OT: Flags Of Our Fathers..........

[Blaine]

I'm prolly the last person in the USA to see it, but I have to say it left me unsettled and vaguely angry. Anyone else? Almost like they were tearing down an honored institution. Anyone else? Youngsters are going to see that and come away with negative feelings about WWII and the greatest generation...... Hope I'm wrong.

[Jeeps]

I still have yet to see it Blaine. But in this day and age it won't surprise me
that they have snuck in some anti-USA propaganda.

I didn't see Passion of the Christ till it came out on DVD and when I see Flags
of our Fathers in the store (I think it's there now) I'll be sure to pick it up.

I usually have a very emotional time watching anything that has to do with
my core belief system. God, Country, and Corps.

As a side note, I watched the original Planet of the Apes the other night with
my son. I haven't seen it since I was pretty young and don't remember them
being so hard on religion. It was weird to see a movie with Charlton Heston that
basically put down religion.

[Rusty]

I'm not sure I want to see it. I was thinking of renting "Letters from Iwo Jima" to view the other side's look into it. I'm not even sure I want to see that any more. I'm gettin really tired of anything that smells like politics.

[Slick13]

I'm prolly the last person in the USA to see it, but I have to say it left me unsettled and vaguely angry. Anyone else? Almost like they were tearing down an honored institution. Anyone else? Youngsters are going to see that and come away with negative feelings about WWII and the greatest generation...... Hope I'm wrong.

What didn't you like about it? I thought both it and it's companion movie Letters from Iwo Jima were pretty good.

~Michael

[Ysabel Kid]

I just picked it up this weekend - on sale at Circuit City. Haven't seen it yet myself!

[big medicine]

The movie has been out in stores probably close to a year now. I thought it was a pretty well done movie. James Bradley who is the son of Corpsman John Bradley worked closely with Clint Eastwood in the making of the movie. I think their portrail of the 3 survivors Rene Gagnon, John Bradley, and Ira Hayes is pretty close to what it was. The War Bonds tour was a dog and pony show to raise money for the war. I don't feel that it showed America in a bad light at all. It sure didn't show the Marine Corps in a bad way either.

[Blaine]

I'm prolly the last person in the USA to see it, but I have to say it left me unsettled and vaguely angry. Anyone else? Almost like they were tearing down an honored institution. Anyone else? Youngsters are going to see that and come away with negative feelings about WWII and the greatest generation...... Hope I'm wrong.

What didn't you like about it? I thought both it and it's companion movie Letters from Iwo Jima were pretty good.

~Michael

I'm not entirely sure...... Maybe the Dog and Pony show aspect and the disrespect shown Hays in the movie.....When ya see a 4 Star Marine General saying things like ...." G.D. Drunken Injun...send him back to the front and no, he can't stop and see his Mother....." Grrrrrr Yeah, it's prolly just a dose of reality that upset me off...... No detraction to the Grunts, that's a given with me.

[71fan]

I read the book and thought it was excellent, but I haven't seen the movie. I came away from the book with nothing but respect and admiration for the corp and that generation in general. Hayes did have it rough and could have been treated differently, but those were different times and he was becoming quite an embarrasment.

Bradley also wrote "Flyboys" which is another great book, but probably wouldn't work as a movie in this day and age. I do highly recommend it though. It's about a group of downed pilot POWs in the Pacific theater. It's a very gruesome glimpse into the behavior of the Japanese toward our boys. Bradley presents it in a similar fashion as "Flags, " giving each pilot's history and bringing them all together.

[don Tomás]

I just picked it up this weekend - on sale at Circuit City. Haven't seen it yet myself!

Jay, I'm curious to know your take is on Flags and Letters From Iwo Jima. My wife & I liked both and I thought that both were probably closer to the truth than not. Anyway, I'd like to know your thoughts. Thanks!
Tom

(That's if you survive your air travel, of course...)

[RSY]

It's a very gruesome glimpse into the behavior of the Japanese toward our boys.

Not to mention the behavior of the USAAF toward the Japanese civilian citizenry.

If there's one thing that book teaches, it's that there was enough "gruesome" to go around for everyone.

scott

[Jeeps]

It's a very gruesome glimpse into the behavior of the Japanese toward our boys.

Not to mention the behavior of the USAAF toward the Japanese civilian citizenry.

If there's one thing that book teaches, it's that there was enough "gruesome" to go around for everyone.

scott

I hate to say it, but that's how wars are won. If you take a look into the past
the harder and more vicious you are the quicker they capitulate. All the firebombings
of mainland Japan and Germany that we did, and shortly after the war we all
became allies. Absolute and total surrender is the only way to truly end a war.

Now look around the world at every place we or others have held back.

Korea, Somalia, First gulf war, hostages in Iran, there are many others. If you go to war and
do not show TOTAL DOMINANCE then it will be just as bad if not worse after.

War is about two sets of mind facing off against each other, plain and simple.

If one isn't crushed it will FESTER AND ROT and become even more dangerous.

I'm a firm believer in diplomacy, but once it goes bad you can never have
diplomacy again until one side has been utterly defeated.

How many times in our past have we been winning a war and taken the bait
and sat down for diplomacy only to have it realized that it was a stalling measure
to gain our enemies rest and time to regroup or flee to safety.

I just hope someday we will learn you can have either diplomacy or war but
not both at the same time, it just doesn't work.

[71fan]

It's a very gruesome glimpse into the behavior of the Japanese toward our boys.

Not to mention the behavior of the USAAF toward the Japanese civilian citizenry.

If there's one thing that book teaches, it's that there was enough "gruesome" to go around for everyone.

scott

I agree...I should have mentioned that too. There are very vivid naratives of the fire bombing conducted by the US on the Japanese citizens (primarily factory cities), which reportedly killed more than the two atom bombs combined.

And I agree with Jeeps. It was us or them. Total domination was necessary.

[Jeeps]

There are very vivid naratives of the fire bombing conducted by the US on the Japanese citizens (primarily factory cities), which reportedly killed more than the two atom bombs combined.

I couldn't even imagine the terror of the firebombings, with the heat rising into
the sky hurricane force winds dragging people into the flames to feed the
storm.

To be honest, I believe if we had firebombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki it would
have equaled the same ending to the war. I'm no expert but to look at the
utter destruction from earlier firebombings I would think MORE people would
have perished if we had firebombed instead of A-bombing them.

They will always say that the A-bombs saved American lives and shortened
the war. But I think not.(hindsight=20/20) But I think the viewing of the
nuclear attack by the rest of the world sent a clear message and might have
prevented hostilities in Europe soon after WWII by the Russians.

[cas]

I've seen both films several times, I think you're way off base.

[Blaine]

I've seen both films several times, I think you're way off base.

Ya notice I was askin' and not tellin'........

[GANJIRO]

I have seen both films I think they were both an excellent and accurate portrayal of both sides of the conflict. I feel I have a unique perspective here having combatants on both sides with my mother in her teen years recruited to be a nurse to treat these victims of the fire bombings Tokyo. She saw more death and destruction than a hundred combat veterans combined. I am surprised she would even consider marrying a Yankee (but then again that Yankee was Nelson J. Fay). My Dad (US Army) also eyewitnessed the savage brutality of the Japanese throughout the Pacific Theatre especially in the Philipines where he supplied the Guerrillas fighting the Japs. Some of the rare **** here (you know who you are) have suggested that my mother should have been destroyed with the rest of the evil yellow skin devils, and one moron even stated that the evil Japanese corrupted the pure German race thus leading to the creation of Naziism (all the Jap's fault). The Japanese war machine needed to be, and was destroyed thoroughly by the USA, and thank goodness it was the US instead of the USSR or Japan would not today be the USA's strongest ally next to UK. Too many people who have NO real connection with this conflict yet are quick to pass judgement when the REAL heroes who actually fought in the war have already forgiven their former enemies. As suggested by many here watch both movies (2 thumbs up) then read the book "FLYBOYS". War is hell and this book showed the brutality of man towards man regardless of race or nationality.
Don't be fooled, the only hope for mankind is GOD's Kingdom, nowhere else.

[Jeeps]

Some of the rare **** here (you know who you are) have suggested that my mother should have been destroyed with the rest of the evil yellow skin devils, and one moron even stated that the evil Japanese corrupted the pure German race thus leading to the creation of Naziism (all the Jap's fault).

I for one have read your posts about your family and people in your life.

I have nothing but total respect for your parents. They did right by You.
They did right by the world. It is a better world for their being a part of it.

The negative things that were posted were before my time here.

It is truly amazing the thought processes the human mind can come up with.

God bless ya Ji, and just keep being You. The one your parents made.

[PPpastordon]

Ji;
Well stated. People who have fought the good fight have long since forgiven while the armchair warriors still want to impress through hate. IDIOTS!

"Don't be fooled, the only hope for mankind is GOD's Kingdom, nowhere else." True yesterday, today and all of our tomorrows.

Grace and Peace.

[Ysabel Kid]

I just picked it up this weekend - on sale at Circuit City. Haven't seen it yet myself!

Jay, I'm curious to know your take is on Flags and Letters From Iwo Jima. My wife & I liked both and I thought that both were probably closer to the truth than not. Anyway, I'd like to know your thoughts. Thanks!
Tom

(That's if you survive your air travel, of course...)

Tom -

I survived the first half of my trip this week anyway!

Going to be a couple weeks before I can see it. I get home late tonight (again, if the airlines do their part). Next week I volunteered (was drafted) to chaperone my son's 4th grade class on a 3-day/2 night field trip to the Barrier Islands in SC. Assuming I survive that (less chance than flying - I should probably post a prayer request! ), I get back and turn around and have a family camp out next weekend with the Cub Scouts!

Yes, I'm a glutton for punishment!

Still waiting for "Letters from Iwo Jima" to go on sale, but I will let you know what I think of both!

[Jeeps]

I'm prolly the last person in the USA to see it, but I have to say it left me unsettled and vaguely angry. Anyone else? Almost like they were tearing down an honored institution. Anyone else? Youngsters are going to see that and come away with negative feelings about WWII and the greatest generation...... Hope I'm wrong.

What didn't you like about it? I thought both it and it's companion movie Letters from Iwo Jima were pretty good.

~Michael

I'm not entirely sure...... Maybe the Dog and Pony show aspect and the disrespect shown Hays in the movie.....When ya see a 4 Star Marine General saying things like ...." G.D. Drunken Injun...send him back to the front and no, he can't stop and see his Mother....." Grrrrrr Yeah, it's prolly just a dose of reality that upset me off...... No detraction to the Grunts, that's a given with me.

I'm going to make a guess and say you probably have the same thought
processes as I do Blaine.

Things like our Armed forces during WWII and the American ideals that founded
this country, also my Roman Catholic faith, I put them on a pedestal and think of them only as "perfect".

If I sense any negativity whatsoever I tend to go on the defensive pretty quickly. Even though negative things did happen in those times I tend to cling
to the positive and not want to think of or dwell on the negative.

Ira Hayes was a true American hero, I realize that he had problems in his
personal life, but if we can concentrate on the positive it gives goals for the
common man to strive for. This is what makes us great.

I pretty sure that the Bible didn't relate to us "every single aspect" of the
life of Jesus Christ, it points to the great things he did to give us an example
or a ruler if you will to measure our own worth, to make us think.

[big medicine]

It was a different time and place. My Dad went in on two invasions with the 96th ID and they would have made the invasion on Japan. I heard my Dad say more than once that he never expected to survive that. After the savage fighting on Leyte and Okinawa he really felt it was only a matter of time and his turn was next.

I spent two years in Japan when I was in the military in the early 80's. That place is an island fortress with more caves and bunkers, tunnels ect. The cost of lives both Japanese and American would have been unthinkable.

As far as the USAAF they did their jobs. It was war and their job was to bomb the enemy into submission and destroy their ability to make war. That is never a humane thing. My Dad survived because of what they did, and I'm able to walk this earth because of what they did, my kids are here because of what they did. It would have been unthinkable for an American commander to allow whole sale slaughter of their troops when they had the means to stop it. Let's not forget that the USS Arizona still lays right where the Japanese left it and they fired the opening shots that lead to a very destructive and costly war for both sides.

My Dad has been gone 11 years now, he never had any ill will towards the Japanese. Like he told me once. "It was a war, both sides did what they felt was right, we just happened to win."

[Old Time Hunter]

From my perspective; both films are spot on especially 'Flags of Our Father'. Back a few years when the elder Bradley gent was still alive one of the local papers chronicled the account from Mr. Bradley(he became the local mortician!). He did not spend a heck of a lot of time discussing the events in and around raising the Flag, but did expond upon the "dog and pony show", saying it didn't take into account the sacrifices of those left behind and he felt the American people deserved better... that they were smarter than that.