The Ugliest Levergun?
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- Ji in Hawaii
- Senior Levergunner
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- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:05 pm
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The Ugliest Levergun?
Possibly the ugliest levergun EVER! Or is it the ugliest revolver ever? Don't ever let your levergun mate with a revolver!
Illegitimus Non Carborundum
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Close second: http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifles- ... -spx/41026
Kind regards,
Tycer
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- sore shoulder
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
At least the Mossy has a utilitarian practicality. I see the lever on that revolver as complicating things, where a DA/SA would be a better choice.
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
The Mossburg has so many scary things on it, ya wouldn't even have to pull the trigger....
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
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Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
this thread is starting to look like those ugly fat women videos.
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
+1sore shoulder wrote:At least the Mossy has a utilitarian practicality. I see the lever on that revolver as complicating things, where a DA/SA would be a better choice.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
- AJMD429
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
I've been told that my Ruger 96 leverguns are so 'ugly' and 'non-traditional' that they are just no better than scrap-metal.
I guess I disagree...
My .22 WMR Ruger 96 here compared to the Ruger 77/22 bolt action:
They also make a .22 LR version, a .17 HMR version, and a .17 Mach2 version, in addition to the .22 Mag version - AND they make a .44 Mag version which is still my favorite deer-gun. I wish they'd made them in .45 Colt, .480 Ruger, and .357 Magnum, much less some of the hyphenated ones like .32-20 or .44-40 or .38-40...
Sure, they're "non-traditional" but they are nicer looking than the 'classic' ones everyone seems to drool over, like the Marlin 62 or Winchester 88's...
I guess I disagree...
My .22 WMR Ruger 96 here compared to the Ruger 77/22 bolt action:
They also make a .22 LR version, a .17 HMR version, and a .17 Mach2 version, in addition to the .22 Mag version - AND they make a .44 Mag version which is still my favorite deer-gun. I wish they'd made them in .45 Colt, .480 Ruger, and .357 Magnum, much less some of the hyphenated ones like .32-20 or .44-40 or .38-40...
Sure, they're "non-traditional" but they are nicer looking than the 'classic' ones everyone seems to drool over, like the Marlin 62 or Winchester 88's...
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
- sore shoulder
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Just noticed who the maker was. It seems Taurus will throw anything against the wall to see if it sticks.
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
made in brazil by tuarus......yuk...they need to stop...
and stick with the tried and true stuff....OMG
and stick with the tried and true stuff....OMG
LETS GO SHOOT'N BOYS
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
doc them 96s are ugly but they are dang good guns id take one over a mossy any day.
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
I don't mind the Rugers at all. Look very Savagey. Don't mind an 88 either, but the carbines look best.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
- Griff
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Nope, it's still a second place finisher.Friends Call Me Ji wrote:Possibly the ugliest levergun EVER! Or is it the ugliest revolver ever? Don't ever let your levergun mate with a revolver!
The Mossberg has NO redeeming reatures, IMO.
Griff,
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There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Hey, be nice guys, we have both an 88 Win, and a 96 Ruger in this house. Both are fine rifles IMO. I think my wife wants to be buried with her 96 Ruger. Can't get her to carry anything else on a deer hunt.
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
[/quote]Griff wrote: The Mossberg has NO redeeming reatures, IMO.
Now, Griff....it does have lever!
Actually, of the two, I would go with the Mossberg! Did you read Tex's editorial in this month's CC. This thing is legal for SASS long range!
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Vet!
COMNAVFORV, Vietnam 68-70
NRA Life, SASS Life, Banjo picking done cheap!
Quyana cekneq, Neva
COMNAVFORV, Vietnam 68-70
NRA Life, SASS Life, Banjo picking done cheap!
Quyana cekneq, Neva
- Ji in Hawaii
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:05 pm
- Location: Moku Manu, Hawai'i
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Are you kidding? It would make an awesome prop for a Star Trek movie. If Borgs used leverguns it would be the Mossberg!Griff wrote:
The Mossberg has NO redeeming reatures, IMO.
Resistance is Futile
Illegitimus Non Carborundum
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
- AJMD429
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Actually, I'd like one of those forends for a 'Night Scout' levergun; I'd get my hacksaw and grinder and take off the 'side' and half the 'bottom' rails, though. Just need enough for a snap-on light now and then...
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
- Sixgun
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
The guy who designed that ought to be taken out back and given the contents of his invention. ------------6
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
I seem to recall that it was designed with one of the Euro or Commonwealth countries in mind due to some stupid azz regulation of some sort. Please someone tell me that's what it's all about. PLEASE...
Cheers,
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
I'm thinking Firefly would be a natural since Zoe used a Mare's Leg.Friends Call Me Ji wrote:Are you kidding? It would make an awesome prop for a Star Trek movie. If Borgs used leverguns it would be the Mossberg!Griff wrote:
The Mossberg has NO redeeming reatures, IMO.
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
- dracothered
- Levergunner 1.0
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
It looks like something that would be used in a campy SiFi movie or out of Star Wars...AJMD429 wrote:
Actually, I'd like one of those forends for a 'Night Scout' levergun; I'd get my hacksaw and grinder and take off the 'side' and half the 'bottom' rails, though. Just need enough for a snap-on light now and then...
- sore shoulder
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Zoe was more traditional in her taste, Jayne OTOH would have rocked that as a backup to Vera.awp101 wrote:I'm thinking Firefly would be a natural since Zoe used a Mare's Leg.Friends Call Me Ji wrote:Are you kidding? It would make an awesome prop for a Star Trek movie. If Borgs used leverguns it would be the Mossberg!Griff wrote:
The Mossberg has NO redeeming reatures, IMO.
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776
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- Ji in Hawaii
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:05 pm
- Location: Moku Manu, Hawai'i
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Yes, it's main target market was European countries which don't allow semi-auto rifles which the regular double action Circuit Judge would qualify as due it firing a round with each trigger pull. I know that's the same reason they came out with a lever action AR-15 as well.olyinaz wrote:I seem to recall that it was designed with one of the Euro or Commonwealth countries in mind due to some stupid azz regulation of some sort. Please someone tell me that's what it's all about. PLEASE...
Regular Circuit Judge
Lever Action AR-15 the lever being the 1911 Colt looking grip
Illegitimus Non Carborundum
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Now THAT is friggen stupid.Friends Call Me Ji wrote:Yes, it's main target market was European countries which don't allow semi-auto rifles...I know that's the same reason they came out with a lever action AR-15 as well.olyinaz wrote:I seem to recall that it was designed with one of the Euro or Commonwealth countries in mind due to some stupid azz regulation of some sort. Please someone tell me that's what it's all about. PLEASE...
Lever Action AR-15 the lever being the 1911 Colt looking grip:
Cheers,
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
-
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
OK, I can see that!sore shoulder wrote:Zoe was more traditional in her taste, Jayne OTOH would have rocked that as a backup to Vera.awp101 wrote: I'm thinking Firefly would be a natural since Zoe used a Mare's Leg.
That lever AR looks like it has a 7.62x25 mag. Interesting...
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
yikes... :Obulldog1935 wrote:this thread is starting to look like those ugly fat women videos.
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
You're trying to get sent to your room, aren't you?30wcf wrote:yikes... :Obulldog1935 wrote:this thread is starting to look like those ugly fat women videos.
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
- Ji in Hawaii
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:05 pm
- Location: Moku Manu, Hawai'i
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Actually it's chamber for the 30 Carbine. I beleive current military rounds are also not allowed.awp101 wrote:
That lever AR looks like it has a 7.62x25 mag. Interesting...
Illegitimus Non Carborundum
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
- sore shoulder
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Friends Call Me Ji wrote:
Lever Action AR-15 the lever being the 1911 Colt looking grip
My first thought was "abomination".
My second thought was pity for the poor folks to whom that was the only option and then gratitude that they even have that available.
Now as I type I'm thinking that's exactly what they are trying to do to us.
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Guess I've been out of the loop in terms of whats out there in guns nowadays. I actually laughed when I saw the photo of the Mossberg. I thought someone Photoshopped a spoof 'photo'. I was shocked to see that they actually make the thing
As for the lever 'revolver' rifle, nothing surprises me about what comes out of Taurus.
As for half normal rifles - - - one thing that really turned me off about an otherwise good rifle is the wacky looking 'safety lock' on Rossi leverguns. Glad I came to the forum and found that Kiowa Jones offers a fix for that. I disliked that lock enough to steer clear of Rossi rifles before, but not now !
As for the lever 'revolver' rifle, nothing surprises me about what comes out of Taurus.
As for half normal rifles - - - one thing that really turned me off about an otherwise good rifle is the wacky looking 'safety lock' on Rossi leverguns. Glad I came to the forum and found that Kiowa Jones offers a fix for that. I disliked that lock enough to steer clear of Rossi rifles before, but not now !
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
.30 WCF,
Please don't do that anymore,
we finally got Blaine calmed down,
that was some scary stuff!!!!!!!!
Please don't do that anymore,
we finally got Blaine calmed down,
that was some scary stuff!!!!!!!!
- sore shoulder
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Me too, but realizing there was an outside chance it was real, I went to Mossy's home page, and there it was.Pointshoot wrote: I actually laughed when I saw the photo of the Mossberg. I thought someone Photoshopped a spoof 'photo'.
The only things I don't like about it is no place to mount a scope and top eject.
Still waiting for it to show up in a sci fi movie.
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776
11B30
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- dracothered
- Levergunner 1.0
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
You can mount a scope on it, they are called scout scopes...sore shoulder wrote:Me too, but realizing there was an outside chance it was real, I went to Mossy's home page, and there it was.Pointshoot wrote: I actually laughed when I saw the photo of the Mossberg. I thought someone Photoshopped a spoof 'photo'.
The only things I don't like about it is no place to mount a scope and top eject.
Still waiting for it to show up in a sci fi movie.
- Ji in Hawaii
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:05 pm
- Location: Moku Manu, Hawai'i
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
They are angle eject, and the bridge across rear of receiver is drilled and tapped for a scope so yes they can be scoped.sore shoulder wrote: The only things I don't like about it is no place to mount a scope and top eject.
Illegitimus Non Carborundum
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
- sore shoulder
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
As if the rest of the gun wasn't ugly enough, that base looks like a boat dock cleat. However I'm picturing the rifle with colored rail covers and butt stock and painted in some sort of camo
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776
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- Sixgun
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Friends Call Me Ji wrote: Lever Action AR-15 the lever being the 1911 Colt looking grip
I think this is an EXCELLENT invention and I truly hope this retarded looking gun gets lots of press. Why? Because it will awaken up the gun populace of this country of what we are in for if the subhuman in the White House gets acceptness to his agendas--------------------Sixgun
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Love the Firefly/Serenity references!sore shoulder wrote:Zoe was more traditional in her taste, Jayne OTOH would have rocked that as a backup to Vera.awp101 wrote:I'm thinking Firefly would be a natural since Zoe used a Mare's Leg.Friends Call Me Ji wrote:Are you kidding? It would make an awesome prop for a Star Trek movie. If Borgs used leverguns it would be the Mossberg!Griff wrote:
The Mossberg has NO redeeming reatures, IMO.
The Mossey is definitely not my taste. I don't mind modernized and spoertized rifles when they are done well; even when I don't care for a particular look I always appreciate fine workmanship. Unfortunately, I don't see either in that rifle. All that said, if someone likes it well enough to spend good money on it... Good for them!
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
sore shoulder wrote: Zoe was more traditional in her taste, Jayne OTOH would have rocked that as a backup to Vera.
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
- sore shoulder
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2611
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:51 pm
- Location: 9000ft in the Rockies
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
BTW Vera is a 12ga Saiga semi auto in real life. Its worth a darn sight more'n what you've got. Best darn gun made by man. That's paraphrasing Jayne trying to trade it to Mal for his "wife".
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776
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- sore shoulder
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
I'm beginning to think you don't take me seriously.awp101 wrote:
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Sure woulda been nice if someone had brought some grenades!sore shoulder wrote: I'm beginning to think you don't take me seriously.
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
- sore shoulder
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2611
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:51 pm
- Location: 9000ft in the Rockies
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
"Don't know em, don't care to."awp101 wrote:Sure woulda been nice if someone had brought some grenades!sore shoulder wrote: I'm beginning to think you don't take me seriously.
"Jayne, they're whores."
"I'm in."
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776
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Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
What are you guys talking about?
- sore shoulder
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2611
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:51 pm
- Location: 9000ft in the Rockies
Re: The Ugliest Levergun?
Only the best Sci Fi series ever. Plot is cowboy/smuggler/pirates in space.Mescalero wrote:What are you guys talking about?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_(TV_series)
Two of the main characters.
Nathan Fillion as Malcolm "Mal" Reynolds—the owner of Serenity and former Independent sergeant in the pivotal Battle of Serenity Valley. Malcolm grew up on a ranch, and was raised by his mother and the ranch hands. In the Unification War, he fought for the Independent Army, the "Browncoats", as a platoon sergeant in the 57th Overlanders. He is cunning, a capable leader and a skilled fighter. Mal's main character drive is his will for independence. While he is not above petty theft, smuggling or even killing to maintain his free lifestyle, he is generally honest in his dealings with others, fiercely loyal to his crew and closely follows a personal moral code.
Adam Baldwin as Jayne Cobb—hired gun. He and Mal met on opposite sides of a rivalry; Mal, while held at gunpoint, offered Jayne his own bunk and a higher cut than his current employer, so he turned coat and shot his then-partners. In the original Pilot "Serenity" he intimates to Mal that he didn't betray him because "The money wasn't good enough," however previously he had pointedly asked the Alliance agent whether he would be required to turn on the captain to help him, and in "Ariel" defends his actions alerting the authorities regarding Simon and River by claiming he had not intended to betray Mal. He is someone who can be depended on in a fight.[17] He tends to act like a "lummox" who thinks he is the smartest person in space, but occasional hints of intelligence peek through this façade, giving the impression that he acts dumber than he is.[10] As Whedon states several times, Jayne is the man who will ask the questions that no one else wants to.[18] Even though he is a macho character, he has shown a particularly intense fear of Reavers, more so than the rest of the crew. Despite his amoral mercenary persona, he sends a significant portion of his income to his mother, again suggesting that there is more to his character than what he presents to the rest of the crew.
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Declaration of Independance, July 4, 1776
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