hand, in fact, is quite apparent if you read the Crichton books; you first get educated on a subject, and then you totally buy the fiction that follows. Forget about the movies made from the books, however; Hollywood has frequently botched up the depth of the subject, mainly because you cannot keep a visual audience captivated by the facts presented in print.

So, it seems to me that if you can't "buy" the facts presented, the magic of the fantasy is exploded. You have lost the plausibility of the story.

[damienph]

...kragluver, you are exactly right; compared to most we are just too picky.

Then, maybe it's just the personality of the levergun lover? Or maybe it's because somebody with an interest or background in any particular endeavor is bothered by a factual unreality, because it breaks up their journey in the unreality of the book - their fantasy.

... it's hard to get back into a story if a spy puts a silencer on his Smith & Wesson revolver with .357 Magnum rounds and silently dispatches somebody with others in the area unaware. It changes the reality of the whole chapter.

So, it seems to me that if you can't "buy" the facts presented, the magic of the fantasy is exploded. You have lost the plausibility of the story.

I don't disagree, I am just saying that most people don't seem too concerned about plausibility or accuracy. If they did, very few popular authors would sell more than their first novel. The magic of fantasy is that it doesn't necessarily have to be factual to be entertaining and inaccuracies in a story line that ruin it for some of us go by completely unnoticed by most.

[kragluver]

So, it seems to me that if you can't "buy" the facts presented, the magic of the fantasy is exploded. You have lost the plausibility of the story.

That is well said.

I have found that as a population, we gun owners TEND to be lovers of history and we tend to be very right-brained (so are engineers - I are one:)). A lot of my engineer buddies at work are into shooting and history as well. We tend to be pretty picky about the facts.

BTW - I just started reading Stephen Hunter's latest book Soft Target while on a trip. As usual, its a hard book to put down.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

OK, all the examples you guys have presented certainly can be annoying.
But, I got one that drove me nuts and had me throwning gun part all over the shop. This was of all things in the Numrich/Gun parts catalog.
I don't normally work on anything semi-auto but my postman had an old Winchester M74 in 22lr that had the charging handle broke off. So, I took it apart and ordered the part. Well it took awhile before I could get back to it so to assemble it I used the Numrich exploded view to get thing back in order.
Well whoever did the drawing got the bolt spring rod pictured backwards. The problem was it would assemble like that but it didn't work. I put it together several times, get flustered, put it aside, try again over several days before I realized the drawing was wrong. I think I even lost some hair over that one.

[WinM71]

Back in the 80s there was an article in the local newspaper about a hunter in northern NH who shot a bear with a "45 to 70 caliber rifle". Must have been the "adjustable" variant of the .45-70.

[JohndeFresno]

...whoever did the drawing got the bolt spring rod pictured backwards. The problem was it would assemble like that but it didn't work....

Nate,

Go back to the site and you will see that there are two drawings for that firearm. You were looking at the gun manufactured for a certain country that I hesitate to name, for fear of offending all of my Polish and Polish-American buddies...