while I gather resources for a big bore SA...

[azmark]

...I want to start practicing with my GP 100 in case I get a chance to hunt before I get hold of a big bore. I want to practice with hunting loads. What do you recommend in both factory loads and handloads? What are the limitations of the .357 as far as hunting goes?

[BigSky56]

180's from Buffalo Bore or Double Tap (better price) ammo unless you load your own. I load my own and run as fast as Buffalo Bores 1300 fps in a 3" ruger bbl and use them for my big bear defense load. danny

[Chuck 100 yd]

Nothing wrong with the .357 .
I cast a 170 gr. RNFP bullet that will do anything I ever want from the .357 along with a heavy dose of 2400.

Since the 1930`s the .357 has been killing big game and bad guys, so now we need big bores to get the job done??

[BigSky56]

just noticed about the hunting part but just as the 30-30 isnt a 500 yd elk gun the 357 has its limits also, how far out can you hit a clay trap bird every time thats your yardage limit a scope on a hadgun will add to the limit. have taken deer, cougar, bear with 357. LBT HC type bullets beat any jacket bullet out there for handgun hunting. danny

[azmark]

180's from Buffalo Bore or Double Tap (better price) ammo unless you load your own. I load my own and run as fast as Buffalo Bores 1300 fps in a 3" ruger bbl and use them for my big bear defense load. danny

Do you mind sharing your load?

[JerryB]

This is an interesting post on the .357 revolver for hunting,. Today I got my old copy of "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting " by Ed McGivern. I was reading on pages 416 and 417 about the targets on the pages being shot from 600 YARDS with open sights. The rounds ran 1515 fps, does factory ammo run in that range now.Old Ed concludes that the .357 revolver is adequate for big game if you PRACTICE.
Danny I reckon your loads would suit old Ed. Have you ever seen any of the Phil Sharpe bullets they used?

[BigSky56]

Sure Mark, 17 grs Lil'gun under CP 180 gr LBT in a starline case and 185 Beartooth LBT 16.5 grs Lil'gun in a starline case. 1300 fps in a 3" ruger first load, havent crony them in my 4" or 61/2", have shot thru on bear deer and length wise on a cat bow to astern. If I remember right the book loading is 15. grs of lil'gun under a 180 HCGC bullet thats for any 357, the ruger you can run hotter I have no pressure signs at 17 gr and the empties fall out. in my wifes 3" and buddies sp101 I load the book value for less buck and ache in the smaller guns. You might check out a 200-210 gr from Beartooth for the ultimate hunting load, the one test Ive heard about on this forum by a member is to take a bullet put it on a anvil and hit it with a single jack that is the test to see if it will shatter if it hits pinbone and I also suggest you do the test to the bullets in the temp you might be hunting at if you are chasing deer/ bear and it could get to 0*to 32* throw them in the freezer for awhile then smack em. danny

[azmark]

BigSky, that's some serious penetration. I think that would shoot through an elk...

[BigSky56]

Jerry I believe they have dropped the loading PSI of the 357 Ive not seen or read much on sharpes bullets I have in the past talk to Larry Kelly over a campfire and while hunting about big game and bears and the 357. In this country its dark timber mostly so Iam not going to see a bear till its on top me I figure on the worst case scenario, your on your back and its chewing on you, whats going to work best a short bbl DA stick it in the ear and pull the trigger till it gets off you. I carry in a chest holster or crossdraw good for either hand. There are some questionable revolvers out there and the Industry has devalued the 357 to limit liability. danny

[JerryB]

Thanks Danny, I knew they had dropped the .357 loading down some, When I first started reading about the .357 in the mid 1950's it was still a heavy load. Reckon it's like the rest of our shooting stuff, all lawyerd down.

[BigSky56]

Mark my shooting on cats and bears hasnt been for hunting but stock depredation shooting, I have rattled in a couple of white tail bucks and shot them up close with my pistol as it was quicker to target than swinging my rifle and I have finished off deer and elk with a pistol up close. I prefer fixed sights & short barreled pistols easier to carry when I switch from truck to horse and back again wrangling & packing stock. Most of the original load development was done with M27 there is a problem using light or medium framed guns for steady diets of the original loads, S&W found this out with the K frames. danny

[Paul105]

I did some load development with the 185gr Beartooth LFNGC for just the reason Danny stated above (last ditch stick in their ear large predator application while bow hunting elk in Montana). Here are some actual chrono results.

Beartooth 185gr LFNGC (yes 185gr not 158gr)
New WW Cases
Fed 200 Mag
14.7gr Lil'Gun
1.595 OAL
Chron 4 Paces fr Muzzle
Temp 75 Deg


Marlin 18" 1,713 fps
Ruger BH 6.5" 1,388 fps
Ruger SP101 3+" 1,161 fps
S&W M60 3" 1,175 fps
S&W M360 Ti 1 7/8" 1,023 fps
S&W M340 Ti 1 7/8" 1,007 fps


The Hodgdon on line data manual lists a max load 15.0gr Lil Gun, with the 180gr Nosler Partition at 34,500 CUP and 1,422 fps from a 10" bbl.

Paul

[azmark]

That sounds like a good load.

I came across a couple of threads recently that said Li'l Gun has a reputation for flame-cutting forcing cones. Has anyone else heard that?

[BigSky56]

you can get flame cutting of top straps with any max or max+ load, lil'gun will push a 180 faster than H110/W296 with less psi. just dont try to shoot 60 rounds in 1 minute with any of them or they will heat up the gun and give you fits. 2400 was one of the original powders used for load development pushing a 158 & 173 gr cast bullets, you might look into that powder. danny

[azmark]

Why is the .357 disrespected so much? A lot of gun writers just don't seem to think much of it. I was just reading something by John Taffin where he says the .357 is the minimum for handgun hunting, but he doesn't recommend using it except on smaller animals. This seems very common.

I've read things by Paco and Skeeter and they seem to think it's a very good caliber.

Is it just a case of "use the biggest rock you can throw"? Bowhunters use little bitty sticks and kill big animals.

[Old Ironsights]

I'm with everyone else here on the 180gr BB or eq. I've used it out of my 20" M92 to solid DRT effect out to 110yds.

Same load works fine in my SP101 (1200fps), so out of a GP100 you should do well.

[Streetstar]

Is it just a case of "use the biggest rock you can throw"? Bowhunters use little bitty sticks and kill big animals.

I've thought about that very same thing -- a broadhead is 125 grains (or 100 )- but has a huge cross section that creates a lot of hemmorhaging, even if it is only going 300-400 fps. (but combine the broadhead with the shaft, and it is a very large projectile indeed -- and if you get a thru and thru, will definitely cause a lot of bleeding )

Very hard to get a DRT shot with a bow-- usually recommended to wait 35-45 minutes before trailing the animal because it may take that long for them to expire.
You could use that same philosophy with a revolver, but the noise may spook them so much they'll be in the next county before they decide "enough is enough" and keel over, unless they're hit precisely

[Old Ironsights]

Just using the "Muzzy" brand fixed blade broadhead, on quick perusal they very in gr. wt from 75 to 220gr. Add the weight of the shaft and you can assume 400+gr.

But since arrows cut vs. bullets blunt-force trauma the mode of injury really isn't comparable.

Bullet wounds actually bleed LESS than arrow wounds (of equivalent cross section) because of vascular recoil (to coin a term). i.e. the blood vessels aren't cut cleanly. They are stretched & torn, then recoil into the surrounding tissue where they are pinched off (somewhat). A razor doesn't do that, so everything it cuts bleeds a LOT.

So it's really apples to oranges.

Now, compare a .32acp flat nose to a standard arrow with a flat nose/blunt and you have a closer comparison of mass vs velocity for equivalent meplats.

Oh... and if you poke-em in the eye with an arrow, it's even faster than DRT.



But it's hard to get your broadhead back.

[azmark]

I checked ballistics data on some heavier loads today. Some of these, including the Buffalo Bore loads rate at over 700 ft-lbs. I wonder if those loads are safe in my GP since they run pressures of 40,000 psi or so. Maybe I'm just being a weenie

[Old Ironsights]

I checked ballistics data on some heavier loads today. Some of these, including the Buffalo Bore loads rate at over 700 ft-lbs. I wonder if those loads are safe in my GP since they run pressures of 40,000 psi or so. Maybe I'm just being a weenie

They're to SWAMI spec. And like I said, I shoot them out of the Ruler SP101. The GP100 is a tank. It will handle them just fine.

[azmark]

I looked at the Hodgdon website yesterday. They have a pretty stout W296 load for a Hornady XTP bullet running 40.700 psi. As conservative as they are it has to be safe for just about any 357.

[tman]

Bet no too far in distance future, the .500 S&W will be considered on the light side for deer size game. Sort of what the 44mag did to the .357, the 454 to the 44mag Anything bigger than the 500 is gonna need wheels and something to drag it along

[azmark]

If anyone has recipes to load a facsimile of the original .357 load with 158 gr bullets at ~1500 fps, could you share that data? Also, would a 250 grain Keith bullet with a BN of 15 stand up to the pressure?

[BigSky56]

Go to handloads.com has the original recipe for the 158 and 173 in 2400 powder remember the testers used a 83/8" bbl I believe the 158 load ran 1620 and the 173 ran 1530/50? danny