444 heavy bullets

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:22 pm

Has anyone used the 310 FN GC bullet by Oregon Trail in their 444's? I have a 444XLR and was looking at finding a cast bullet for it, but was wondering about feeding problems with some of them. These seem to be a fair amount cheaper than most of the GC bullets I can find.
I'm so sure of drawing my Wyoming moose tag

that I'm gonna go ahead and work up some loads for it. Might try some 300 jacketed bullets as well, so lets have some input on them while we're at it.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:31 pm

I had good accuracy with both 312 gr cast bullets and 300 gr jacketed in the Marlin 444 I had using H322. I loaded them to about 1750 fps. Mine with the 1 in 38" twist would not stabilize 362s that we tried. The 312s were not the Oregon Trail bullets however.

444Hal · Post by **444Hal** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:35 pm

Let me know how you make out with those. I've used Beartooth 290's with good groups out to 100yds with my XLR. Got some BT 330's, haven't tried yet.

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:16 pm

I like the BTB 330s the best in my T4 with a 22" barrel.

444Hal · Post by **444Hal** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:55 pm

rimrock wrote:I like the BTB 330s the best in my T4 with a 22" barrel.

I set up my XLR with a scope for a long reach. So I didn't really want to go heavy and loose the distance. So I'm thinking about one of those 444's in a guide gun size. Should be heavy enough for around here. Figure I'll use the heaver 330's for that.

Jeff Pitts · Post by **Jeff Pitts** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:10 am

Old Savage wrote: Mine with the 1 in 38" twist would not stabilize 362s that we tried.

I ran into the same problem. Even at 1850 I was getting very visible yaw at 100 yards. Once I got them moving at 2100fps I had no visible yaw at even 250 yards. But man, were they whompers on BOTH ends

Jeff

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:38 am

Yeah, it gets pretty punchy if you push the heavy ones too fast.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:54 am

I finally got my .444 (.432) Bear Tooth 290gr LFNGC bullets and they cycle in both my .444 Marlins just fine. One of the guys on another forum turned me onto this bullet and so far I have used his recommended loading of 45gr of Hodgdon H-4198.

The Hornady 300gr XTP jacketed bullet is a good bullet and the Swift 280gr and Swift 300gr A-Frame jacketed bullets are good too.

The Hornady "Light Magnum" factory load with their 265gr FN jacketed bullet is a great load and should be plenty for moose.

One of my favorite handloads for the .444 Marlin is the Hornady 265gr (.430) FN jacketed bullet loaded with 54gr of Hodgdon H-322.

Hornady's 265gr (.430) bullet was designed as a rifle bullet specifically for the .444 Marlin.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:53 pm

IMO, 300 and above should be a true .45 and 300 and below is where the .44 really shines...... Not to say they won't work, but you're not using them as orginally intended..... (flame away, Boys)

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:50 pm

Most of my concern was with penetration with this caliber. My next concern is function as far as the WFN and LFN designs like LBT, feeding in this XLR.
Sounds like I might try some Bear Tooth bullets. Maybe the 290 GC. I looked these up and they aren't that spendy and look good. I might have to try some heavier for the hell of it.
Trajectory isn't that big a deal with moose. Most generally I can sneak up on them. Even with the LE and Light Mag loads it's not really all that flat shooting.
I'm sure I can get by on my handloaded 265's just fine, but part of the fun is the tinkering around. Never know, you might stumble onto something real good. Plus it's just fun to shoot.

1886 · Post by **1886** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:41 am

The Beartooth Bullets 355gr G.C. sized .433" shot very accurately out of a 1975 444S I was owned. A forum member now has that rifle. It was a beauty. 1886.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:06 am

Well Blaine - huh! I think I agree - I like the 300s in the 444 but having both that is where I would divide it.

444Hal · Post by **444Hal** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:34 pm

I believe there was a "Teck Notes" article on Beartooth Bullets where they found that the 290 BT actually out penetrated their 330 bullet.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:42 pm

Would a .444 with a different rate of twist shoot the heavier bullets better?

1886 · Post by **1886** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:23 pm

Theoretically a 1-18" or maybe a 1-20" would be optimum but many have achieved great results with the 1-38" twist Marlin had used in the earlier micro groove barrels. 1886.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:55 pm

My 444 is one of the newer ones with the 20" twist. Getting ready to run a bunch of Ranch Dog bullets down range soon.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:23 am

Nope I ain't gonna do it. I've already decided on the .45-70 and I'm stickin to it. Dang it that makes it hard though.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:06 am

Modoc Ed, have you every chrono'd the 290 gr LFNGC's w/45gr of H4198? Seems mighty stout, any leading problems even with the GC's? With the GC I would think that .430 is plenty big, both my Timber Carbine and my Black Shadow slug at .4295. 432's sound awful big at that velocity

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:46 pm

Old Time Hunter wrote:Modoc Ed, have you every chrono'd the 290 gr LFNGC's w/45gr of H4198? Seems mighty stout, any leading problems even with the GC's? With the GC I would think that .430 is plenty big, both my Timber Carbine and my Black Shadow slug at .4295. 432's sound awful big at that velocity

No, I have not chrono'd them yet. I have experienced no leading.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:23 am

Old Time Hunter wrote:Modoc Ed, have you every chrono'd the 290 gr LFNGC's w/45gr of H4198? Seems mighty stout, any leading problems even with the GC's? With the GC I would think that .430 is plenty big, both my Timber Carbine and my Black Shadow slug at .4295. 432's sound awful big at that velocity

Ok, yesterday afternoon I went out to the range and used the range chrono to chrono the 290gr (.432) Beartooth LFNGC bullet w/45gr of H-4198 using Remington brass and Winchester LRP handloads.

I chron'd five rounds of the above handloads with the following results. Rd 1) 2180 fps; Rd 2) 2179 fps; Rd 3 2180 fps; Rd 4 2178 fps; and Rd 5 2179 fps for an average of 2179 fps.

I had figured that that handload was giving me right at 2000 fps with pershaps a hair over that and the chrono session confirmed it.

It is an accurate round and gives me 1&1/2" groups regularly with open iron sights @100yds. I'm positive that I could tighten those groups up considerably if I used an aperature sight and even tighter with a scope.

When I got home, I cleaned the barrel and there was no sign of leading.

The rifle I used was my Marlin .444S w/1:38 twist Microgroove 22" barrel.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:10 pm

Hey, that makes for one stout combination. Enough for anything on this earth. Based on your velocity you have about #3060 ft.lbs of energy at the muzzle and #2152 ft.lbs at 100 yards, carried out to 200 yards you still have almost #1500 ft.lbs....enough to take down an elephant.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:12 pm

Ed

That's a seriously good load. Thanks for the data, I saved it for my son's 444.

I think that's the sweet spot for that gun. If a guy needs a heavier bullet, then it's time to use the 45/70

444Hal · Post by **444Hal** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:16 pm

I think were finding out that the 444 Marlins can handle a little more than they thought. I've found that my XLR likes Rem. 240's with 47.5 of IMR 4198 or 250 Beartooth's @ 46.0. I'm hearing they're running around 2200 to 2300fps. Little tight getting those bullets seated though. What was suggested for the BT's is seating them so you can feel them jam into the rifling a little. Which isn't hard to do with that top load.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:02 pm

Using my formula of 47.0 grains of H4198 behind Speer 240gr JSP's (.429) a 20 cartridge average chrono'd (set at 15') 2350fps, which equates to:

1. 2943# ft.lbs@ muzzle,
2. 1836# ft.lbs@ 100 yards
3. and still truck'n along at 200yards@ 1450fps it still generates over 1100# ft.lbs.

Same load with the Beartooth 250 gr LRN (.430) chrono'd @ 15':

1. 3066# Ft.lbs @ Muzzle (2348 fps ave.)
2. 2066# Ft.lbs @ 100 yards
3. 1367# Ft.lbs @ 200 yards, still mov'n at 1567fps.

I'd say the .444's sweet spot is some where over 250gr bullets and under 350gr (would be hard to stabilize in a 1-38 though). Still for Whitetail hunting...the 240gr JSP is plenty:

This was recovered from this deer:

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:57 am

To give credit where credit is due, the load I chrono'd was worked up by "Dawei" over at marlinowners.com. He calls it his "Thumper Load".

The only difference between his load and mine is that he uses Hornady cases and Remington 9Â½ primers where I use Remington cases and WLR primers.
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To address "Old Time Hunter's" post, I've found that all "jacketed" bullets made today are sufficient to use with the .444 Marlin. By that I mean that in the past some claims were made of bullet fragmentation of say 240gr bullets meant for pistol/revolver rounds. BUT I have found that those bullets hold up very well and do not fragment like they used to because of the advances in metalurgy and the advancements made in bonding between copper jackets and lead cores, etc.. I use Speer Gold Dot 240gr SP bullets pushed by 48.2gr of H-4198 for my general, walk-around, plinking, game of opportunity, shooting and those Gold Dots hold up extremely well and expand/mushroom unifromly.

allhands · Post by **allhands** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:01 pm

Thanks for all the insight. I have owned a .444 for a long time and could never seem to find info on handloads with heavy bullets. The ones usually printed were heavily compressed or anemic. One comment on jacketed bullets... We had a nice piece of 1/4 inch boiler plate hanging on my range at 75 yards for a long time until I decided to try it with my 300 gr xtp (jacketed hollow point) moving at 1800 fps. The steel didn't "clang" at all. The bullet punched right through.

My only question on the 290 gr over 45 gr of 4198....any signs of overpressure?