We have a problem here
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We have a problem here
From one trip to the range to the next, the Sharps has gone from shooting 1.5 moa to missing a 3 foot piece of cardboard target backer all but 1 shot out of 5. Only thing different was the primers. Me thinks there must be some fouling in the bore that isn't visible. A couple wet patches and a couple dry patches and they come out clean. Hmmmm.
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Re: We have a problem here
Ouch! What load are you using in it?
Re: We have a problem here
Could be that with the primers with that load, your velocities are less and your bullet is unstable at that velocity. I have a 38-55, wasn't that bad as yours, that the holes were oblong, but as I went up in charge, the bullets straightened out and it shoots very well now. Twist wasn't fast enough for the beginning loads.
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Re: We have a problem here
Yes that's an issue. Save yourself some heartache and grief by boxing it up and shipping it to me ASAP. I'll suffer the frustration of making it shoot properly again so you don't have to.
It may take years for it to happen though...
It may take years for it to happen though...
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
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Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
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Jones for that
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Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
Re: We have a problem here
First go back to the original primers and see what happens and go from there. Only way to troubleshoot is to eliminate each variable in order.
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Re: We have a problem here
BP or smokeless?
Griff,
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There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: We have a problem here
Most likely leaded up, get some lead remover and scrub the heck out of it with a copper brush.
My 76 did that and my 92, they went from good to key holes and two foot groups.
My 76 did that and my 92, they went from good to key holes and two foot groups.
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Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
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USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
Re: We have a problem here
I was using cci br primers last trip to the range, today I used standard lr, and lp primers. The load is 70gr. of 2F Olde Eynsford. Its shoots over 1300 fps, so speed isn't the problem. I can't I imagine going from a benchrest primer to a standard primer would affect anything to this degree. A bronze brush scrubbing is in order. I only been cleaning with patches up till now. Hoping there is fouling there that isn't visible just gazing down the bore....
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Re: We have a problem here
Lube? Did you forget to lube them bullets with a good BP lube? Or did you change lubes? Did you leave lube on the bullets between range trips, i.e. in the box. Did you check to see if the lube on the bullets was still moist and filling the lube grooves between loading sessions?
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
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GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: We have a problem here
If thats down to the primers I will eat last weeks socks!
My money is on poor lube,,,what was it again Ted?
N.
My money is on poor lube,,,what was it again Ted?
N.
Psalm ch8.
Because I wish I could!
Because I wish I could!
Re: We have a problem here
I hope you're right Nath, that's a tough bet to lose.
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Re: We have a problem here
Nath: Had remark for the socks but sounded better in my head that typed. So it will stay in there
Ted: Looks like your bullet has 3 lube grooves. Hope to hear what caused it when you figure it out.
Ted: Looks like your bullet has 3 lube grooves. Hope to hear what caused it when you figure it out.
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250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
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Re: We have a problem here
Nah, I'll beat he does laundry at least once a week! Now, THIS week's socks would be a BET!!!!bulldog1935 wrote:I hope you're right Nath, that's a tough bet to lose.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: We have a problem here
Lol,,,, if was really sure I'd be bettin' on my undies
N
N
Psalm ch8.
Because I wish I could!
Because I wish I could!
Re: We have a problem here
The bullets had lube, but they had been in a box for a couple months. The lube may have lost some of it's magic in storage. I ran a dry bronze brush down the bore, and it pushed out a good bit of powder fouling after I "thought" the bore was clean from using cotton patches and BP solvent. Apparently that wasn't doing the trick. I believe it has to be clean now, but the next trip to the range will tell the rest of the story. Looking down the barrel with a good light, there was no fouling visible, but that brush proved otherwise. So, I suppose it's possible that lube deteriorates over time when exposed to the air? It's a 50-50 beeswax/crisco mix, with a little olive oil. The lube on last remaining 5 bullets from that batch does seem to be different than when I applied it.Griff wrote:Lube? Did you forget to lube them bullets with a good BP lube? Or did you change lubes? Did you leave lube on the bullets between range trips, i.e. in the box. Did you check to see if the lube on the bullets was still moist and filling the lube grooves between loading sessions?
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Re: We have a problem here
Nath, you have to start with the dark stain first.Nath wrote:Lol,,,, if was really sure I'd be bettin' on my undies
N
On to Ted's gun. Primers?--na. Fouling? --It had better be more than what Ted is saying and he says, "Did not look like much until I put a brush in there" or words to that effect.
The gun most likely has the correct twist for the bullet he is shooting.
As the gun is new, I'm sure the crown is OK.
My guess its a combination of fouling and a marginally sized bullet. The fouling will size a marginally sized bullet down further, which in turn, creates more fouling, an undersized bullet and then the tumbling.
Scrub the bore real good, using a brush and then lead wip-a-way cloth and then size your bullets at least a thou. over groove diameter. Shoot, watch for the accuracy falling off after successive rounds, then clean. Don't keep shooting as your making a bad problem worse. Lube is a big thing with black, use SPG and the appropriate wads. I know guys (not me, I don't use black much) who can shoot and shoot with black and the bore stays clean, or somewhat clean--------6
Re: We have a problem here
Ted,,,, if that their gun was mine there is no way I would buy BP solvent.
Hot water is all it needs, in my shotguns it even lifts the lead off the bore.
Hot water and patches job done, a little funnel will help your gun.
If yer lube is good,,,, as in working you should have a wet star on your muzzle, if not needs softening. (This is from memory from reading alot,,,not actual experience!).
Try to run a lubed patch down the bore before shooting too.
Nath.
Hot water is all it needs, in my shotguns it even lifts the lead off the bore.
Hot water and patches job done, a little funnel will help your gun.
If yer lube is good,,,, as in working you should have a wet star on your muzzle, if not needs softening. (This is from memory from reading alot,,,not actual experience!).
Try to run a lubed patch down the bore before shooting too.
Nath.
Psalm ch8.
Because I wish I could!
Because I wish I could!
- vancelw
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Re: We have a problem here
Are you hand-lubing or using a lubri-sizer? I tried a new lube once that was too hard and it pushed my bullets out of round in the sizing die. A marginally sized bullet could now be under-sized or out-of-round. I bought a heater for my lubri-sizer and corrected the issue I had.
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Re: We have a problem here
TedH,
What Nath said, you don't need a "BP Solvent"... just some hot water and a patch. That is, when you're lube is working. I usually run a patch over a nylon bristle brush with hot water running down the barrel as the first part of my cleaning after shooting BP thru any of my guns. After that I use a dry patch on a jag, until it no longer comes out wet, then lastly I run an oiled patch thru the barrel and my gun is clean and ready for storage until the next outing, be it days, months or...?
If your lube is working, as Nath said, you'll have a lube "star" on the muzzle.
And yes, depending on humidity and storage, most BP lubes can loose their lubricity if left where it's too dry. And don't under estimate the ability of A/C to suck the moisture out of the air, and your lube! My BP lube stays in sealed plastic, as do my bullets after I'd put some bullets in the waxed paper box and left them on top of my safe for several months... There's an A/C vent just above the safe and when I went to load those bullets, you could visually tell the lube was ruined, didn't fill the grooves as deeply, and was discolored. It hadn't melted as the inside of the box was as dry as before. This box is one that my bullet maker in CA used, picture a regular flapped box, and another box it goes inside of. Really sturdy, which is why I'm using them 40 years later!
What Nath said, you don't need a "BP Solvent"... just some hot water and a patch. That is, when you're lube is working. I usually run a patch over a nylon bristle brush with hot water running down the barrel as the first part of my cleaning after shooting BP thru any of my guns. After that I use a dry patch on a jag, until it no longer comes out wet, then lastly I run an oiled patch thru the barrel and my gun is clean and ready for storage until the next outing, be it days, months or...?
If your lube is working, as Nath said, you'll have a lube "star" on the muzzle.
And yes, depending on humidity and storage, most BP lubes can loose their lubricity if left where it's too dry. And don't under estimate the ability of A/C to suck the moisture out of the air, and your lube! My BP lube stays in sealed plastic, as do my bullets after I'd put some bullets in the waxed paper box and left them on top of my safe for several months... There's an A/C vent just above the safe and when I went to load those bullets, you could visually tell the lube was ruined, didn't fill the grooves as deeply, and was discolored. It hadn't melted as the inside of the box was as dry as before. This box is one that my bullet maker in CA used, picture a regular flapped box, and another box it goes inside of. Really sturdy, which is why I'm using them 40 years later!
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: We have a problem here
I second the SPG lube advice, as well as hot water and patches. I shoot only BP in my sharps. I haven't experienced the problems you have. Hope the guys ideas, which seem spot on, work for you. Keep us informed.
Mike Johnson,
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
Re: We have a problem here
Griff wrote:TedH,
What Nath said, you don't need a "BP Solvent"... just some hot water and a patch.
If your lube is working, as Nath said, you'll have a lube "star" on the muzzle.
I shouldn't have called it solvent. It's a home made mix recommended by Don, of 50-50 water and RV antifreeze. As far as the bullets, and their size, I shoot them as cast, and hand lube them. I do think the lube on these last ones had deteriorated and contributed to the fouling. Going to mix up a new batch of lube and watch the powder fouling more closely on the next trip to the range.
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Re: We have a problem here
Ted,
I use a nearly identical lube for BP, and I found it would "shrink" over time. I added about 10% pure lanolin to it, and it says soft and moist now.
Glenn
I use a nearly identical lube for BP, and I found it would "shrink" over time. I added about 10% pure lanolin to it, and it says soft and moist now.
Glenn
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Re: We have a problem here
No disrepect to Don, but, I've never found a better substitute for just plain hot tap water in cleaning my BP guns. Just don't use a petroleum lube afterwards... I use a Ballistol, & wipe out any excess before shooting, and I'm good to go. I guess if you have a lot of minerals in your water, it could alter that...
Here's a picture of the box I store my Sharp's bullet in...
If I keep up in the house, it's usually not a problem, but... I do need to keep them away from that A/C vent.
Here's a picture of the box I store my Sharp's bullet in...
If I keep up in the house, it's usually not a problem, but... I do need to keep them away from that A/C vent.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: We have a problem here
The first thing I check when a gun goes suddenly bad like that is the sights. It is amazing how often something has shifted, loosened, etc.
- vancelw
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Re: We have a problem here
Sights don't make the bullet impact sidewaysBAGTIC wrote:The first thing I check when a gun goes suddenly bad like that is the sights. It is amazing how often something has shifted, loosened, etc.
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