An 1873 Finds It's Way To Me

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:36 pm

Well, I guess its time to do another "Hey, Look at me post!" as someone mentioned earlier. I don't look at it that way. Like Pitchy and many others, I try to keep things interesting here through the education of our fine hobby, passing on our knowledge, all the time hoping the younguns pick up on it so their kids are not sucked into Socialism and confiscation of their guns like my mother's father was in Germany in the 1930's.

Anyway, on to fun. Yesterday I'm at my buds shop when these yuppies come in with this 1873 they found in the attic of this old house they just bought in Chadds Ford, Pa, where the famous Battle of the Brandywine was fought. My bud passed it on to me to which I came home with.

In every respect, except the outside metal finish, this gun was new, manufactured in 1884, in my favorite caliber, 38-40. Not real bad like those other guns I got last year. Action worked fine, excellent wood. Perfect, proud wood to metal fit, bright shiney bore. Like new inside.

It has one of those rare Winchester 26B tang sights. The sight was folded down on the tang and when I flipped it up, the beautiful unrusted finish showed up.

There was not a screw turned on this gun since it was made. After taking off the buttplate, there was still sawdust in the cleaning rod hole........all crispy edges....pics will show.

I took it completely apart and did what I could to remove the rust. In the pics you will see a salt and pepper look. Thats dots of new original blue, mixed in with rust pits.

I got her all back together and pushed 25 rounds down the bore, probably the most this gun has ever seen......semi fast without really trying. This baby shoots!--------------Sixgun

Buttplate removed

Nice wood...rusty receiver

"Proud" wood to metal fit, Winchester 26B tang sight and plenty of case colors on the hammer...Some still on the lever, but not as much.

Another side

Nice blue mixed in with pits.

Overall, still a nice lookin' levergun

This is the first group fired...12 shots.....NO adjusting of sights.

(Lyman mould designed for the 40 S & W.)

Second group. 13 shots total. 11 were in 7/8" on an inch. Original 100 year old mould.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Someone found that in an attic and sold it?......

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:49 pm

That's beautiful!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:56 pm

All I can say is if I found such a treasure in my attic, I would keep it. But then I'm an old phart who appreciates such things and not one of these stupid yuppie types that only think of money.

Sixgun, are you gonna keep it, or are you cleaning it for the shop?

Joe

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:02 pm

I wish, I wish, I wish!!

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:07 pm

Congrats - funny thing - I was thinking of you getting a 73. Neat

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:38 pm

Very interested in that Tang sight. Never saw one like it. Got any more info on it?

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:57 pm

rbertalotto wrote:Very interested in that Tang sight. Never saw one like it. Got any more info on it?

Its a factory Winchester sight (pat. date of 1881) that was used in the early days before Lyman started in on the action, but was continued for many more years. The Lyman was a sturdier sight and sold better.--------Sixgun

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:59 pm

Old Savage wrote:Congrats - funny thing - I was thinking of you getting a 73. Neat

Thanks OS. (and guys) Hey! I got a deal for you. I have lots of this old iron....you wanna trade for some of that "soft stuff" you got?

-------------Me

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:05 pm

game keeper wrote:Someone found that in an attic and sold it?......

Gamekeeper,
Ha! This is America where most people only care about the $$$. I've seen many times where as soon as an individual inherited a goody from Mom or Dad.................up for sale! Most people in this area drive imported $50,000 cars by putting down a $1,000 and the rest borrowed and live in 5,000 sq. foot houses, (without furniture). Its all about "what others think". This is what this country has come to.-------Sixgun

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:18 pm

That is so unbelievable. How did you keep your "emotions" in check while talking to them. Glad your end of the world experience turn out so good

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:57 pm

I'm glad I don't live where you do, or I'd be ten times more broke than I am right now

That is a GREAT find....Congrats....(it ain't WooHoo look at me...we always show our buddies our new toys

)

BC in TN · Post by **BC in TN** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:30 pm

Awesome rifle Sixgun! That is a treasure now enjoyed by many on the forum because you took the time to show us. Most of us will never have such an opportunity but I appreciate you taking the time to share with us.

I've sure learned a lot here over the years. I'm a daily reader but generally a quiet sort; I'm not much of a poster.

I attribute some of my continually growing tolerance and acceptance of others to what I've learned here over the years.

I know some of those yuppies who drive $50k cars (and some of them are paid for the day they are purchased). I fully understand and appreciate that not everyone enjoys a firearm like most readers of the forum. If everyone understood the value of something like that and choose to keep what we consider heirlooms then much of those goods wouldn't get circulated like they do.

Heck, there are some of those well to do yuppies who are poking fun at the old timers (and their lack of knowledge) who perhaps sold thier mothers' skillet lid in a yard sale for a pittance, perhaps a lid like this one: http://www.wrinkledwillytreasures.com/G ... p_488.html

I appreciate the forum, the diversity and those from whom I learn so much.

BTW, I have a really nice Griswold skillet which belonged to my great aunt. I'll never use that skillet but I could use a nice vintage Heiser holster. If sold, the skillet would cover the holster & I'd be grinning. My kids don't have any attachment to the skillet nor that holster!
After I'm gone I believe I'll be okay with letting my heirs determine what they deem important. Perhaps someone will be overjoyed at a trinket I once owned and they'll appreciate it and use it accordingly. My treasures aren't here.

Sixgun, are you interested in some vintage cast iron on a trade for that nice rifle?

Happy Holidays Levergunners!

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:31 pm

Now that is really NICE, shoots well too

samb · Post by **samb** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:46 pm

What a wonderful find. Thanks for sharing.

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:53 pm

You sure as heck find some awesome guns in your part of the world
Thanks for for the pix & the story

ollogger

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:54 pm

I'm likely wrong... but that'd be a fabulous candidate to fully restore. I sure hate to see a genuine artifact languish on someone's wall.

What powder did you use? .38-40 surely musta had "original" powder in 'em, no?

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:26 pm

Well Six, on the soft stuff all I can do are provide the intros but

bring on the old iron. Tell me bro - what do I need to be outfitted - and on the 73, a total Turnbull restore sounds right.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:36 pm

Thanks guys! These old guns are so fascinating that every time I get one in my hands................A woody pops up.

No, no, and triple no..on the resto. Pics don't show it too well, but when you look at this gun close, you can see and feel the "newness". The pitting, while on about 80% of the gun, is shallow. Its one of those rare cases that the rust pits does not destroy the looks. No "fugly" big pits. Solid feel and while operating the gun, the craftsmanship is all there. No slop.

Besides, a full resto is $3500 to 5 g's. ouch!

Besides #2..........This 1891 produced 99% baby is hiding in the back of the safe...unshot.....I can shoot the rusty one!---------Sixgun

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:24 am

game keeper wrote:Someone found that in an attic and sold it?...... :shock: :shock: :shock:

boy you said it...stupid is as stupid does...NICE FIND SIXGUN... :)

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:44 am

really nice 73!

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:58 am

VERY nice piece!

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:18 am

Fantastic find and it shoots like a lazer too!

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:30 am

Sixgun,

Just......wow! You are so lucky to still be finding guns like that. Like you, I have a friend who has a shop. An old-timey gunsmith who put up with a high school kid learning all he could about old Winchesters. He held most all of em that came in for me but it's changed up here now. Can't remember the last one I bought. I live less than 20 miles from James Julia's. He is probably the highest grossing antique firearms auctioner in the country. Not many deals for a guy like me.
Just my opinion but it would be a huge mistake to restore your 73. It is perfect. Essentially new but not too good to use like your 99% one. You are a lucky man!

Old Win

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:48 am

Too Cool Sixgun. What a Great Christmas.

.

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:24 am

Very very nice. I just love the 73s.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:36 pm

Thanks very much.

Secret to finding such stuff? nothin'. location...location...location.. The Philly area is known as the best source for nice classsic guns in excellent condition (I've mentioned this before, many times) in the country. Its because its where money started. By the time the Industrial Revolution started in the 1880's, there was plenty of "old money" and the regular guy ate pretty well without having to hunt. So...............they bought guns for pleasure and the once a year hunt. The rest of the time these guns sat in closets.

(the real secret) If you live in the area and are "in the know", these guns come will come to you. Many people know I like the old stuff and the phone rings every now and then with an offer. I attend local estate auctions and gun auctions on a regular basis. My bud has signs and advertises "We buy guns".

My problem is that I can't sell anything. Its a disease. I punch a clock for a living so there ain't millions to spend as I'm always turning down stuff at great prices because "buying and selling" will get you in the "big house" for dealing without a license, along with demands from the IRS. So I just buy the "good stuff", shoot them, compete with them, and love them. Someday, my heirs are gonna have a blast.

My hobby goal in life, since I was a kid, was to experience all of the different antique guns in every aspect, as to make, model, and caliber. I experience these fine guns in hunting, silhouette shootng, target shooting, plinking, and like I said earlier, the love. My family comes first, then my dogs, then my guns, in that order. (I think

)------------Sixgun Thats my son and his daughter in my avatar and he runs along the same lines as the old man. Oh! I forgot---Jeeps are also an addiction in the family---can you tell?

Mac in Mo · Post by **Mac in Mo** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:01 pm

Very nice and interesting. Thanks for posting. By the way, isn't that the point? It's
not "look at me" it's "hey, look at this cool rifle, I wanted to share it with you" These
forums would be pretty boring and pointless without posts.

Kevin

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:23 pm

Sixgun, I really feel for you not being able to sell anything. I'm thinking that if you started with just flat-out giving away one or two of your finest guns, that you might be able to crack this horrible problem of not being able to sell anything. Think about this overnight and, in the morning, if you want to give it a go, give me a holler and I'll consent to being one of the recipients of your first give-aways. If I might make a suggestion, you would probably find it most therapeutic to give away your '86 SRC and maybe that 38 WCF '73.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:58 pm

KirkD wrote:Sixgun, I really feel for you not being able to sell anything. I'm thinking that if you started with just flat-out giving away one or two of your finest guns, that you might be able to crack this horrible problem of not being able to sell anything. Think about this overnight and, in the morning, if you want to give it a go, give me a holler and I'll consent to being one of the recipients of your first give-aways. If I might make a suggestion, you would probably find it most therapeutic to give away your '86 SRC and maybe that 38 WCF '73.

Very smooth Kirk

Sixgun, I just looked at them groups and my eyes did

that.

Wow.

Nath.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:02 pm

KirkD wrote:Sixgun, I really feel for you not being able to sell anything. I'm thinking that if you started with just flat-out giving away one or two of your finest guns, that you might be able to crack this horrible problem of not being able to sell anything. Think about this overnight and, in the morning, if you want to give it a go, give me a holler and I'll consent to being one of the recipients of your first give-aways. If I might make a suggestion, you would probably find it most therapeutic to give away your '86 SRC and maybe that 38 WCF '73.

Kirk,
OK, they are yours but........................you ain't gonna "cherry pick". In addition to those, you got to take some of those SA Colts to even the load a bit.

On a serious note, indulging in our hobby almost gives one a reason for living sometimes. When things get rough, I grab a dog or two, go downstairs and go to fondling......the guns of course.

You know, wishing you could know every place that gun was at, the previous owners, the game taken, where the tree grew that gave it's flesh to make the stock, the attic it sat in for 127 years,...................Sixgun

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:04 pm

Sixgun wrote:...indulging in our hobby almost gives one a reason for living sometimes. When things get rough, I grab a dog or two, go downstairs and go to fondling......the guns of course. You know, wishing you could know every place that gun was at, the previous owners, the game taken, where the tree grew that gave it's flesh to make the stock, the attic it sat in for 127 years,...................Sixgun

+1

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:59 pm

Sixgun wrote: Kirk,
OK, they are yours but........................you ain't gonna "cherry pick". In addition to those, you got to take some of those SA Colts to even the load a bit.

Take some Classic Colts SAA too! No way! Now yer askin' too much. I just can't do it!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:30 am

KirkD wrote:
Sixgun wrote: Kirk,
OK, they are yours but........................you ain't gonna "cherry pick". In addition to those, you got to take some of those SA Colts to even the load a bit.
Take some Classic Colts SAA too! No way! Now yer askin' too much. I just can't do it!

Ok, I'll step in, in his stead. See, at least I was gentlemanly enough to let 'im refuse first!

geobru · Post by **geobru** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:17 am

Sixgun,

You really do have a serious problem that you need to deal with. I think you have separation anxiety.

I am perfectly willing to enroll you in my recently established 12 step program. I'll even waive the fees!

All you have to do is send me a gun a month for 12 months. This will certainly help you overcome this weakness that has reared its ugly head.

I want you to know that I ONLY have your best interests in mind.

Very nice rifle!

Geobro

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:44 am

You lucky dog! Great find, and I couldn't think of a better caretaker for such a fine piece of history. Well, except me maybe.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:10 pm

On a serious note ..... I'd love to see a range report for that '73 38-40. With some soft cast bullets, it should do very well.

EDIT: Uh .... forget that. I just went back to drool over those photos some more and saw you already posted the results. Sometimes I think I'm loosing my mind. Of course, my four sisters insisted I had lost my mind even when I was a boy growing up so I'm getting used to it.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:07 pm

KirkD wrote: EDIT: Uh .... forget that. I just went back to drool over those photos some more and saw you already posted the results. Sometimes I think I'm loosing my mind. Of course, my four sisters insisted I had lost my mind even when I was a boy growing up so I'm getting used to it.

Kirk,
Your excused (on the mind losing thingy) I know how old you are...........twin brother!

I can't shoot the way I want to around the house so I can't wait to get this baby up to the gunclub and give her a real work out. The first time I loaded her up (with 8 rounds) the action was all sticky and I had to juggle it a bit to make it feed. After about 15 rounds that all went away. I'm serious, I don't think this gun was shot much, if at all. The bolt is still all blue except a few lines that I caused.

I've said this before, I sure wish some of us here could live closer. My shooting buds are cool guys but the real love of the old guns is absent from them. They will shoot them but I never did see any of them give them a good fondle.

-------------Sixgun

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:20 am

Sixgun wrote:My shooting buds are cool guys but the real love of the old guns is absent from them. They will shoot them but I never did see any of them give them a good fondle.

Yep. There is something about actually picking up an old gun and literally feeling history flow from the gun through your hands into your entire body and mind. I can almost see, hear, feel and smell the places they have been. I handle my guns so much I was afraid I'd wear off even more blue and finish, but I found the solution to that ...... Conservator's Wax. Now I can handle them all I want, and hunt with them, and shoot them, and when the wax gets worn off, I can enjoy applying another coat of wax ..... itself a labor of love.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:38 pm

I hear 'ya Kirk............a labor of love. I get all itchy/witchy (is that an emotion?) when handling old Colts too, especially ones with notches.

Speaking of notches, I have this one old '86 in 45-90 that has 232+ notches on it. I never could get the exact amount as I kept forgetting where I started. That and many notches were very thin and worn smooth. It even had holes on the receiver and additional dovetails on the barrel that made no sense for any kind of metallic sight. Obviously for some kind of an antique scope. Now, if that baby could talk.

---------Sixgun

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:51 pm

I had an original Schofield once that had four notches carved into the bottom of one of the grips. The dark, almost black patina inside the notches matched the rest of the dark, almost black wooden grips. The barrel was still the original 7 & 1/2". Quite a feeling to draw that out of the holster, feel it in your hand, and fire it.

Grizzly Adams · Post by **Grizzly Adams** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:25 am

Nice find! That sight is almost worth more than the rifle......

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:17 pm

Lovely rifle, Jack! And great shooting as well. Now, you see, finds like this are why I miss Pennsylvania! And it's not just the Philly area. Two of my treasures came from sleepy little Fulton County in south-central Pa.

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:32 pm

There is something about actually picking up an old gun and literally feeling history flow from the gun through your hands into your entire body and mind. I can almost see, hear, feel and smell the places they have been.

Now if that don't just sum it up!

I started buying Lever Action rifles a couple years ago. I only had one over the past 40 years. And it was the first rifle I ever bought new. Actually my Girlfriend bought it for me (now my wife). 1972 it was bought at the local department store, Marlin 336 for $79.00!

I got involved in Cowboy Action Shooting two years ago. Bought a few reproduction Marlin 94, Winchester 73 etc. Love the repros, but I started lusting after the real thing. Bought a clapped out 1873 that was made in 1884. Taught myself how to reline the bore and got it back into perfect working order. (you can read all about it here www.rvbprecision.com ). Since then I've bought a Marlin 1889 and a 1893. I love competing with these old guns. Way more fun that using the much faster new rifles.

But just handling them is a hoot! But you need to be real careful when buying these antiques for big money. Lots can happen to a rifle that is 130 years old. It could have been refinished 100 years ago, and to you and me it will look like a very well cared for rifle. But an expert will call it out as a refurbish and this will destroy the value. Barrels get replaced for damage or simply because the owner wanted a different caliber. The Cody museum can tell you what configuration it was shipped in by the serial number. And changes to it's configuration, not documented by the Cody museum will have a detrimental effect on its value.

I've passed on a number of rifles that were "just too nice to be true". I had an offer on an 1892 Take Down that was in beautiful shape. I had it evaluated by a knowledgeable collector and he called it out immediately as a refurbish..........To good to be true! The owner was asking $3000. It was worth less than $1500 because it was re-done.....UGH!

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:46 pm

Cool, happy it shoots!

I wanted, wanted , wanted a '73! Then I finally got one. No finish, decent bore , 32WCF ( my favorite). Wouldn't shoot for S----! No matter what I tried. I was so happy to unload it. I'll stick to my '92s.

jb

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:20 pm

All i can do is show ya how excited i am about that rifle Sixgun.
A gun like that and a shooter like you need a little good music.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:16 am

rbertalotto wrote:
There is something about actually picking up an old gun and literally feeling history flow from the gun through your hands into your entire body and mind. I can almost see, hear, feel and smell the places they have been.
Now if that don't just sum it up!

I started buying Lever Action rifles a couple years ago. I only had one over the past 40 years. And it was the first rifle I ever bought new. Actually my Girlfriend bought it for me (now my wife). 1972 it was bought at the local department store, Marlin 336 for $79.00!

I got involved in Cowboy Action Shooting two years ago. Bought a few reproduction Marlin 94, Winchester 73 etc. Love the repros, but I started lusting after the real thing. Bought a clapped out 1873 that was made in 1884. Taught myself how to reline the bore and got it back into perfect working order. (you can read all about it here http://www.rvbprecision.com ). Since then I've bought a Marlin 1889 and a 1893. I love competing with these old guns. Way more fun that using the much faster new rifles.

But just handling them is a hoot! But you need to be real careful when buying these antiques for big money. Lots can happen to a rifle that is 130 years old. It could have been refinished 100 years ago, and to you and me it will look like a very well cared for rifle. But an expert will call it out as a refurbish and this will destroy the value. Barrels get replaced for damage or simply because the owner wanted a different caliber. The Cody museum can tell you what configuration it was shipped in by the serial number. And changes to it's configuration, not documented by the Cody museum will have a detrimental effect on its value.

I've passed on a number of rifles that were "just too nice to be true". I had an offer on an 1892 Take Down that was in beautiful shape. I had it evaluated by a knowledgeable collector and he called it out immediately as a refurbish..........To good to be true! The owner was asking $3000. It was worth less than $1500 because it was re-done.....UGH!

Exactly why, I buy something like a Turnbull 86 or 92. It looks beautiful, but you do not have the worry on if it was refinished 100 years ago and you can't tell. Also, buying a new gun means you get the updated steel and new rifling. You don't have to worry if it is still in shooting condition. Lastly, due to inflation, you can generally shoot them and get your money back after several years --- not that I have sold any of mine.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:06 am

Pitch,
It don't get no better then that! Thats the finest music I have ever heard. You really started the day off for me and my buds here in the warehouse just fine. Thanks!

---------------Sixgun