Thoughts about a 'minimalist' battery...

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:46 pm

44MagHunter and I were talking about a minimalist cover-all-needs battery, and being 'men' we of course had to include half-mile sniping, so we started with the 338 Lapua and worked our way 'down' to shorter ranges.

He's enamored with the 300 AAC Blackout and keeps trying to talk me out of mine, but when I was researching that I know I liked the 338 Whisper and think it was an 'AR-compatible' round, but I went for the more 'standard' one and am glad I did. Nonetheless, we decided a 338 Whisper could be the lower end of the spectrum, and maybe a 338 Federal for the low-middle. Probably some wildcat for the high-middle.

We decided that the idea would be to stick with short/fat bullets for our handguns and long/skinny high-ballistic-coefficient bullets for the rifles. Of course that meant .45 for the handguns, because the battery HAD to include a 1911 and a big-bore wheelgun (convertible Bisley). We'd have to settle for either a small 1911 or DA revolver conversion or whatever in 45 instead of my 44 Bulldog for the small-CCW firearm.

The reason for sticking with the 338 for rifle (other than the exotic, hard-to-find-ammo-for 22 LR of course) was that it seems big enough to do about anything and yet small enough that driving a high-b.c. bullet to 3000 fps or more won't dislocate your shoulder. We of course had a lively debate about whether ANY 338 caliber cartridge (or weapon) would be suitable for close-range grizzly (lots of them here in Indiana, you know). In 'my' ideal minimalist battery there would be a carbine-sized levergun like an 1886 in 45-70 or 450 Mariln, or maybe one of the 500 S&W ones, even though it would break the 'single-caliber' rule.

El Chivo wrote:I may also go ahead with the project to rebore a 30-30 to 30-357 and have a wide array of pistol bullets to shoot.

This got me wondering if anyone ever made a 30-338 wildcat. Then I got to thinking do they even make 338 bullets with flat points.

Anyway, just thought I'd share the musings...

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:37 pm

Doc, you remind me of a buddy of mine, he's got gun ADD for sure. Talking to him about what is the best or what he wants to do makes my head hurt.

One thing I began to consider within the last 5 years as far as "best" guns was logistics. The "ideal" cartridge or firearm may not be the "best" one. In other words "best" is subjective. When considering logistics, the first thing I look at is common availability of parts and ammo, which immediately focuses in on military and law enforcement firearms and calibers. The the most common or reliable firearms.

So, here's the list of chambering's I go by (in no particular order)

5.56/.223

.308

.300 winmag (in case you folks don't know, the Army several years ago converted most or all of the M24's from .308 to 300winmag, and yes, the M24's used a long action)

9mm

.40 S&W

12ga

Then there's common civilian rounds

30-06

30-30

.38/.357

.45acp

Anything else is considered non-standard (this is my standard, no one else's).

My short list of guns for a streamlined "battery", in order of importance, is:

AR15 A2 carbine
Glock17
Remington or Savage in .300winmag.

Suppressors for all 3 would be ideal if possible.

A Mossberg 500 of one kind or another can be added but not neccesary. ( This is a whole other story, but my personal experiences with both is the Mossy 500 is "better" and more reliable than an 870. Interestingly, the Army seems to prefer them, I am issued a Defender, and I've shot several 590's and Defenders while in uniform.)

I know that I personally can easily carry all three, enough ammo to sustain prolonged activity, can easily resupply almost anywhere, and those three will cover any and all bases I would be likely to encounter anywhere.

A G22 could arguably be a better choice than the G17, but I hate the .40 S&W round. However, once I have a .40 barrel for my G20, that may change.

Good topic relevant to the times Doc.

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:43 pm

Absolute minimalist; Glock 27 with a 9mm barrell. 11, 22 and 33 shot magazines. Remington 12 gauge. 18" rifled sighted choked tubed barrell. extended mag. rifled and improved/modifed choke tubes.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:50 pm

For the average Joe, I assume.

As many .22s and as much ammo as you can hoard. 22mags encouraged.

A good pump shotgun, and beau coup ammo.

A good 30wcf...see above ammo comments, plus the fixin's to reload a bunch.

Two or more .45acps and as much ammo as possible.

We all, for the most part, have far in excess of this, but, that would do....That would do.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:10 pm

BlaineG wrote:For the average Joe, I assume.

As many .22s and as much ammo as you can hoard. 22mags encouraged.

A good pump shotgun, and beau coup ammo.

A good 30wcf...see above ammo comments, plus the fixin's to reload a bunch.

Two or more .45acps and as much ammo as possible.

We all, for the most part, have far in excess of this, but, that would do....That would do.

I think this is in line with what our southern-continent brother 'FerFal' would relate as most practical when Argentina went down the (socialist) tubes... http://ferfal.blogspot.com/

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:25 pm

BlaineG wrote:For the average Joe, I assume.
A good pump shotgun, and beau coup ammo.
A good 30wcf...see above ammo comments, plus the fixin's to reload a bunch.
Two or more .45acps and as much ammo as possible.
We all, for the most part, have far in excess of this, but, that would do....That would do.

There. Now, I can agree. (Since I only have one .22 and not a lot of ammo)!

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:29 pm

Well, I'm not thinking end of world but I think the battery should include whatever scenario the individual gun enthusiast is concerned about. Some are into various forms of shooting competition, others more concerned with ccw, or hunting, or collecting or ........

I am concerned about personal protection and hunting. Those categories each have their minimum for me. For protection I have a Nighthawk 1911 in 45 acp, a sig 220 in 45 acp and a sig 238 in .380. I also have a customized 870, all work done by Nighthawk, in 12 bore. As you can see, it's a close in scenario I'm considering,home defense, personal defense etc.

For hunting, I have a variety of needs:
.20 cal accurate scoped pellet rifle
.54 caliber flintlock (for late season primitive hunting)
A 22lr rifle
I center fire hunting rifle in the .30 caliber range (mine is a 32 special win 94) or a 45-70
A 375 H&H for all other hunting
A 12 bore side by side

A 22 pistol to carry when carrying a center fire rifle or shotgun
A big bore pistol for hiking in bear country, two legged varmint country, or when carrying the 22 rifle

For shooting fun, I go for a sharps in BP

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:42 pm

The 30-338 wildcat has been around since the 338 win mag was first produced. 30 aliber bullet in a 338 case. Was the bee's knees at one time for long range shooting.
I like the 6.5mm in anything for all ranges. Possibly the best cartridge out to 3/4 mile and any distances shorter than that would be the 7mm-08. It does not go subsonic until 1400 yds or so, which outshines the 308 winchester. Accuracy is fantastic with the right BC bullets, and it does not eat the barrel in 500 rounds.
For a close range heavy hitter the 45-70 or a rifled slug gun, say savage 210.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:53 pm

flatnose wrote:The 30-338 wildcat has been around since the 338 win mag was first produced. 30 aliber bullet in a 338 case.

I may be wrong on this, but I think the Dr was suggesting a .338 bullet in a necked up 30-30 case?

Hayseed · Post by **Hayseed** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:48 pm

AJMD429 wrote:44MagHunter and I were talking about a minimalist cover-all-needs battery, and being 'men' we of course had to include half-mile sniping, so we started with the 338 Lapua and worked our way 'down' to shorter ranges.

He's enamored with the 300 AAC Blackout and keeps trying to talk me out of mine, but when I was researching that I know I liked the 338 Whisper and think it was an 'AR-compatible' round, but I went for the more 'standard' one and am glad I did. Nonetheless, we decided a 338 Whisper could be the lower end of the spectrum, and maybe a 338 Federal for the low-middle. Probably some wildcat for the high-middle.

We decided that the idea would be to stick with short/fat bullets for our handguns and long/skinny high-ballistic-coefficient bullets for the rifles. Of course that meant .45 for the handguns, because the battery HAD to include a 1911 and a big-bore wheelgun (convertible Bisley). We'd have to settle for either a small 1911 or DA revolver conversion or whatever in 45 instead of my 44 Bulldog for the small-CCW firearm.

The reason for sticking with the 338 for rifle (other than the exotic, hard-to-find-ammo-for 22 LR of course) was that it seems big enough to do about anything and yet small enough that driving a high-b.c. bullet to 3000 fps or more won't dislocate your shoulder. We of course had a lively debate about whether ANY 338 caliber cartridge (or weapon) would be suitable for close-range grizzly (lots of them here in Indiana, you know). In 'my' ideal minimalist battery there would be a carbine-sized levergun like an 1886 in 45-70 or 450 Mariln, or maybe one of the 500 S&W ones, even though it would break the 'single-caliber' rule.

El Chivo wrote:I may also go ahead with the project to rebore a 30-30 to 30-357 and have a wide array of pistol bullets to shoot.
This got me wondering if anyone ever made a 30-338 wildcat. Then I got to thinking do they even make 338 bullets with flat points.

Anyway, just thought I'd share the musings...

I have one on a pre 64 Win . 338 necked down to 30 cal maintaining original shoulder angle. I use mostly Win cases , 7mm Mag necked up to 30 cal . 180 gr bullet , 4831milsurp powder gets me 3150fps and dime sized groups at 100yds.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:50 pm

Flatnose..WOW!
Thought I was the only one felt that way about 6.5.
You ought to see my 6.5-06.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:01 pm

sore shoulder wrote:I may be wrong on this, but I think the Dr was suggesting a .338 bullet in a necked up 30-30 case?

Yep. Still found the other information interesting, though...!

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:05 pm

I know how boring I sound but I should get a merit badge for consistency.

I think about this every time I leave the house and drive 85 miles to MIL's.

The minimalist scenario at that time is this: should it be necessary to walk back to the ranch house, what can I carry with me, and just as important, what do I NOT want to have to leave behind.

I usually wind up with a 9, my wife has her 380, and the ammo that is in them. Sometimes I have a box of ammo for whatever I have on me. I might have a G22 or XD45 in the pack. Unless I am going to the woods to shoot I won't normally have a long gun on board for the two reasons I cited above.

For the 'jump in the boat and run for our lives' scenario, the 12ga with a lot of ammo and the 22s with a lot of ammo go aboard. Water purification and fire making follow. My redhawk with the superGrizzstopper loads is included. At this point I am willing to abandon every other firearm on the place if there's no time to take them.

If I "need" a sniper rifle or an AR15 or AR10 then I am in the wrongest place at the wrongest time and failed to do my duty properly. If I have to be involved in combat then there is no restriction on how I obtain whatever I need to be "all I can be".

My worst nightmare, vividly lived out in the night watches for more than 50 years, I pray it doesn't come to pass but I suspect it will.

xxx_Obama Arrested.jpg

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:17 pm

Grizz, everyone should have a hiking knapsack in the car with all the essentials for a possible overnight in inclement weather should you be stranded, and really should have a 3 day supply. The vehicles should have even more supplements to that

Like you said, water purification, fire starting, add first aid, warm clothing items (wool socks, long sleeved lightwieght performance thermals, wool or fleece watch cap, gloves), space blanket or bag, utility tool of some kind, knife, flashlight, basic medicines even if just Ibuprofen and an aspirin/caffiene/acetamenaphine combo. etc etc etc

Heck this needs its own thread

Barcelona Rick · Post by **Barcelona Rick** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:26 pm

30-06 Bolt with scope
.22 Rifle
.22 Revolver
20 or 12 gauge pump
.45 ACP 1911A1
.357 Revolver

rick

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:32 pm

.22lr revolver, S&W Model 17 mfg 1959.
Winchester Model 12, 20 gage all purpose shotgun.
Mossberg 930, 12 gage autoloader. Defensive arm, two and four legged creatures.
.308 auto loader/ Springfield SOCOM 16 with Leopold Scout Scope.
Custom Springfield sporter in.30-06
Ruger 10/22 Scout Rifle by Chief AJ.
Ruger SBH/ Bowen Custom .44 Magnum
Colt Combat Elite .45ACP.
Sig P238 in .380 ACP.

If I had to pick three it would be the S&W .22, Springfield '06 and the Model 12. But I doubt I could live without my Bowen .44!

jb

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:44 pm

I know Frank, you start it, I trust your judgement.

When the descriptor is "minimalist" it kind of squeezes down the possible to the practical. And not all of us are in as good physical shape as you are, and may have to carry less just so the u-joints make the trek. I guess I should consider getting a Rotweiler to pack the ammo saddle bags.

n2t · Post by **n2t** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:04 pm

Minimal? My multi pump airgun, warm clothing, a gerber profile knife (or my sog bowie) and a tarp with some paracord and my magnesium fire starter, maybe replace with airgun with the recurve..maybe.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:11 pm

Grizz wrote:I know Frank, you start it, I trust your judgement.

When the descriptor is "minimalist" it kind of squeezes down the possible to the practical. And not all of us are in as good physical shape as you are, and may have to carry less just so the u-joints make the trek. I guess I should consider getting a Rotweiler to pack the ammo saddle bags.

Already posted it.

I used to have packs for my Rotties, and even hitched one to a goat cart my friend made for his daughter, they do a great job toting and pulling things. However, there's a better option, pack goats. Can carry twice their weight, eat anything, don't run off or need a lead, and give you a nice healthy warm breakfast every morning. I'm not even kidding. There's an older gal here in Colorado who runs all over the mtns with a bunch of them.

As to weight, the packs I've built for the girls are pretty light, and the packs themselves very comfortable to carry, but have all the essentials, with plenty of room for the other sundries as needed.

Another option is a game or chore cart. I once saw some guys cross a desert in Mongolia or somewhere tracking an elusive herd of Saigas. The had all their gear on lightwieght single wheel carts. Some of the newer game carts fold up nice and small, but you can exponentially increase the amount of gear you can carry. And one of those chore carts with solid tires would pack a heck of a lot of gear. There was once an idiot on the internet named Gunkid with all kinds of stupid ideas, except the one people really made fun of I actually thought was great, the Tactical Wheelbarrow, complete with a pivot mount for a 10/22.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:15 am

I like the goat idea. Can they be car trained? Or will they eat the seats?

Josh Slocum took a goat on his solo circumnavigation. The goat ate his sailing chart. He ate the goat.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:25 am

Grizz wrote:I like the goat idea. Can they be car trained? Or will they eat the seats?

Josh Slocum took a goat on his solo circumnavigation. The goat ate his sailing chart. He ate the goat.

That made me laugh.

As far as car trained, my inlaws (they're a bit...goofy) had a pet billy goat they took everywhere in a car and minivan. I hated that thing and would have brained it a couple times (most notably when it was standing on all fours on the hood of my truck) had the wife not convinced me otherwise. Anyway, I don't recall it eating the upholstery. It did like to lick battery posts, but unfortunately battery acid didn't seem to hurt it. My buddies goat drank 3 quarts of oil he had just drained from his tractor. It survived and lived for years after a week of motor oil squirts and no other apparent problems.

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:30 am

The term "minimalist battery" conjures up so many different scenarios and lines of thought. I will say that if I had to leave my home right now, and never come back or look back, I would grab my AK, two 22lr rifles, two 22lr handguns, and four 50cal ammo cans that are packed with the appropriate ammo in both calibers. The "extra" 22 rifle and handgun would either be used by a friend, family member or used for bartering.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:00 am

Well, I am contemplating taking chickens with me on the last voyage, to replace the internet connection. I may as well take a goat along for the added benefits...

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:40 pm

Grizz wrote:I may as well take a goat along for the added benefits...

I slept with a goat last night, actually...

We had three born prematurely and only one lived, and we've been taking turns keeping it warm and bottle-feeding it (mom won't accept her), actually. Probably only weighs 3 pounds, but pretty cute (...not that cute...

).

(click < here > or on picture to see the little thing skip and run

)

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:59 pm

that's awesome. what provisions would you have to take along to feed a goat for extended sea time? nothing to browse on the ocean...

Catshooter · Post by **Catshooter** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:15 pm

If I had to walk carrying mine, it would be pretty mini alright.

Probably my Glock 19 with three or four spare loaded mags. If I was feeling frisky enough to pack a long gun it would probably be my H&R single shot in 30-30.

Just a small battery around the house in more normal times, well, that could take some thought. Got a few to pick from just like most here. I would prefer the more common bore sizes, calibers for logistical purposes. Even though I cast/reload for everything I shoot it's still a consideration. Stuff can happen.

The 30-30 can do most of what I need a rifle for. The most important (for me) area to cover is self defense and so that would be first and foremost. The Glock 19 being ugly, reliable, without a soul, tough, reliable, and having good capacity and no class fills the bill there.

I could also keep the Winchester 94 Trapper in 45 Colt. That is a sweet firearm.

Cat

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:15 pm

Minimalist is hard for me to do, especially with guns. If I had to walk out the door with what I could carry on me, I would probably choose my AR and my 1911 as they could both serve hunting duty, and are the best I have for a self defense scenario. If I could take what I could carry in my vehicle, I would throw in at least my 7mm-08, my '94 30-30, and my 45-70, my pistol case with my single action .45's, and a .22. If I had to choose just one gun, it would either be the AR or a .22 rifle because those are the easiest to carry ammo for. There are so many scenarios, and it depends on your definition of minimalist. Like n2t, if I were going truly minimalist I would have my bow, knife, fire starting material and some sort of tarp or shelter

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:28 pm

I didn't read the OP as if we were leaving home and had to carry all this. Lol. If that is the case, I would reduce to the nighthawk 45, sig 380, and win 94.

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:41 pm

My bad, maybe I misunderstood. It's been a long week. If I had to cut down my collection to "minimalist" standards....I'd need a better definition of minimalist, but I could get it down to my 30-30, 45-70, one .22 rifle, my AR, 1911, one .45 Colt single action, and my Single Six without missing too much. Those are the guns I consider most useful, but there are many more that have sentimental value that I would have a tough time parting with. Interestingly, though, none of those are on my minimalist list except for the Single Six.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:27 pm

Ithaca 37 20" 12ga Deerslayer(00 buck/slugs)
Kel-Tec 2000 (.40S&W)

Neat & Sweet!

No long range stuff-------I'll be in the big thick trees on high ground

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:47 pm

rjohns94 wrote:I didn't read the OP as if we were leaving home and had to carry all this.

Agreed, my impression was a home base battery with occasional forays away from home base, not a survival in the wilds scenario. My emergency bag tangent was based on the caught away from home, trying to get back contingency.

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:05 pm

If I was going to go "practical minimalist" based on my use, my arsenal would look like this:
.308 bolt action
.223 bolt action
.44 mag levergun
12 gauge pump
AK-47 variant
Glock 22
.22lr levergun
.22lr handgun
I could probably ditch the top three if I had to be even more "practical", but that's about it. I'm certainly not known for being practical.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:14 pm

sore shoulder wrote:
rjohns94 wrote:I didn't read the OP as if we were leaving home and had to carry all this.
Agreed, my impression was a home base battery with occasional forays away from home base, not a survival in the wilds scenario. My emergency bag tangent was based on the caught away from home, trying to get back contingency.

I agree too, especially since the start was a consideration of a long range gun that can put weight on stuff I can't even see. I devolved to the "what I can carry" because that encompasses my idea of what is minimal. I have more than that laying around the compluter, but I cannot count on being able to always keep an eye on them and to always be able to exert total control over them, for whatever reason.

This gets to what I will or will not willingly leave behind......... I have guns I see once a year, whether I need to or not. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

In a 'running for your life' scenario, I imagine those will be the last thing on my mind. And judging from the output of the ministry of propaganda, that scenario is closer than we think.

o'liarliar.jpg

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:51 pm

I consider minimalist different from bug out gun or getting home gun scenarios. And I do feel I've become dang close to minimalist with my guns.

- 12ga shotgun. Mine's a 1300 with both 22" and 28" vent rib barrels. Full range of Winchokes.
- 12ga slug gun. Mine's a 870 Express with 18.5" barrel and 1.5-4x scope.
- 10/22. Substitute a lever action here if you must.
- Mid-power centerfire rifle or carbine. .30-30s, .243s, 6.5 swedes, .257 bobs, .250-3000s, etc.
- Mid size centerfire handgun. Mine's a 4" Security Six. 1911 works, so would a glock, sig, etc.
- Pocket gun, take your pick.

That's it, that's all I need, I could do anything that needs doing with that list. I don't have big bears, I don't have elk, so I don't need or want big centerfire rifles. But I understand many of you do have/want those bigger critters and have no use for my slug gun so feel free to substitute a larger centerfire in the slug gun category. I don't think any of us HAVE TO handgun hunt so for minimalist needs I limit handguns to SD and CC.

Have a few others floating around but to be honest I would have a dang hard time saying I NEED em.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:20 pm

Another point of consideration. What rounds are your neighbors/friends/allies likely to have and/or need resupply of? Networking supplies during a disaster will be very difficult if there is a gap in commonality, which is just another reason that the "ideal" cartridge may not be the "best" cartridge, and why I encourage people to have at the least whatever is in easy supply or access and consider everything else secondary. Imagine that for whatever reason you have made it to a neighbor or friends with your not so common or standard tools, and can't make it home. Or a neighbor has a desperate need and you can't help him because you chose the 6.5 Grendel and .400 CorBon because they were the "best". Now you have become your only source of resupply, and can't help others either.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:16 pm

sore shoulder wrote:Another point of consideration. What rounds are your neighbors/friends/allies likely to have and/or need resupply of? Networking supplies during a disaster will be very difficult if there is a gap in commonality, which is just another reason that the "ideal" cartridge may not be the "best" cartridge, and why I encourage people to have at the least whatever is in easy supply or access and consider everything else secondary. Imagine that for whatever reason you have made it to a neighbor or friends with your not so common or standard tools, and can't make it home. Or a neighbor has a desperate need and you can't help him because you chose the 6.5 Grendel and .400 CorBon because they were the "best". Now you have become your only source of resupply, and can't help others either.

You'll notice I didn't mention the .284

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:25 pm

sore shoulder wrote:Another point of consideration. What rounds are your neighbors/friends/allies likely to have and/or need resupply of? Networking supplies during a disaster will be very difficult if there is a gap in commonality, which is just another reason that the "ideal" cartridge may not be the "best" cartridge, and why I encourage people to have at the least whatever is in easy supply or access and consider everything else secondary. Imagine that for whatever reason you have made it to a neighbor or friends with your not so common or standard tools, and can't make it home. Or a neighbor has a desperate need and you can't help him because you chose the 6.5 Grendel and .400 CorBon because they were the "best". Now you have become your only source of resupply, and can't help others either.

This is why, of all cartridges I can reload, I have the MOST components for the .357...

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:56 pm

OI

Frank could be thinking about resupply in terms of 7.62, 5.56, 45 ACP, 40 S&W, and 9 mm.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:30 pm

Grizz wrote:OI

Frank could be thinking about resupply in terms of 7.62, 5.56, 45 ACP, 40 S&W, and 9 mm.

Don't disagree. But much depends on where you live.

Lots of .357 around, AND I don't have (much) reloading capacity for 7.62, 9mm or .45.

.38/.357 is common AND I have bulk capacity.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:42 pm

.38/.357 is on my secondary civilian list for a reason. 9mm and .40 are much more common anywhere, especially in any kind of populated area, and your friends are much more likely to have one.

Grizz get's it.

If I'm traveling or going hunting, no matter what else I take, a 9mm is going. 9mm and .40 are the biggest sellers for pistols, both in guns and ammo, ask any retailer.

Bridger · Post by **Bridger** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:49 pm

My bare minimum would be

Winchester 94 in 30-30 mfg 1979
Browning BPS 20ga
Daisy Single shot bolt action .22lr

With those three guns I would feel quite confident doing almost anything. And, if I could throw in my Dan Wesson 15 I know I'd be in good shape.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:53 pm

I have always known I would be alone.
And acted accordingly.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:31 am

A Minimalist concept I believe would be very individual.

If its not an end of the world scenario and I am not truly worried about ammo commonality with military stuff, I may already have this one covered

357 pistols. I can choose from a couple of sturdy, no nonsense ones I have already, like one of my Colt Lawmen, or SW 66. With a couple thousand primers, 500 rounds of brass, and a stockpile of lead bullets, I have a lifetime supply of ammo already. My little 38 Detective Spl can serve as a "holdout piece". And I can strap on a nickel Python when it's time to head to a BBQ T the "End of the RoAD Bar and Grill"

Heavy rifle--- I have a synthetic stock 300 weatherby already. Roughly 300 rounds of brass for it and bullets is a lifetime supply for that firearm. The 300 win mag is more common, sure , but that's not the point for me, as I have the Weatherby ready to go already with sufficient supplies to keep it going for a long time

Light rifle - an AR variant is an easy choice, as I also have a "lifetime supply" of ammo and mags for this platform, ( and when I say"lifetime supply" for all of these, that would mean minimal plinking or other unnecessary shooting plus lots of dry fire training in lieu of live fire)
------ but my 30-30 can also fill this role without the need for an external magazine quite capably as I am not envisioning a need to be "runnin and gunnin" in the woods with a bunch of SOF subscribers, And the 30-30 would be a better medium game round for my needs than a 223 AR. Currently am a little lax in the ammo department for the 30-30 but it wouldn't take much to rectify that.

Have an 870 cruiser style shotgun with rifle sights and an extended mag to back up the AR for defense of the homestead or campsite if need be

So I'm good: to recap

.357 sidearm
.300 Weatherby heavy rifle
.30-30 medium game rifle
AR 15 and 870 sharing equal billing for "peace of mind" purposes

Except the Weatherby, there is nothing exotic on the list, but a Win Mag can do what my WBY can , but I will defer to what i am already supplied for. Same powder and bullets can be used for a WBY or a win mag though, so there is a little common ground. But I am not envisioning my neighbors as being too cooperative in helping out with re-supply , so ammo commonality is not much of a concern for me

Catshooter · Post by **Catshooter** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:34 pm

During the last twenty odd years I've lived through three major, nationwide shortages. I look around now at the various ammo/firearm suppliers to the community and for the last some months they have all been hard hit. This should be no news to most here, except maybe you foreigners!

Accordingly my view of "resupply" is that there won't/isn't any. If I don't have it then I ain't a getting any. These shortages have all been politically caused. In a very bad nationwide disaster it will way way worse. For example I have read that during WW II it wasn't tough to get ammo or guns, it was impossible. Skeeter Skelton said that he once managed to find a guy who would sell him 38 Special reloads. For a buck a pop (lot of money in the early 40s). He wrote that some would shoot as far as a city block.

Just food for thought for those who are planning to resupply.

Cat

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:42 pm

I've been thinking about the merits of a semi-auto 22 long rifle rimfire shooting sub-sonic rounds through a suppressor. It seems that if a fellow wanted to keep a low profile, a rig like that could be an asset.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:29 pm

I really (really, really) want to see how a "ZIP" would do with subsonics, a suppressor and a proper recoil spring...

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:54 pm

Update (sort of). This has been a very interesting 'gun' thread, and could go on forever, but I thought I'd chime back in and offer that my original 'musing' was more along the lines of simplifying inventory as opposed to a 'what you can carry on your person' kind of thing. In other words, a person might have a dozen or more firearms, but just thinking along the lines of how to minimize cartridge inventory and bullet inventory, and yet still fulfill whatever his or her personal needs are. I think most 'needs' should include CCW and home-defense and some sort of target or hunting use, or at least 'practice' needs, as well as one's civic-duty of having some sort of 'militia' firearm with which to help assure a safe and stable society. My idea of 'needs' would thus include:

CCW and practice for same
Home Protection (including protecting livestock from nocturnal predators)
Community Defense (i.e. 'militia' type use)
Hunting game up to Whitetail Deer at up to 250 yards if needed, (usually half that)
Target shooting from 100-1000 yards mostly for fun but as practice for other uses

Anyway, I think the thread is turning into a useful discussion and enjoy the various responses, but thought I'd "clarify" what I was thinking when I started the thread...

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:48 pm

Well, if I was truly looking at a minimalist battery I guess it could be the following.
Wilson Combat 5 inch 1911 with adjustable sights
or a Smith and Wesson model 29 with a 4 inch barrel
and a Smith and Wesson K22 with a 6 inch barrel
For a long gun my first choice would be a Browning BLR in .308 Win
or a Pre-64 model 94 30/30, of course my DSA Fal just might get the nod.

Shotgun Remington 1100 or a Browning A5, or even my old LC Smith side by side.
Throw in a Ruger 10/22 or a Winchester 94/22mag and I could live with it, but I might not be happy.

But I have gotten by with less.
There was a time when I only owned a Remington 1100, a Remington 700 in .270, and a Ruger Single six, and a singleshot 22 rifle and though I was pretty well armed.

I am not much of a Minimalist, though and wouldn't want to be, especially in this day and time. I think it's smart to own a lot of different guns and calibers, even some odd balls, with the ammo situation like it is, I like to have a gun that will shoot any kind of ammo I run across.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:51 am

With the OP clarifying his intent, then I go back back to my original post. I am rethinking my choice of .22 pistol. Found a custom SP101 that may replace the bearcat. And for minimalist I probably wouldn't need two full size 45s. My current inventory reflects pretty much my minimum current needs.

gak · Post by **gak** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:38 pm

I haven't read everyone's in detail but I saw a bunch of good ones. Some folks got away from absolute minimalist right off, which is pretty redundant when you think of it...but I'll play - different levels (and only what I've got)....and I see I too get away from (my) "absolute" criteria right away

!

"Absolute" minimalist.
- Assuming mostly urban
+ .40 sidearm (.357 DA considered for its near foolproof "go bang every time" but its capacity and reload is limiting for "seriously social" purposes)
+ 16 ga pump (or 12 in same if I get that one back which I may soon)
+ M1 Carbine

- Assuming mostly rural
+ .357 S&W DA (.44 Mag SA if "really" bear country).
+ .44 Mag lever (would say .30-30 but to 125, the .44's bout the same and as far as my eyes can see with iron sights anyway).
----
Unknown environment(s)
+ .357 DA
+ .357 lever
+ 16/12 ga pump
----
Medium (enhanced) Minimalist
- Urban
+ .357 DA "bedside"
+ .40 Auto "walkabout"
+ .16/12 ga pump
+ M1 Carbine
+ 10-22 as "backup" HD
+ .30-30 for occasional rural hunting forays "if allowed" another; othewise far-from-ideal for larger game but the M1 suffices for this minimalist exercise, just get a lot closer to that mulie!!

- Rural
+ .22 bolt rifle
+ .22/Mag Single Six sidearm small game getter sidearm
+ .357 SA landyard'd trail and "Fishing" gun, black bear country maximum
+ .44 Mag SA Camp gun
+ .44 Mag lever "if allowed"
+ .270 Win big game-getter
+ 16/12 ga pump - camp 'n bird gun

Note: I'm a big .22 LR/Mag fan and understand it'd be a natural "hardcore" survival choice (the more likely smaller game, ammo carrying etc), in which case my Win 69A (or 10-22 (or Win/Browning .22 lever if I had one), plus a 4-5/8" Single Six on the hip would seem to be the "truly" minimalist approach.....

Otherwise, I would not knowingly go into the wilderness (urban or rural) with the a rimfire .22 only, IF I had a larger caliber choice and a "reasonable" stash or reasonable expectatrion of ammo supply - especially if "seriously social" (urban) or dangerous animal (two or four legged) circumstances (urban/rural) are anticipated.