How many guys can truly handle a rifle 30-06 or bigger?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:32 pm

I really wish I had the pictures from my 100rd range day with a benched .45-70 guide gun...

I had hematoma from shoulder to beltline...

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:41 pm

Recoil has its place for me. Not when shooting bunnies or small deer in short ranges. Heavy game or long distance is fine. I'm not sensitive.

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:52 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:I really wish I had the pictures from my 100rd range day with a benched .45-70 guide gun...

I had hematoma from shoulder to beltline...

If I plan on shooting my 444P from the bench for an extended period, I have a couple of old shooting jackets that have good shoulder, sling, and elbow pads. A canvas Ten-X brand and a leather Hawkeye brand. If you are getting bruised like that you ought to invest in one.
I even wear one when shooting prairie dogs, those elbow pads are great when shooting prone for a couple of hours.

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:46 pm

Its just what you're used to, nothing more. Don't know about magnums, never owned one. But practice a lot with a 30-06 or 8mm Mauser and in a few months it won't be any big deal.... just watch that thumb

Aussie Chris · Post by **Aussie Chris** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:07 pm

My Tikka T3 light 30.06, with my full house 180gn sambar pills leaves a bruise. I am not a big bloke but can handle it. About 40 shots off the bench is enough before it becomes not enjoyable.

I now use an even bigger kicker, my 444 Marlin with 265gn hornady full house hunting loads. Now that boots but is the right medicine for sambar.

For me, it's about ethics. Using the most appropriate gun you can handle to take the game properly. Sambar are a big deer and it is not unusual to see many using a 458win mag to get the job done.

Chris

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:54 am

Mescalero wrote:olyinaz,
If you do shoot it, do it standing.

Yes!

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:45 am

Removed

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:07 am

Nowadays, the worst part of shooting the big boys is not the recoil or noise but the cost! The 375 H£H is the largest practical cartridge I shoot regularly but it hits me in the wallet a little steep. My 45-70 is Loaded as a BPCR so is mild in comparison and a whole lot cheaper to shoot.

rogn · Post by **rogn** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:52 am

And if you shoot from the bench use a "standing bench" rather than sitting at one. It makes a tremendous difference. I can deal w/ about 10 rounds from the R375 this way. Same as offhand. Sitting down, forget it.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:31 am

It is all just a matter of practice. For many years I fired the 30-06 round in competition and fired many thousands of rounds. It didn't take long for the round to feel like just a grown up 22 LR, i.e. hardly noticeable.

I never got to the point to where a 375 Holland and Holland felt like a pop gun, but I could and can shoot one very well.

It is a matter of concentrating on the basics; how to hold the rifle, breath control, sight picture and trigger squeeze. Focus on those things and recoil becomes a non-issue. If you focused on the basics, you won't anticipate the recoil and flinch.

For a heavy recoiling firearm (I don't put the 30-06 in that class), just pull the butt firmly into the shoulder with the strong hand, relax the rest of your body and tickle the trigger. If you tense up and try and fight the recoil, it will be much worse.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:32 am

It is all just a matter of practice. For many years I fired the 30-06 round in competition and fired many thousands of rounds. It didn't take long for the round to feel like just a grown up 22 LR, i.e. hardly noticeable.

I never got to the point to where a 375 Holland and Holland felt like a pop gun, but I could and can shoot one very well.

It is a matter of concentrating on the basics; how to hold the rifle, breath control, sight picture and trigger squeeze. Focus on those things and recoil becomes a non-issue. If you focused on the basics, you won't anticipate the recoil and flinch.

For a heavy recoiling firearm (I don't put the 30-06 in that class), just pull the butt firmly into the shoulder with the strong hand, relax the rest of your body and tickle the trigger. If you tense up and try and fight the recoil, it will be much worse.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:19 pm

Bridger----The man up comment I made in a prior post(reflecting on it today)I might have been a little less(blunt/or I could have surely used better phrasing)
You and you alone only know what you feel capable of handling-------and honestly it's not my place to say what another man can handle or cannot handle.
I apologize for that insensitive comment------I am sure whatever you shoot at--------you get the job done my friend!

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:51 pm

Pretty sure I could put you in a firing position where a 30-06 would HURT you to fire it.

Through experience the body can learn to let itself move with recoil so is doesn't hurt - but I will tell you it can also forget.

But - can also recall.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:39 pm

I sight in my rifles, I know where they hit at my personal hunting limitations, and I practice with a .22.....Actually, if you can hit real good at fifty feet with a BB gun, you have learned Sight, Breath, and Trigger control, and that will suffice, for the most part

(The Japanese Olympic shooting teams practice with AirSoft due to firearms restrictions)

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:26 pm

Charles nailed it. There is a technique to deal with it. I shot a 338 WM for a lot of years loading bullets from 200 gr to 275 gr. My R-77 had a less than useful butt pad on it. I got used to it and it truly didn't bother me at all to shoot it. Don't know about 30-06. I never owned one and though I possibly have shot them, I can't recall it.

Stock geometry matters. Some stocks will make it worse while others will make it better.
There are very good recoil pads around now and they make it better.
There are recoil absorbers that can be installed in the stock that will make it better.

One 30-06 can hit you harder or softer than another.

My Dad was recoil sensitive and didn't enjoy the 338.
He hunted with a 243 and used a 223 as a target plinker.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:34 pm

Don't know if I am an average shooter, but 30-06 is one of the smallest calibers I own. I have numerous guns of larger bore size and power. A 30-06 is easy for me to handle.

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:52 pm

When I was a very young buck, in my teens and early 20's, recoil was something I didn't tolerate well and so 100% of my hunting with done with either a 25-35 or a .357 rifle. Then I started shooting trap competitively and all the sudden I found that rifles, to a point, didn't bother me recoil wise. Right before I foolishly let myself be traded out of my last .375 H&H, I had shot 80 rounds of 270's at 2750fps off a bench rest, I believe my final group was as good as the first one and that rifle made me tiny little groups of around 1" to 1 1/2".

But my tolerance is reached at a .458. I just can't handle 500's at 2000fps. 45-70's and 400's at 1750, yes.

But as I've gotten older and unfortunately older yet, I've learned that a .44 special at 800fps exits a deer ribcage the same as a 400gr 45-70 at 1400fps exits an elks ribcage. Big boomers just aren't needed unless one is young and just loves the feeling of recoil, something that can't be discounted because I went through that phase too

2x22

tman · Post by **tman** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:15 pm

How the gun fits. 12 gauge riot gun slugs and full blown 45-70 loads in an 86 carbine with a curved steel buttplate don't bother me at all. 10 rounds of factory Remington 240 grain in my 94 bigbore with a rubber plate, at the range, beats me up. Shooting game, I've never experienced recoil. My savage 99A .308 kicks more than one would think it should.

Grizzly Adams · Post by **Grizzly Adams** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:49 pm

I believe the history of the 30-06 as our primary service cartridge for about 50 years, and a handful of wars in which literally millions of American men served, proves lots of folks can tolerate the "aught six."

A man equipped with a 30-06 can take on just about anything, man or beast.

Bridger · Post by **Bridger** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:32 pm

madman4570 wrote:Bridger----The man up comment I made in a prior post(reflecting on it today)I might have been a little less(blunt/or I could have surely used better phrasing)
You and you alone only know what you feel capable of handling-------and honestly it's not my place to say what another man can handle or cannot handle.
I apologize for that insensitive comment------I am sure whatever you shoot at--------you get the job done my friend!

No offense taken, bro. It has been a good read with a lot of interesting thoughts. I bought my '06 (a Browning BLR) from my dad, and he had a scope mounted on it that I haven't ever taken off. I guess one of the big reasons I just don't like it may have something to do with the fact that I am mostly used to using iron sights such as on my 30-30. Well, when I bought that rifle, I had never shot it. So, I treated it like my 30-30 with open sights and the scope came back and woke me up. That kinda jaded me on it. Which I guess is a personal issue I just need to get over. But, I just get along with my '94 so well I have a hard time making myself take the '06 out.

Secondly, shotguns don't seem to bother me nearly as much as rifles. To me, a 12 gauge, even with 3 inch buckshot, is just a heavy push and I can take it fine. That being said, I am a 20 gauge man. Most 12's seem to feel bulky to me. But I digress, lol.

Edit: One other thought.....The only 45-70 I have shot I don't remember feeling any different than my 30-30. It was, however, just some 405 grain cheap Remington ammo in a full size 1895.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:59 pm

I've put 60 rounds of .30-06 through a Weatherby off the bench and kept it minute of angle or better throughout.

My upper limit is the large .300's (.338, etc). I've shot up to a .416, but i won't shoot bigger than a .300 for more than a magazine unless I have a real good reason.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:46 pm

Edit: One other thought.....The only 45-70 I have shot I don't remember feeling any different than my 30-30. It was, however, just some 405 grain cheap Remington ammo in a full size 1895.

Ya'but that load can rain death at a mile and a half when used as an artillary piece. At that range it'll penetrate a horse. That cheap load will cleanly kill anything on the two adjacent continents. It'll also plink, protect, and works pretty well as a target load.

Sounds like you just need to take some time to make friends with that 30 cal and let it train you some more. It's world famous and highly respected for good reason.

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:43 am

Stock design is certainly a big issue. One uncle bought a used 20 gauge single shot during WWII. He thought he had got quite a bargain as it also came with a couple boxes of shells. The boxes were missint only 3 shells. My Dad threw a can in the air for his BIL and when the gun went off, my uncle let out a grunt almost as loud as the shot. Dad said Uncle Hudene just said, "I can see why that dirty so-and-so got rid of it." I have never shot more than 30 rounds from my Model 700 30-06 in any range session, but the last round is always still where the others were. My Guide Gun with a Limb Saver pad on it is actually fun with factory ammunition. With stouter loads, it can start to let me know that it is time to put it away after about 30 or 40 rounds. PillHer's Rossi Trifecta with the .243 barrel hurts me.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:25 pm

Funny you should say that about PillHer's .243.
my .243 a Husqvarna, as Old Shatterhand says " kicks like a wild donkey ".

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:00 pm

Mescalero wrote:Funny you should say that about PillHer's .243.
my .243 a Husqvarna, as Old Shatterhand says " kicks like a wild donkey ".

My 1894 Marlin in .44mag will leave a mark with most full loads....I never imagined a .243 being much more exciting than a .223

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:04 pm

I'll let you shoot it when you get here, then we'll talk again.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:10 pm

BlaineG wrote:
Mescalero wrote:Funny you should say that about PillHer's .243.
my .243 a Husqvarna, as Old Shatterhand says " kicks like a wild donkey ".
My 1894 Marlin in .44mag will leave a mark with most full loads....I never imagined a .243 being much more exciting than a .223

#1 son was making meat with his from about 9 years old or so. never mentioned anything about recoil.....

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:17 pm

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:21 pm

But, But, But...

I WANT to hunt at 1.5mi with a 50bmg...

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:40 pm

COSteve wrote:Yes, one can shoot some calibers at longer ranges, however, aren't we forgetting about humane hunting limits when trying for insanely long range shots?

Tell that to some of those clowns on TV !

I dare say they're in the top 3 causes of inexperienced folks blasting away at deer at yardages that would be considered "marginal" at best !

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:44 pm

Wanna see "inhumane"? Shoot an animal with an arrow then watch them walk off and bleed out for a half hour.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:34 pm

sore shoulder wrote:Wanna see "inhumane"? Shoot an animal with an arrow then watch them walk off and bleed out for a half hour.

Artimis has blessed me so far and all of my arrowed deer die within steps.

But I hear you. WHether it be Arrow or bullet, I have never understood why people accept the idea that "tracking" an animal for more than 100yds is acceptable.

Might happen to me someday, but it hasn't so far and I still won't be blase' about it if it does...

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:39 pm

COSteve wrote:However, with the performance of the 30-06 being equal to any animal in North American when when matched with the appropriate bullet and round, why would anyone really need to go to a higher recoiling caliber?

Yes, one can shoot some calibers at longer ranges, however, aren't we forgetting about humane hunting limits when trying for insanely long range shots?

I say that the real 'measure' of a hunter isn't how much recoil they can withstand, but how well they can 'hunt' their prey to within humane distances vice standing back and blasting long range.

YMMV

I have a good friend in Tucson who hunts Elk out West with a .300 RUM for exactly the reason you state - humane killing power at range. He wants a DRT kill at the ranges he shoots and he does not feel that .30-06 will give that. He brings home animals killed with one shot every year. A bison just last week. Who am I to argue with him?

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:10 pm

COSteve wrote:...However, with the performance of the 30-06 being equal to any animal in North American when when matched with the appropriate bullet and round, why would anyone really need to go to a higher recoiling caliber?

Yes, one can shoot some calibers at longer ranges, however, aren't we forgetting about humane hunting limits when trying for insanely long range shots?

I say that the real 'measure' of a hunter isn't how much recoil they can withstand, but how well they can 'hunt' their prey to within humane distances vice standing back and blasting long range.

YMMV

Yes, the '06 will kill anything in NA, but that doesnt mean heavier calibers aren't useful, and not just for more range. We can say the 30-30 is up to anything in NA also, and certainly has killed everything, but that step up to the '06 is decisive, just as another step up can be, especially in those instances that the shot isnt perfect (not always our choice when the animal moves etc). Some people simply arent bothered by heavier calibers, it has nothing to do with macho or whatever, just simply not bothered, or willing to learn to shoot them well. Just as some like to shot a 44 or 45-70 for deer, they just like the extra margin of power (or even just enjoy the guns). Things dont always go exactly right, or one may choose to take a shot with a heavier gun that isn't as good an idea with a lighter one, like a quartering shot.

I dont think anyone has said that shooting a heavy recoiling gun is any measure of a hunter. It sounds good for a good talking point, but hasn't been mentioned, and I dont think it's really a good point. I agree that one should be able to get within practical range of what they choose to hunt with, and shoot well, but for some, that means something different than the next guy. Some guys simply don't shoot even a 30-30 all that well, another may be wicked good with a 300, 338 or whatever without any drama. I prefer to hunt with the largest thing I can shoot well and enjoy shooting. For me, that means the 338 most of the time (except for recently with a sore shoulder from a fall), the 375 isn't quite as comfortable for me, that seems to be the balance point to me.

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:11 pm

"Bang, flop" as I like to call it is only possible with massive central nervous system disconnect; like a head or neck shot. Terms like DRT always make me laugh and cringe a little at the same time. Anyone who thinks that they are "always" going to get a DRT with a shot to the vitals (traditional heart/lung) is just fooling themselves. It's that kind of thinking that leads some people to not even bothering to track animals that run off after the shot, they just assume they've missed. Which I happen to think is inhumane, but inhumane is a relative term anyway. I'm not qualified to answer how much suffering a heart/lung shot with a broad head causes a whitetail deer vs having a bullet blow out it's lungs and heart. What were we talking about? Oh yeah, recoil...

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:26 pm

nemhed wrote:"Bang, flop" as I like to call it is only possible with massive central nervous system disconnect; like a head or neck shot. Terms like DRT always make me laugh and cringe a little at the same time. Anyone who thinks that they are "always" going to get a DRT with a shot to the vitals (traditional heart/lung) is just fooling themselves. It's that kind of thinking that leads some people to not even bothering to track animals that run off after the shot, they just assume they've missed. Which I happen to think is inhumane, but inhumane is a relative term anyway. I'm not qualified to answer how much suffering a heart/lung shot with a broad head causes a whitetail deer vs having a bullet blow out it's lungs and heart. What were we talking about? Oh yeah, recoil...

My experience too. I wonder bout folks that say every critter they've shot dropped on the spot. IME, IF 25% of our slug gunned, heart/lung shot deer dropped DRT I'd be shocked. Some will run 50 feet, others 100 yards. No big deal. I've seen heart shot deer run a good ways, drop and yet get up and run again as the hunter approaches to claim his prize.

You can however over come this. I've yet to see a fox hit COM with a centerfire take another step, most coyotes will DRT too with centerfires. How big do you have to go to get this kinda over-whelming power on a deer? I have no idea and don't care. Critters running a few steps never bothered me.

86er · Post by **86er** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:40 pm

Everyone has summed this up well already. It is not so much the caliber but the amount of recoil energy, rearward velocity and distance of travel of the recoiling rifle and displacement of the energy that directly effect how it feels to the shooter. A properly fit stock and a recoil pad that compliments the caliber are the starting points. The properly fitted stock will direct the recoil straight backwards into the largest part of the shoulder, without driving the gun upward and into the face or collarbone. When you get up to what feels bad to someone, a sorbothane recoil pad will not only compress but also spread out and slow down the recoil energy. This type of pad is more effective as the amount of recoil increases. Lot's can be done to further limit the recoil such as overall gun weight, muzzle breaks, changes to projectile weight, amount of powder and pistol grip configuration. I fit shotguns all the time. Clients, especially females and new shooter frequently comment that the gun does not kick as much once it is fitted. They are using the same ammo, but their body is providing more surface area to control and disperse recoil and the gun is changed enought to redirect and disperse the recoil through pad, drop of stock, etc. I have seen a small woman hunter who's husband insisted she and their 13 year old son use 300 Win Mag or WSM because he did. Frankly, they both hated the recoil and missed or wounded some game while hunting with me. I offered a 7mm-08 that belongs to my friends daughter and has been trimmed down and set up to reduce recoil. They loved it. Still, the husband was not having it, so I talked him into having their 300's "properly tuned". With stock alterations, a different scope, good recoil pad and a Vais muzzle break they both love their 300's now and claim it kicks like the 7mm-08 I loaned them. So to answer the post directly, I think lots of people can handle a 30-06 and bigger if they take the time to fit and alter the rifle. Somewhere, there is an upper limit to this as they may be able to suddenly handle a 300 WM or even a 375 HH but may never handle more than that. Somewhere in this consideration is that most people do not need a 30-06 or something "bigger" for any hunting they will do.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:49 pm

DRT is a head shot, and usually they are dead before they hit the ground. I've made that shot lots of times with rifles and hand guns, it's the first choice.

If I don't have that shot with certain confidence I aim above the heart and they run unless I break the shoulder. The only humane shot is the head shot. The rest of them hurt like crazy.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:33 pm

On a bench, I have to work hard to shoot my 356 Win. for up to 6 -10 rounds(to shoot best small groups). When I am completely upright in any fashion, I am much better off, but still do not like sustained shooting over 15-20 rounds or so. It's not that I couldn't go on, it's just that it becomes no fun and reloading time is precious. I try to keep it as fun as possible. My normal course is to shoot the Marlin 39a and then a few rounds with the Winchester Big Bore. I like to finish off with the Super Blackhawk....great fun to make those big holes.

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:27 pm

If you hunt long enough, you will see a moose drop dead in tracks with a hit from boxmart 30-30, and a 130lb doe walk away from a solid hit from a .338 WCF. with super ultra expensive bullets. That's the real world. Hunt with what you shoot the most accurately with and put the bullet in the KILL ZONE. Everything else is gunwriter/magazine advertising BS.

J35 · Post by **J35** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:40 pm

olyinaz wrote:
Old Savage wrote:Kind of depends on how much you shoot. Once thought 30-06 recoil was insane but came through much practice to sub inch groups and 150 rds in some sessions - technique at the bench and standing.
Yep. I don't like recoil but one learns to deal with it.

Still, I have an unfired Weatherby .460 (got it from a distressed friend I was helping out) because I know my limits. Until I can load up some .45-70 power rounds for that baby it'll sit unmolested in the back of the safe. You could not pay me to shoot that rifle!

There was is a little gun shop near Ft Lowell and Dodge, when I was working on that side of town I would stop in often, a younger man owned it and told me a Horror story about having hang fires in his 460 off the bench.
I think I had night mares for a week, and it must still bother me as that was near 25 years ago and when anyone mentions a 460 Weatherby I still think of that poor fella waiting for the bang.

--J

J35 · Post by **J35** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:08 pm

Muzzle breaks should be called recoil tamers.

I have shot friends 338 300mags and 300RUM with muzzle breaks off the bench and they were ***** cats actually pleasant to shoot recoil wise, I was amazed .

I imagine they would work on a 0-6 as well.

-- J

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:01 am

J35nut wrote:Muzzle breaks should be called recoil tamers.

I have shot friends 338 300mags and 300RUM with muzzle breaks off the bench and they were ***** cats actually pleasant to shoot recoil wise, I was amazed .

I imagine they would work on a 0-6 as well. -- J

OK, I gotta know: J35 jet engine? J35 jet fighter? J35 boat? J35 guitar? Which is it??!!

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:41 am

J35's are outlawed in this country.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:22 am

Have to disagree with the preceding - not gun writer BS but embedded mistakes in assumption. The advice is certainly good but the analogy ignored that there are many factors that affect the kill and none of them are magic. Range/terminal velocity? Appropriateness of the bullet to the game. What exactly was the hit in the bullet strike and bullet path. For instance super expensive bullets are likely not a good choice for 130 lb deer. Standard 30-30s are not a good choice for long range shooting. The right choices with the right marksmanship will likely produce the best consistent results.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:18 am

J35nut wrote:
olyinaz wrote:
Old Savage wrote:Kind of depends on how much you shoot. Once thought 30-06 recoil was insane but came through much practice to sub inch groups and 150 rds in some sessions - technique at the bench and standing.
Yep. I don't like recoil but one learns to deal with it.

Still, I have an unfired Weatherby .460 (got it from a distressed friend I was helping out) because I know my limits. Until I can load up some .45-70 power rounds for that baby it'll sit unmolested in the back of the safe. You could not pay me to shoot that rifle!
There was is a little gun shop near Ft Lowell and Dodge, when I was working on that side of town I would stop in often, a younger man owned it and told me a Horror story about having hang fires in his 460 off the bench.
I think I had night mares for a week, and it must still bother me as that was near 25 years ago and when anyone mentions a 460 Weatherby I still think of that poor fella waiting for the bang.

--J

Was it a .460 WBY or a .458WinMag? The .458 got a very bad rep early on due to a problem with factory loadings doing that. I had not heard of the .460WBY having that issue. Isn't hang fire a symptom of too light of a charge with slow powder in a magnum cartridge?

In any event, that .460 you have is one that's always been on my wish list in a Mark V. If I were going to try loading light, I would use a case full of trail boss and the Lyman 462560. An old Lyman manual shows 28gr Unique/1396 fps with that bullet, looks like a fun plinker right in that 45-70 range you mentioned. I think the Trail Boss would probably work well just because it wouldn't need a filler, which I'm assuming that 28gr Unique load would.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:16 am

Oly, I would also recommend the 460/45-70 load.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:59 pm

sore shoulder wrote: In any event, that .460 you have is one that's always been on my wish list in a Mark V. If I were going to try loading light, I would use a case full of trail boss and the Lyman 462560. An old Lyman manual shows 28gr Unique/1396 fps with that bullet, looks like a fun plinker right in that 45-70 range you mentioned. I think the Trail Boss would probably work well just because it wouldn't need a filler, which I'm assuming that 28gr Unique load would.

The story about the hang fires wasn't from me, but that IS a problem I'm concerned with on the .460 when going light. Trail Boss is definitely one of the powders I am considering for the project and even Blackhorn 209. Unfortunately Trailboss is unobtainable right now. The latter could be fun if accurate. BOOM - lots of smoke out of the muzzle brake.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:00 pm

Old Savage wrote:Oly, I would also recommend the 460/45-70 load.

It's definitely on my list of things to mess around with when I get some time. The move has put me way behind the power curve. Don't even have my gun/reloading shop set up yet.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:25 pm

olyinaz wrote: The story about the hang fires wasn't from me, but that IS a problem I'm concerned with on the .460 when going light. Trail Boss is definitely one of the powders I am considering for the project and even Blackhorn 209. Unfortunately Trailboss is unobtainable right now. The latter could be fun if accurate. BOOM - lots of smoke out of the muzzle brake.

Heh heh, especially at the public range.

Yea sorry for the confusion, I replied to two posts at the same time and forgot to differentiate.

As I reread that other post, if that was actually a .460WBY, I would be willing to bet they were handloads with not enough powder. A starting load for a 500gr jacketed bullet is 86gr of IMR 3031.

Of course my big bore magnum uses over 200gr of a very slow powder.

Still, a 460 with 28" bull barrel and a brake would be the ticket IMO.