Semiauto trail gun

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:11 am

I'm working on getting a hiking gun. I'm leaning heavily toward Glock because they have a great discount program for LE/Military. 9mm seems an appropriate caliber. A subcompact would be really convenient, but a couple of buddies seem to think a bigger frame makes more sense. I thought small would be good; maybe I'm missing something.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:56 am

While I'm a revolver guy thru and thru the Glocks and other polymer semi-autos make a lot of sense. Low maintenance, easy to clean, etc. Big vs. small? If you're carrying it in a outside the waistband holster and not worried about concealed I opt for something in a 4-5" barrel length. Personally I've never had an issue with the limited added weight and bulk, long barrels tend to be something I avoid though.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:01 am

IMO a "trail gun" has to be of a useful enough power to handle large eventualities.

In wheelguns, that means .357 or bigger.

In semi-autos 10mm. The 9 just doesn't have the poop to make me comfortable in the woods.

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:18 am

Where I will be I'm unlikely to need a larger caliber. While black bears exist here, you donT hear about sightings. People are, however, spotting more mountain lions this year. I thought about a .40, but the recoil is very 'snappy' in lighter guns. I haven't shot .40 in a Ruger SR...maybe the low bore axis reduces muzzle flip. I dunno.

Heavy guns like my 1911 will flat pull my pants down, hence the search for a lighter weapon. Buffalo Bore makes some pretty serious 9mm loads.

I'm selling the GP 100 to finance the new gun.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:37 am

You are selling a nice trail gun (GP-100 ) to buy another trail gun ? A .357 is almost perfect for this role, keep it loaded with regular projectiles, and keep a few rounds of snake shot in your cartridge loops -- maybe some .38 wadcutters in your pack for campsite plinking later

--- that said, glock makes good tools - obviously you need a decent holster because the lack of a safety can be a bit disconcerting for a field gun, --- for field use, the .357 Sig and 10mm would be better choices than 9mm. The 357 Sig can be had in a slightly smaller frame gun than the 10, but the weight difference is negligible.
I would rate myself at a solid novice level as a pistolero, (not a beginner, but i'm a long way from being compared to Jerry Miculek ) and i shoot a 10mm Glock better than i do my 1911's or revolvers. Its not a very sharp kick with most loads.

I'm definitely not saying a 9mm is a "powderpuff" pistol, -- but for a trail gun, i'd much rather hedge my bets with something more substantial

-- If a 1911 will pull your pants down, you need to cinch your belt a little tighter, or try suspenders. - they are not that heavy . Men of all shapes and sizes have been succesfully carrying them for decades

Washita · Post by **Washita** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:38 am

You probably don't have to worry much about bears, but stumbling across a 2-legged predator might be another matter. I think a good 9mm, loaded with a decent combat bullet, should be just fine. My preference would be a Springfield XD over a Glock, for the grip safety. The Springfield also has a better trigger. IMO, the Glock's "safe" trigger is a lot like no safety at all. I'm also partial to the CZ75B, which can be carried cocked, with a round up the spout & the thumb safety on. Much like a 1911 except a lot more magazine capacity.

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:43 am

I handled a bunch of XDs at the last gun show I attended but none of them fit my hand well. Too bad because they're good pistols.

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:45 am

I don't see anything wrong with a compact 9mm like the Glock, 9mm fmj can still be bought fairly cheap so there more economical to plink with. A mag full of good hollowpoints and a extra loaded with fmj's for grouse and bunnies and such.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:49 am

Trail guns? Really depends on where your trailin'. You say there are only sightings of black bear? Here in the east I prefer a .22 single action as lots of ammo can be carried and many pot shots can be taken. (for fun or pot)

Out west I prefer a single action revolver centerfire........quick to get into action and they work every time.

To me, (my old fashioned opinion) the only rifles that need to be semi-auto are assault style and the only worthwhile handgun in semi is the 1911.-----------Sixgun

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:51 am

A good shoulder holster would help, but I've never heard anyone refer to them as 'comfortable'.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:00 am

I've always found a .22 adequate on the trail/hiking.

While I usually tote a .22WRM Charter DA revolver, lately I've been taken with a slim semi-auto, ala: Woodsman/H-S.

.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:08 am

If you decide on a full size 9mm, I have a sig Tacops in 9mm for sale in the classified. 20+1 capacity, high vis night sights and 8 extra mags with two holsters.

The Glock 20 is the only semi I have used as a woods walking gun (10mm) outside of the 1911 platform. I have owned several of them over the years. I currenty prefer a SA or DA revolver in .44 mag but for years used a .357. These were my dedicated woods walking firearms. I have often carried my CCW in the woods as a matter of conveinance. Good luck on your decision.

wolfdog · Post by **wolfdog** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:26 am

azmark wrote:Heavy guns like my 1911 will flat pull my pants down, hence the search for a lighter weapon. Buffalo Bore makes some pretty serious 9mm loads.

I'm selling the GP 100 to finance the new gun.

Why not get a shoulder holster for what you have? If gun you have now will pull your pants down, so will a lighter one it will just take a bit longer. Or you could get some suspenders.
I myself do not really like belt carry in the woods, I find I don't get hung up in brush and bang the pistol about as much with a shoulder holster.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:55 am

I have two semiautos that I use as "trail guns". One is a little S&W P22 that fits in my back pocket and goes along when I know I'm pretty sure I wont have any large animal conffrontations. I think I'm one of the few whose had excellent service from this model, as I hear people often complaining about them.
The other semi is my S&W 745 in .45 ACP. It's a full sized pistol and I like that in a trail gun. I don't want something small that wont handle recoil as well, and I'm also very familiar with this gun, and you need to feel that way about any gun you're carrying as backup. I use a pancake holster in the small of my back that rides nicely and is easily accessible.

mos · Post by **mos** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:38 am

azmark wrote:I'm working on getting a hiking gun. I'm leaning heavily toward Glock because they have a great discount program for LE/Military. 9mm seems an appropriate caliber. A subcompact would be really convenient, but a couple of buddies seem to think a bigger frame makes more sense. I thought small would be good; maybe I'm missing something.

Unless you plan on hiking in brown bear territory, a Glock 19 loaded with high end ammo (DPX, Gold Dot +P, etc) is a very comfortable - and comforting - carry option. I agree that it is a better alternative than a sub-compact 26 for your intended use, and it's probably better than a full size 17 or 21 as well, due to "packability".

I like my evolvers as much as the next guy, but do yourself a favor and check out the real world ballistic data comparing a 4" 9x19 loaded hot with a 2"-3" .357 loaded to sane/controllable/comfortable levels..... The results may surprise you.

Michael

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:59 am

azmark wrote:....I'm selling the GP 100 to finance the new gun.

AAAAUUUGGGHHH!

OK... I'm OK now...

If you don't like the weight, trade the GP100 for an SP101.

IMO revolvers will always be a better "trail gun" because they feed shot shells reliably.

When I'm out and about, I have 3 concerns: Snakes, 2-legged Snakes, and large carnivores.

First load fired in my SP101 is snake shot. After that is 4 180gr HPs. I can make a mess in a hurry if necessary.

My "speed strip" loaders are either 5 180gr +P+ solids +1 shot load or 5 180gr +P HPs + 1 shot load. I keep some .38sp/9mm equivalent loads handy for "pot shooting" if necessary.

An SP101 is almost identical in size & weight to a G27 (.40).

I see no advantage in the woods/trails to quantities of ammo & rapid reloads that semi-autos afford unless you are going into known hostile/reconquista/illegal-alien corridors.

That and the 180s are good out to over 100yds out of a rifle...

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:01 am

mos wrote:
azmark wrote:..I like my evolvers as much as the next guy, but do yourself a favor and check out the real world ballistic data comparing a 4" 9x19 loaded hot with a 2"-3" .357 loaded to sane/controllable/comfortable levels..... The results may surprise you. Michael

I've surprised quite a few people with the controllability of 180gr loads out of an SP101. They are much easier to shoot than the 158s or the 125s...

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:14 am

Pete44ru wrote:I've always found a .22 adequate on the trail/hiking.

While I usually tote a .22WRM Charter DA revolver, lately I've been taken with a slim semi-auto, ala: Woodsman/H-S.

.

KelTec PM30? That's a lot of light-weight punch... Not adequate for large carnivores or snakes, but good for about anything else...

mos · Post by **mos** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:39 am

Old Ironsights wrote:
mos wrote:
azmark wrote:..I like my evolvers as much as the next guy, but do yourself a favor and check out the real world ballistic data comparing a 4" 9x19 loaded hot with a 2"-3" .357 loaded to sane/controllable/comfortable levels..... The results may surprise you. Michael
I've surprised quite a few people with the controllability of 180gr loads out of an SP101. They are much easier to shoot than the 158s or the 125s...

The only 180s I have ev shot out of an sp101 were Buffalo Bore boomers..... Definitely NOT controllable (by me) and they hurt like hell.....

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:57 am

Nothing wrong with a small Glock. I hate the fact that I let my compact G36 (45acp) get away to a pinhead, ex SIL. I didn't think it kicked much, but then again, I didn't think my BFR in 45-70 was too bad, either. The G36 was accurate enough to shoot grouse with 230fmj. I don't think anything out there can walk away with a well placed 230fmj in the CNS, or heart.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:02 pm

mos wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:
mos wrote:
azmark wrote:..I like my evolvers as much as the next guy, but do yourself a favor and check out the real world ballistic data comparing a 4" 9x19 loaded hot with a 2"-3" .357 loaded to sane/controllable/comfortable levels..... The results may surprise you. Michael
I've surprised quite a few people with the controllability of 180gr loads out of an SP101. They are much easier to shoot than the 158s or the 125s...
The only 180s I have ev shot out of an sp101 were Buffalo Bore boomers..... Definitely NOT controllable (by me) and they hurt like hell.....

My day-to-day carry load is the Federal 180gr SJHP. It is FAR more controllable (to me) than regular 158gr loads.

To me, the Buffalo Bore 180 loads are on par (recoil wise) with white box 158gr SJSPs...

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:46 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:
azmark wrote:....I'm selling the GP 100 to finance the new gun.

AAAAUUUGGGHHH!

OK... I'm OK now...

I see no advantage in the woods/trails to quantities of ammo & rapid reloads that semi-autos afford unless you are going into known hostile/reconquista/illegal-alien corridors.
:

That was roughly my thought too

but back on point -- OP, you mentioned shoulder holsters possibly not being comfortable -- maybe not but an option that is more comfortable is the across the chest or across the belly holster -- these are nice for carrying heavier firearms in the woods or on horseback/ATV's etc . Heavier usually means something like a 6" revolver or bigger , but i have seen people carry 1911's in one of these.

but with a proper gunbelt and holster combo, you should be able to tote a 1911 or 4" revolver comfortably on your side all day --

check out El Paso Saddlery if you haven't already- they probably have some more cool carry options for ya (edit: i just looked at their site, the tanker holster is the one i was thinking of -- they have a lot of nice stuff , expensive, but you get what ya pay for )

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:22 pm

azmark wrote:I'm selling the GP 100 to finance the new gun.

A loaded compact Glock weighs about the same and is about the same size, so this makes no sense to me unless you just want a Glock and are looking for an excuse. And there's nothing wrong with that! Just make sure you're being honest with yourself.

Oly

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:38 pm

Get a Glock G20--------------and have no regrets!

16rds of stout 10mm----------------if your trailing it anyway(why not go with a tad extra weight/size)----for what ya get.
No worries packing that! (feels good with a Blackhawk holster)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EMk3PL ... re=related

.Dirty-.Thirty · Post by **.Dirty-.Thirty** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:56 pm

A Glock 17 is a fine trail gun, pack mine often.... .DT

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:20 pm

BlaineG wrote:I didn't think my BFR in 45-70 was too bad, either.

Now THERE'S a 'Trail Gun' . . .

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:35 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
BlaineG wrote:I didn't think my BFR in 45-70 was too bad, either.
Now THERE'S a 'Trail Gun' . . .

With it's 10" bbl, I carried it hunting cradled in the left arm @ the elbow, left hand on the butt. It was a real handful.

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:01 pm

Glock 27 .40 S&W. 9 to 22 shot magazines. Enough close range power to knock down a bear. Enough firepower for a zombie invasion.

eric65 · Post by **eric65** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:46 pm

I really need new glasses, I thought the topic was semiauto RAIL gun

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:54 pm

I am not much of a Glock fan, but I guess they have grown on me, as I now own 3 of them. I have a Glock 22 (full sized 40cal) a Glock 17 (full sized 9mm) and a Glock 19 (mid sized 9mm) I like them all, but the last one I bought the 19, I really like because it's a little smaller, but still has plenty of magazine capacity, and mine shoots great. While I have been a big bore fan forever, I have shot enough stuff with the 9mm with good hollowpoint loads to feel confortable with one on the trail.

Another gun that I have been tempted by is the Glock 34 which is a longer barreled version of the 17 which would give more sight radius and probably more velocity out of the 9mm.

Frankly if the 9mm won't do it, I would just as soon go straight on up to the 44mag, either a 4-5/8 Ruger single action or a 4" model 29 if I was staying with factory loads, if handloading then the 45 long colt would be OK too.

I do like the idea of the G19 for a trail gun, as it its a little lighter and with a couple of extra mags (you can even carry a G17 mag for more capacity if you want) There's not much I couldn't turn in the lower 48, if I had time to get it in action, except maybe a big bear.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:56 pm

eric65 wrote:I really need new glasses, I thought the topic was semiauto RAIL gun

Me too at first! Got all excited.

Oly

K1500 · Post by **K1500** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:56 pm

I use a Glock 20sf and love it.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:03 pm

I have a Ruger P95 and P97 15 rounds in 9mm or 8 rounds in 45 auto. Feel nicer in my hand than a Glock. They both are SA or DA on first shot. Are usually $150 to $200 cheaper to bot. CDNN also has S&W 659 for $340.

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:17 pm

azmark wrote:
....I'm selling the GP 100 to finance the new gun.

AAAAUUUGGGHHH!

OK... I'm OK now...

I see no advantage in the woods/trails to quantities of ammo & rapid reloads that semi-autos afford unless you are going into known hostile/reconquista/illegal-alien corridors.
:

Street Star,

It's a 6 inch GP, so it does weigh more. Also, I live .7 miles from Mexico and will be hiking the same mountains where dead Mexicans are found from time to time. It's never released how they died.

A few weeks ago a neighbor one road over went out to walk his property and found a 100 kilo bale of pot. We live on the "illegal highway". Never hurts to have more rounds loaded.

[img]https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 0393_n.jpg
[/img]

Here we are on Google Earth

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:25 pm

I'm actually not 100% sold on the Glocks after shopping some more. The Smith M&P feels good as do the Ruger SRs and P345. I'm retired military and Glock gives us a great deal on their guns. The G19 and G26 are still on the list.

I really think I'll go for a 9mm because of practice ammo cost. I think I should practice as much as I can.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:29 pm

If you buy a Glock or S&W M+P in 40S+W you can get barrels in 9mm. Dpending on your mood you can switch from one caliber to another.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:54 pm

Yep, that's pretty close!

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:10 pm

How do you find the recoil of the 40 S&W? I thought it was overly 'snappy' and more uncomfortable than .45 ACP. I suppose it's something you get used to. It's hard to fin ammo at a decent price, though.

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:30 pm

If you are worried about a heavier gun pulling your pants down, you might take a look at the Simply Rugged chest holster. Rob Leahy makes some quality leather, and his chest holster system converts your paddle style belt holster into a holster that sits on your chest so it's not riding under your arm. That way your holster doesn't have to be a designated chest holster, you can remove the straps and put on a belt. Just a thought.

In any case, I'd go with something bigger than a 9mm. I'm just not a big fan of the caliber. In handguns I'm not a huge fan of any caliber that doesn't start with a 4 and end with a 5

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:39 pm

azmark wrote:azmark wrote:

I see no advantage in the woods/trails to quantities of ammo & rapid reloads that semi-autos afford unless you are going into known hostile/reconquista/illegal-alien corridors.

Problem is you cannot predict where a hostile environment might be.
Come up on three meth makers in the woods where you would never suspect etc.???????
Have a close bear encounter????????(mother bear charging/rather have 15 than 6 in a minimal handgun by that meaning compared to actual big game handguns)
Just thinking that (the bad guy)might have a large cap semi-auto(makes me want to be at least on same playing field for defense)
Question is-----------------why not???

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:58 am

Well now that I see where you live I totally undersand the capacity issue. Good call.

azmark wrote:How do you find the recoil of the 40 S&W? I thought it was overly 'snappy' and more uncomfortable than .45 ACP. I suppose it's something you get used to. It's hard to fin ammo at a decent price, though.

Frankly, I think it IS more "snappy" than a .45, but I like that it's got quite a bit more power than a 9mm yet still has good capacity. In a full frame pistol like an M&P 40 or Springfield XDm (or double stack 1911) I find it perfectly acceptable. In compacts not so much - I wont own one. That's what 9mm is for.

Springfield makes a version of the XDm that's meant to be carried with a slightly smaller mag, but for practice you pop in a full length mag that makes it more comfortable. It's a nice pistol and a cool concept.

Also a nice option:

Oly

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:54 am

Where you live looks like the country where they filmed "No Country For Old Men" ----

Carry the Glock, 2 more magazines, plus keep an M4 variant reasonably close !

(The tanker holster setup from El Paso Saddlery is still a darn cool way to carry it though)

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:07 am

Deleted

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:32 am

I think COSteve is on to something here with the penitration of the old 45 auto at least in the real short barrels. Years ago my neighbor emptied his little colt officers modle into my old mailbox that was sitting at a little bit of an angle at about 15 yards, not one of those fmj's made it through both sides of that tin mailbox. I've seen car hoods the 45acp has skidded over and once was even struck in the leg by one when shooting at a frozen log at about 30 yards. I still love the 45acp but in a real short gun I think there might br better options for a trail gun. I wouldn't lose to much sleep if I had the 9mm. One of the cheaper centerfire handguns to shoot anyhow.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:03 pm

The 10mm has better numbers, but, the .45acp has history, outstanding performance, is ubiquitous, and vastly cheaper to plink/practice with. If I had any doubt about 230fmj, I would get some Buffalo Bore, 255gr, flat tip, hardcast +P. There are also some 230gr fmj flat tips out there that penetrate better than most. Honestly, I think it's the 30-06 vs. 300 Win Mag argument again. Another idea, if a SA is more one's style, could be a Blackhawk convertable; Plink/practice with .45acp, and carry some 300gr Super Thumpers in the woods. But, now we're back to bigger pieces, including yours. The OP wanted a compact piece.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:28 pm

Lots to be said for the 45ACP. Great for two-legged varmints, a little
heavy for squirrels, and maybe a little light for bears. Although I can't
see how it wouldn't do the job on a black bear at arm's length.

All of that said, Colt has reissued their Delta Elite!

So, you can buy
a 10mm in the GI 45 package again. Plenty of power for deer, black bear,
and sub-human bottom-feeding sociopaths, although it too may be a wee bit
too much for the above-mentioned tree rats.

The big, and really only disadvantage of the 10mm round is the price
(Yikes!

) and local availibility of factory ammunition. Everybody has
40 auto or 45ACP on the shelf - 10mm not so much. Fortunately it's easy to reload
for. I've never found cases particularly plentiful locally - your mileage my vary. In
the Colt platform, only the very heaviest loads recoil harder than the 45 ACP.
They don't hurt, but recoil control becomes much more critical.

Dandy trail gun, though........

-Stretch

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:38 pm

JMO, but I'd never think of a revolver or a pistol as a trail gun.

Gimme a sturdy rifle or a carbine in a caliber suitable to the fauna.

A Model 94 Trapper in .30WCF would be dandy.

The semi-auto issue might make me look at something like Marlin's old Camp 45.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:53 pm

Well, I've been keeping out of this but having nothing to do and just sitting here waiting for the phone to ring so...

The first question is, where's your trail. In the east something smaller is just fine, but out west I know I'd like something bigger. Bigger as in big enough there's not many options in an easily carried pistol vs revolver. If that was the case I like Steve's choice although I HAVE a .45 ACP 1911. Thing is that is not what I'd carry, I'd carry a SA of some type in .45 Colt or .44 Special. Other guns are too much for the hip, at least my hip. If I think I might like a .22 along I ALSO pack a Bearcat or S&W Kit Gun. But then, I'm no longer confined to one gun. When I was I carried, surprise-surprise, a .357 Magnum revolver. Mine was the stainless Security Six. Not perfect for everything but it worked for everything around here.

So, it is your money and I know you will do with it what you will but I also know that you probably won't be satisfied with your first choice and so long as we can you'll be trying other options. Have fun with it!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:14 pm

walks with gun wrote:I think COSteve is on to something here with the penitration of the old 45 auto at least in the real short barrels. Years ago my neighbor emptied his little colt officers modle into my old mailbox that was sitting at a little bit of an angle at about 15 yards, not one of those fmj's made it through both sides of that tin mailbox. I've seen car hoods the 45acp has skidded over and once was even struck in the leg by one when shooting at a frozen log at about 30 yards. I still love the 45acp but in a real short gun I think there might br better options for a trail gun. I wouldn't lose to much sleep if I had the 9mm. One of the cheaper centerfire handguns to shoot anyhow.

That can be remedied, somewhat, (in a ramped 1911 at any rate) by installing a buffer and a heavy recoil spring and using +P loads that run it near winmag velocities....

pneuby · Post by **pneuby** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:07 pm

You have the cats near the border, big time. Don't know about the bears. THere was a rabid bobcat in Tucson a couple years back that attacked at least two people, if not three. While I understand the need/want for something hi-cap, I also see the need for something more reliable for the 4-legged attackers. If there's any way you can keep the GP, that's a fine option. Any sort of chest-rig, as the the above poster mentioned.