14ga shotgun question

[awp101]

Every so often I see the Greener 14ga shotguns built on Martini frames come up for sale. I know some were a plain 14ga and some used a special round with a ring around the primer and a modified firing pin for use by native troops and guards.

The firing pin mod is "easy" to undo from what I've read but here's my main question: what does 14ga equal in caliber? If I'm reading things correctly, it should be around .690". Does that sound right?

[Old Ironsights]

12ga is .72 and shoots a .69 RB + patch
I've never heard of a 14ga.

[pwl44m]

I can't answer Your question but I have a Double Barrel with exposed hammers in 14 ga. Where do You buy ammo for it. Don't really plan on shooting , I just want to be able to tell prospective buyers that ammo can be had.
Perry

[awp101]

12ga is .72 and shoots a .69 RB + patch
I've never heard of a 14ga.

History of the Martini Greener MK111 Police shotgun
These guns have a remarkable history as they evolved from the British Martini Henry of Zulu war fame. It was manufactured by W.W. Greener one of the most legendary arms factories in Britain.

These single-shot shotguns, built on the famous Military Martini rifle action, were made in England for Egyptian police and used in the early 20th century.

These guns were a classic large Martini dropping block design with two modifications.

A safety lever was added to the right side.
The guns were chambered for a special 14 gauge bottleneck shell with an annular groove in the base which provided clearance for the primer.
This groove design prevented bandits or "terrorists" from using guns captured or stolen from the police, as ordinary shells could not be fired from these guns.

All these firearms have been used by police in some of the most exotic historical areas of the world.

pwl, I saw reference to a Rocky Mountain Cartridge Company (IIRC) that will turn 14ga brass hulls.


I've found a couple of 12ga Greeners but it seems the 14ga is more prevalent. I'm wondering if a .45-70 insert could be used in the 14ga. We're talking BP only loads here...

[pwl44m]

"They will turn 14ga brass hulls", I'll just Them it can be had.
Perry

[Rusty]

I have my G,Great gradfather's ML shotgun that he used as a market hunter in Maryland many years ago. For years I assumed it was a 12 ga until Jr was looking at it one day and found the 14 stamped on the underside of the barrels.

[Shasta]

Per a Google search 14 gauge is .693 diameter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_%28bore_diameter%29


SHASTA

[cas]

The Greener Police has a 3 prong firing pin… basically 3 firing pins. The case head had a grove in it around the primer. So the middle pin hit the primer, the two outer pins went in the groove. If you used a standard case in them, the two outer pins would bottom out on the case head and keep it from firing.

The "fix" would seem to be shortening the two extra pins.

I had one briefly that I was going to use as a project, but I changed my mind and sold it.

[pwl44m]

I have my G,Great gradfather's ML shotgun that he used as a market hunter in Maryland many years ago. For years I assumed it was a 12 ga until Jr was looking at it one day and found the 14 stamped on the underside of the barrels.

That is where Mine is marked 14.
Perry

[BAGTIC]

This site will answer all your questions and some you never thought to ask.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/shotshellloads.html

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I converted this one to 12ga 2/34 using a long forcing cone reamer. The firing pin had the two outside pins removed and with the long cone and only about .030" restriction it shot just fine. BTW, these were re-barrel rifles using nitro proofed shotgun barrels.

[gamekeeper]

Some years ago Westley Richards converted a lot of Greener Police Riot Guns to 12Ga.
All the ones I've seen have Police Riot Gun stamped on the receiver.

[olyinaz]

I converted this one to 12ga 2/34 using a long forcing cone reamer. The firing pin had the two outside pins removed and with the long cone and only about .030" restriction it shot just fine. BTW, these were re-barrel rifles using nitro proofed shotgun barrels.

That certainly seems like a serviceable solution!

[Bill in Oregon]

I have an old 14 gauge paper shell from the BP era. Bet Rocky Mountain Cartridge would indeed be the place to find them. Circle Fly will have all the proper wads.

[Hagler]

...Greener Police 14 Gauge shell:

http://www.gunauction.com/search/displa ... um=9672857





.

...over halfway down the page:

http://www.freeexistence.org/images/guns/



Still more on the 14 gauge:

http://www.iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7283

Plastic cases:







Video:

http://youtu.be/k0KVKfR-aY4

Shawn

[rogn]

Ive still got a few of the plastic bottleneck cases(loaded) if anyone has an interest

[awp101]

Thanks guys!

I'm still rounding up info. I've seen where the action is strong enough for .219 Zipper, .225 Win and the like but I don't know that for sure. I'm also not 100% all of the MkIII's were converted from M-H rifles. As long as they were in production I would imagine there were some new manufacture receivers used and there were probably changes made.

RMCC does have brass and a loading kit for the bottleneck 14ga. Comes out to about $125 for 10 cases and the kit. Ouch... pwl, they list 14ga hulls (straight, not bottle neck) for $60/10. http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/products.htm

NKJ, PM inbound.