Model 92 help needed

[jnyork]

I need someone who is really good with Model 92's. I bought a Puma 92 and got the Stevesgunz DVD to help me get it smoothed up. I got it apart, got the work done, started putting back togather. All went exactly as the DVD says, that is until time to put in the lever/locking blocks. No matter what I do, I cannot seem to get the assembly to go in , and when I do, I close the bolt like the DVD says and it absolutely locks everything up and takes considerable fiddling around with to get it open again. I have watched the DVD so many times I have it memorized word for word, I have tried probably 40 times to get the lever assembly in, no joy. I emailed Steve but so far no reply. Anybody had an experience like this they want to share, or any ideas of what I should be looking for? Thanks

[AJMD429]

Hard to visualize the exact situation, so our questions about the scenario might seem silly, but....

Are you sure the ejector went fully into the bolt-face during reassembly...? That's usually the most difficult part.

[Pete44ru]

I've found that it helps to slip an empty cartridge case in the boltface, under the extractor during assembly - AND to make double sure that the lever/bolt connecting pin isn't sticking a little out of one side of the bolt or the other, and catching the bolt somewhere in it's travel, locking up the works.



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[Griff]

When you say,

...and when I do, I close the bolt like the DVD says and it absolutely locks everything up and takes considerable fiddling around with to get it open again.
Thanks

do you have the bolt/lever pin in?

I'm not sure how Steve describes the process, but... I always put in the lever alone and get the pin in... then put in the locking lugs. It's been awhile since I did one. But... if you look at Marauder's 92 Disassembly Instructions, you can see that simply reversing that process will get it back together. However, I've always found it easier to concentrate on the front of the bolt, with the ejector, spring, collar and lever with the lugs just hand pushed into position in order to get the lever/bolt pin in place. Once that's in, I can simply push the lug back down and connect it to the lever. In fact, I generally only use one lug to get the lever/bolt pin in place. Remember, the ejector and it's parts need to be in when you install this pin.

Hope that helps til someone better than me comes along.

[jnyork]

Spent another few hours with it today, making some progress, got the bolt, lever and locking blocks all in the way they are supposed to go, but no amount of jiggling will allow me to install the bolt retainer pin, it goes in easily about 3/4 of the way and there it sits. Will try some more tomorrow.

I tell you, fellers, if I even LOOK LIKE I might want to buy another rifle that even LOOKS like a Winchester lever gun, I hope one of you will do me the favor of kicking my behind. This is my first excursion into this nightmare and it will be the last. I have 6 different Marlin lever guns and they are such a vastly superior product in terms of being able to service them there is no comparison. Rant off. For now.

[Griff]

Once you learn the proper way to hold your tongue inside your cheek, Winchesters are a piece of cake! I learned on a Winchester 94, and while the '92 is a tad more tedious, it isn't really any more difficult...

Once you grow that 3rd hand! The Marlin might be the more elegant design (if simple is the equivalent of elegant), but not a vastly superior product. Just simpler.

[earlmck]

I have 6 different Marlin lever guns and they are such a vastly superior product in terms of being able to service them there is no comparison.

I know whereof you speak! Both Browning and Pederson may have been geniuses, but they sure wouldn't use one big part when 6 little parts could do the same job.

That step giving you poop right now -- getting the bolt retainer pin in -- I've sure had the same experience you are undergoing. But I have had best luck doing that with the bolt partly open (about where you can almost see the end of the cartridge case of the dummy cartridge you have used for assembly to this point). Then wiggle-jiggl-press with the lever until the pin goes in. Then finish tapping it tightly in place with your punch.

Or maybe try Griff's strategy: I hadn't ever tried putting in the retainer pin before getting the lugs in. That's a new way for me.

Good luck with it!

[Cimarron Red]

jnyork,

I'm just going from memory here, but I believe you need to push the firing pin forward otherwise it will prevent the bolt retainer pin from going all the way into its fit.

[1894c]

my answer to reassembling the Rossi M92 was to replace it with a Marlin...don't get me wrong, really like the M92, but for me i enjoy the simplicity of the Marlin... :)

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Sorry for the delay getting back to you. I had some follow-up doc appointments in Houston here lately.

Ok,
While still out of the gun use the lever in the bolt to line everything up as you hook the dummy round under the extractor to hold it all together. Then carefully remove the lever and slide the bolt back into the receiver.
If you have the lever to bolt pin 3/4 started just use a pin punch to drive it on in. Once you get it in, the action may be stiff to very stiff. But, that is most likely because the pin is dragging on the inside and needs to be centered. Just open the action some and give the bolt a whack on the side with a soft mallet. This helps center the pin. hope this helps.

[deafrn]

I tell you, fellers, if I even LOOK LIKE I might want to buy another rifle that even LOOKS like a Winchester lever gun, I hope one of you will do me the favor of kicking my behind. This is my first excursion into this nightmare and it will be the last. I have 6 different Marlin lever guns and they are such a vastly superior product in terms of being able to service them there is no comparison. Rant off. For now.

I agree about the "procedural" benefits of the Marlins, and the older I get, the more I appreciate the design. To me, the pistol-caliber Marlins are no match for the Winchesters/clones handling-wise or in overall feel... almost like comparing the feel of a family sedan to a sports car. I hadn't used my Marlins for some time, so after I sold my pet Rossi, going back to an 1894CSS felt like going back to using a brick. Nonetheless, the "bricks" are just easier for some of us to live with. There's my gentle, pre-emptive kick.

Until I got Steve's video I used to dread re-assembling Rossis, but over time it just became a routine bit of maintenance, although still too lengthy. One pre-bolt safety Rossi of mine was tolerance-stacked such that the pin in question always lined up with difficulty and rather to the rear of the bolt pin plug hole in the receiver, so it was always a PITA to dis- and re-assemble until the day it was traded in on an 1894C-- the rest were not nearly as bad. Hopefully your Rossi will, as they say, "ride up with wear" and at least become a bit easier to get everything lined up.

[Pete44ru]

Spent another few hours with it today, making some progress, got the bolt, lever and locking blocks all in the way they are supposed to go, but no amount of jiggling will allow me to install the bolt retainer pin.
I tell you, fellers, if I even LOOK LIKE I might want to buy another rifle that even LOOKS like a Winchester lever gun, I hope one of you will do me the favor of kicking my behind. This is my first excursion into this nightmare and it will be the last. I have 6 different Marlin lever guns and they are such a vastly superior product in terms of being able to service them there is no comparison. Rant off. For now.

Ferrari's always take more fiddlin' than Volkswagens...................... (jes' sayin' ) .


.

[flightsimmer]

My method may be the same as already described but it's all in the telling.

What I do is install the ejector, ejector spring and that little sleeve into the bolt face, making sure it's all aligned visually, then I hook an empty cartridge under the extractor and hold it in place with my finger while I slide the bolt assembly into the receiver untill the cartridge starts into the chamber. That will hold everythig in place while I insert the lever in place and then the pin through the whole in the left side of the receiver. It should go easily or with a light tap then you can install the hole plug screw.

The rest should be easy except that some times the wood stock tang that holds the hammer spring can be tight to slide into place in the receiver so you might need to find out why if that occurs and fix it.

After my first couple of times, I found it easy to entirely disassemble and reassemble the receiver in about 15-20 minutes and I really like the '92 Win/Rossi design.

The only improvement I would like to see is what I think they call "positive cartridge feed" where the round is held by the rim untill it feeds into the chamber like the Win 9422.

[jnyork]

Sorry for the delay getting back to you. I had some follow-up doc appointments in Houston here lately.

Ok,
While still out of the gun use the lever in the bolt to line everything up as you hook the dummy round under the extractor to hold it all together. Then carefully remove the lever and slide the bolt back into the receiver.
If you have the lever to bolt pin 3/4 started just use a pin punch to drive it on in. Once you get it in, the action may be stiff to very stiff. But, that is most likely because the pin is dragging on the inside and needs to be centered. Just open the action some and give the bolt a whack on the side with a soft mallet. This helps center the pin. hope this helps.

Ok, Steve, thanks for the reply and I hope you come out ok with your doctorin'.

When you say "line everything up", I assume you are talking about the ejector shaft, there is nothing else there to line up unless I am missing a part. I have done this several times to no profit.

I had a problem with the pin, it had a burr on it, would not even go back in the bolt with the bolt out. Polished it out and now it goes in like it should. I get to the point where I can slip the pin in about 3/4 the way with everything in place (I think) and there it stops. No amount of jiggling will do any good, the bolt at this point is locked up in place, will not wiggle at all. A tap or two with a little hammer reveals the pin is up against something SOLID, will not budge any further. The two times I have managed to get it in, the action is then completely frozen up and wont move a thousandth. Your vid shows everything just falling into place and operating smoothly and loosely, wont happen for me, I am doing something wrong but am totally baffled as to what.

[Griff]

Coupla thoughts:
1. Are both guides screwed down tight?
2. Right pin? IIRC, all 3 of my Rossis have a beveled edge that goes in to aid aligning it thru the lever and bolt holes; the flush, square cut end is the end you drive it in from.
3. Is your firing pin in correctly, the rear must match the back contour of the bolt, it has to have the flat, center section verticle to allow the lever ears up along either side of it.
4. Lever needs to be all the way up inside the bolt for it to keep the firing pin aligned and the slot in it open.

[jnyork]

Coupla thoughts:
1. Are both guides screwed down tight?
2. Right pin? IIRC, all 3 of my Rossis have a beveled edge that goes in to aid aligning it thru the lever and bolt holes; the flush, square cut end is the end you drive it in from.
3. Is your firing pin in correctly, the rear must match the back contour of the bolt, it has to have the flat, center section verticle to allow the lever ears up along either side of it.
4. Lever needs to be all the way up inside the bolt for it to keep the firing pin aligned and the slot in it open.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. As far as I can tell, yes. A peek throught the hole for the retainer pin when everything is togather shows no blockage that I can see, looks like the pin should go right in, no joy however.

[jnyork]

In today's chapter of the continuing saga I got to looking at the pin. The bevel on the beveled end was not cut very well at all, it had a sharp shoulder at the bottom of the bevel. I took some emery paper backed up by a popsicle stick, put the pin in the vise and polished on it for a couple minutes, smoothing and rounding off the shoulder and making the whole bevel slick as a whisle. First attempt, it popped right in with no hassle whatsoever, took a punch and tapped it the rest of the way in, Eureka!! says I, my trials and tribulations are over. Alas, it was not to be. With the pin in, the action is absolutely locked up, the lever has a little play but the bolt wont budge. Thinking it must be the pin is in too far, I spent about 20 minutes experimenting with the depth, but to no avail. I remain stumped.

[J Miller]

jnyork,

Just a comment cos I don't have your rifle in my hands, but I think your trying too hard. Those rifles are not that complicated. The factory put it together and you can put it back together.

I had a Rossi that was a piece of pelosi, a real lemon that I sold to NKJ as a parts gun. But I learned to take it apart and put it back together even so.

Back up, take a deep breath, go do something else, then study it and how all the parts fit together before you work on it again.

A tip on the finger lever pin. Don't tap it all the way in. Get it most of the way, then use the screw to push it in most of the way. After that carefully tap, and I mean tap it in just below the surface of the side of the receiver.

Take care, you'll get it done.

Joe

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

In today's chapter of the continuing saga I got to looking at the pin. The bevel on the beveled end was not cut very well at all, it had a sharp shoulder at the bottom of the bevel. I took some emery paper backed up by a popsicle stick, put the pin in the vise and polished on it for a couple minutes, smoothing and rounding off the shoulder and making the whole bevel slick as a whisle. First attempt, it popped right in with no hassle whatsoever, took a punch and tapped it the rest of the way in, Eureka!! says I, my trials and tribulations are over. Alas, it was not to be. With the pin in, the action is absolutely locked up, the lever has a little play but the bolt wont budge. Thinking it must be the pin is in too far, I spent about 20 minutes experimenting with the depth, but to no avail. I remain stumped.

Try this. With the bolt out of the gun install the lever and pin it making sure the pin is flush with the bolt on both sides. Now, slide it into the reciever all the way. Now, from the outside measure the depth to the pin. Take the bolt back out, re-assem the ejector and re-install it and the lever. Re-install the lever to bolt pin measuring it as you go so that it measures flush again. If the action still refuses to open now, then you may need to use a dead blow hammer on the lever to get it moving. Just go easy so as not to bend the lever. Once you get it to move whack the bolt on the side to help center the pin.

[jnyork]

Ok, finally (!!!!) got it togather and all is well. The whole problem was in the bolt retainer pin. It had that burr on the side of it I told you about earlier, which I took care of. Then, the bevel was crude and burred, I took care of that and got quite a bit of improvement. Still, I couldn't get the dang pin to go all the way in. Figured I would go back and go over everything again, maybe the light would dawn.

Starting with the bolt out of the gun, I made sure the pin would go in, which it did easily, right up to the base of the knurl on the end of the pin. Well, give it a little tap, says I. No go. Finally laid the bolt down on the padded bench, took a punch of the correct diameter and a hammer and smacked it a good one. Went half way. Smacked it again, all the way in this time. Aha, says I.

Put the bolt assembly in, put the lever/locking blocks in, laid the gun on its right side on the bench. Slipped the pin in as far as it would go, smacked a couple of good ones with the punch and hammer, went in all the way. Picked up the gun and tried it, VOILA, everything works perfectly.

My problem was my reluctance to hit the dang pin hard enough to seat the knurled portion into the hole in the bolt. In Steves video, he just gives it a couple little taps and its in. I had to hit it quite a bit harder than Steve does in his video, with a bigger hammer, and I can assure you no amount of smacking the side of the receiver is going to move it, I dont know how you do that, Steve, the knurl holds it TIGHTLY in place.

I have always been leery of trying to force anything mechanical, things should go togather easily or there is something wrong. In this case, however, "If it wont go, get a bigger hammer" proved quite literally the cure for the problem.

Cant wait to get to the range and try out my 2 pound trigger.

PS, Joe, no way that little screw was going to seat that pin, WAY too tough for that.

More PS, thanks everyone for all your helpful suggestions, I appreciate it.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Ok, finally (!!!!) got it togather and all is well. The whole problem was in the bolt retainer pin. It had that burr on the side of it I told you about earlier, which I took care of. Then, the bevel was crude and burred, I took care of that and got quite a bit of improvement. Still, I couldn't get the dang pin to go all the way in. Figured I would go back and go over everything again, maybe the light would dawn.

Starting with the bolt out of the gun, I made sure the pin would go in, which it did easily, right up to the base of the knurl on the end of the pin. Well, give it a little tap, says I. No go. Finally laid the bolt down on the padded bench, took a punch of the correct diameter and a hammer and smacked it a good one. Went half way. Smacked it again, all the way in this time. Aha, says I.

Put the bolt assembly in, put the lever/locking blocks in, laid the gun on its right side on the bench. Slipped the pin in as far as it would go, smacked a couple of good ones with the punch and hammer, went in all the way. Picked up the gun and tried it, VOILA, everything works perfectly.

My problem was my reluctance to hit the dang pin hard enough to seat the knurled portion into the hole in the bolt. In Steves video, he just gives it a couple little taps and its in. I had to hit it quite a bit harder than Steve does in his video, with a bigger hammer, and I can assure you no amount of smacking the side of the receiver is going to move it, I dont know how you do that, Steve, the knurl holds it TIGHTLY in place.

I have always been leery of trying to force anything mechanical, things should go togather easily or there is something wrong. In this case, however, "If it wont go, get a bigger hammer" proved quite literally the cure for the problem.

Cant wait to get to the range and try out my 2 pound trigger.

PS, Joe, no way that little screw was going to seat that pin, WAY too tough for that.

More PS, thanks everyone for all your helpful suggestions, I appreciate it.

Ok, I get it now. The pin wasn't in enough to move the bolt back at all. What i was taliking about was a pin that was driven in so far that it was dragging on the other side. You partiallyopen the bolt and wack the bolt on the side to center the pin. Wack the bolt not the reciever.

[pwl44m]

OK J, will Ya buy another Winny now that You know how To do it? You had Me scared,Iv'e been wanting to take one of My 92s apart.
Perry

[jnyork]

OK J, will Ya buy another Winny now that You know how To do it? You had Me scared,Iv'e been wanting to take one of My 92s apart.
Perry

Probably will stick with my Marlins, Perry. Get the Stevesgunz DVD, you likely wont have any problem. My only problem really was with the dang bolt retainer pin.

From reading all these posts and from watching Steves DVD maybe 50 times, I have concluded that my rifle must be a little different in that the pin is knurled on one end, making it harder to install than than other pins. I get the impression that other pins belonging to other's guns must be smooth, thus the misunderstanding on my part and all the comfusion.

[J Miller]

jnyork

My Rossi also had that knurled pin. I believe it's a design feature common to the breed.

The thing is you don't have to take them apart more than once in a blue moon. So when you get it back together, as long as you don't break it your good till the next blue moon.

Joe

[jnyork]

jnyork

My Rossi also had that knurled pin. I believe it's a design feature common to the breed.

The thing is you don't have to take them apart more than once in a blue moon. So when you get it back together, as long as you don't break it your good till the next blue moon.

Joe

The moon will have to be VERY VERY blue, Joe.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I will say, some come part and go back together easier than others. Some can be difficult. I have had guns here that the hole in the receiver there on the left side where the lever to bolt pin comes out did not line up with the hole in the bolt. It would be just slightly off enough so that the pin was in a bind coming out and the same going back in.
It is true the marlin is easier to come apart. But, that is also one of the reasons the 92 is a stronger design. With the Marlin the bottom will come off allowing access. The 92 is one solid chunk of metal. Work it is much like building the model ship in the bottle. You have to work everything from the top.
BTW, Almost all of the Rossi pins are knurled

[jnyork]

I . The 92 is one solid chunk of metal. Work it is much like building the model ship in the bottle. You have to work everything from the top.

Very apt description!!