30WCF and 30/30 Win Articles

[3leggedturtle]

In the new Handloader and Backwoodsman magazines I happened to notice yesterday. If any of you are interested in them. Lately I am beginning to think the 30/30 is the poor man's 32/20. I.E. it can be bought cheaper than a decent Model 92 and loaded with the Lee Soupcan boolit with a bunch of powders from 800fps to 1800fps easily and with good accuracy to boot. I like my 25/20 '92, but my lust for a 32WCF is always there

[ollogger]

I had some 32-20s & I miss them, But with the little Lee bullet & one 94 that shoots them
like a laser im not missing them to much, and really like the 30-30 when picking up brass
out of the grass!!! I do like my 25-20 but would swap it for a 32-20 in a heart beat


ollogger

[1894cfan]

If anybody here don't have cast lead bullets, Midway has Hornady 86gr and 90gr jacketed bullets that work pretty good in 30WCF (.30cal pistol bullet catigory). HTH

[Sixgun]

Sure, you can take any 32-20, 32 mag, 327 bullet and load it in a 30-30 case with 6 or 7 grains of Unique and presto, instant 32-20! Its just a little hard jamming 15 of those in a '94 mag.

Every man, worthy of himself, should have a continuous supply of Handloader & Rifle magazines coming in.-------6

[w30wcf]

It's historic as well. From 1896-1924 Winchester actually offered factory loaded "Short Range" cartridges "For small game where the more powerful cartridge is not necessary." IN effect they were a "poor man's .32-20" as they replicated standard .32-20 performance.

Winchester recognized the benefit and increased versatility that a factory loading for small game would offer, since the average family would have to sacrifice at least a month’s pay to buy just one rifle, and that one rifle was just about all that most families could afford.

With his or her magazine full of these .30 W.C.F. “Short Range” rounds, hunters could use their big game rifles to harvest turkeys, squirrels and other small game animals with no meat loss. Then, if bigger game was expected to be encountered, a change to the standard .30 W.C.F. cartridge would handle that situation.

In that bygone era when mother nature provided the meat supply, the soft spoken report of the .30 W.C.F. "Short Range" cartridge meant additional sustenance for many families.


100 gr - 1896-1903 / 117 gr. 1904-1924

w30wcf

[Sixgun]

Good 'ole Jack Sr.! well done, Sir

You are right about one thing, back in the day, the regular guy had 3 guns, if he was lucky, and they were all for the entire family. A .22, deer rifle and a shotgun. My father grew up in the mountains of western Pennsylvania and they had one gun, a Savage 219, that had a 30-30 barrel and a 12 ga. barrel.

I remember asking him if he ever heard "lots of shooting" to which he replied, "You only heard an occasional shot, no one had money to blast away like you guys do today." I told him it was El Levy's direction to save all of the collectors ammo for you and I to enjoy at a later date. ----6

[Griff]

"Poor man's 32-20?" Seriously? The 30WCF is the wide receiver to the 32WCF tight end. Fleeter, more area coverage, geberally far more capable. Able to do anything its little brother can, at greater distance. The 32WCF is nice, comes in a trim little package, but the 30WCF is probably STILL, the best bargain in firearms history.

[Charles]

The 30-06 is the poor mans .308,30-40, 300 savage, 30-30, 32-20 and a whole bunch of other calibers. We have known this for 100 years. The man with good 30-06 has an arsenal at his disposal.

[hfcable]

Good 'ole Jack Sr.! well done, Sir

You are right about one thing, back in the day, the regular guy had 3 guns, if he was lucky, and they were all for the entire family. A .22, deer rifle and a shotgun. My father grew up in the mountains of western Pennsylvania and they had one gun, a Savage 219, that had a 30-30 barrel and a 12 ga. barrel.

I remember asking him if he ever heard "lots of shooting" to which he replied, "You only heard an occasional shot, no one had money to blast away like you guys do today." I told him it was El Levy's direction to save all of the collectors ammo for you and I to enjoy at a later date. ----6

that 219 is nice! my first personally owned centerfire was a 219 in 30/30, beautiful little well balanced nice pointing rifle, and very accurate. the gun was short length overall even with a 26" barrel, and one could load pointy bullets to your hearts content. shouldnt have let it go but needed money in college.

finally got another one, and it has the 30/30 barrel and a 16 ga barrel with polychoke with it. that one gun is a serious survival piece by itself !

[cshold]

It's historic as well. From 1896-1924 Winchester actually offered factory loaded "Short Range" cartridges "For small game where the more powerful cartridge is not necessary." IN effect they were a "poor man's .32-20" as they replicated standard .32-20 performance.

Winchester recognized the benefit and increased versatility that a factory loading for small game would offer, since the average family would have to sacrifice at least a month’s pay to buy just one rifle, and that one rifle was just about all that most families could afford.

With his or her magazine full of these .30 W.C.F. “Short Range” rounds, hunters could use their big game rifles to harvest turkeys, squirrels and other small game animals with no meat loss. Then, if bigger game was expected to be encountered, a change to the standard .30 W.C.F. cartridge would handle that situation.

In that bygone era when mother nature provided the meat supply, the soft spoken report of the .30 W.C.F. "Short Range" cartridge meant additional sustenance for many families.


100 gr - 1896-1903 / 117 gr. 1904-1924

w30wcf

So "why" then did Winchester decide there was a need for the 25-35 WCF?

[Model 52B]

It's all a matter of perspective.

You know there were certainly old codgers in 1894 who were insisting that there was darn little their .36 or .45 caliber Pennsylvania rifle could not take efficiently. And they were equally correct.

----

A precision .308 makes a fine varmint rifle, especially on those long shots of 400 plus yards, but out to 100 yards or so an accurate .22 LR works fine, and a .223 is just as effective and a lot more cost effective out to about 300-350 yards. All work, and all have a sweet spot where they are "best".

The .30-30 is no different. The Model 94 in .30-30 is perhaps the best 150 yards and under deer combination ever developed - light, handy, reliable, and effective.

On the other hand, a Model 94 in .38-55 or it's younger brother the .375 Win is just as effective on deer with more potential for heavier bullets and it's more efficient with cast bullets, giving up absolutely nothing in velocity. It's also very pleasant to plink with or take smaller game with light loads using maybe 9-10grs of unique and a 250 gr bullet.

Alternatively, a Model 92 in .45 Colt is hard to beat in the same 150 yards and under category as the .30-30 as it is hard hitting and flat enough shooting in 28,000-32,000 psi "Ruger Only" loads with bullets up to 300 grains or so. It's also an inch and a half shorter in any given barrel length, has much greater magazine capacity with a full length magazine in any given barrel length, and is even lighter, handier and smoother cycling than a Model 94. And it can be loaded way down for very light loads with a pinch of red dot and a 200-250 gr bullet.

In short, my .30-30 gets used a lot less than it used to now that it lives with a Model 94 in .375 Wn and a.38-55 and a Model 92 in .45 Colt.

[hfcable]

well, all very good points. in fact i have been considering attaching some devices to the back of my 4wheeler.....well sorta like golf bags, then taking a whole slew of lever guns with me each time i go out......

so if i spot game, then i just climb down and pick out the right tool, choosing between the 218 bee, or the 25/35, or 25/36, or maybe the 256, or 30 wcf or 30 carbine, or the 7/30 waters, or if its large enough the 405 or the 45/70. 45/90 or even the 50/95 .... or well, the 307 and the 356 or good choices too, and my 38/55 has yet to let me down, and neither has the 444; and there is lots of times the 25/20 or 32/20 seem just right, and i have used 44/40s and 44 mags, and 45 colts, and of course the 357 is versatile. and.....
well maybe i need a caddy and a second 4 wheeler,.

hmmm, i kinda got rhapsodic and lost and dang it the game may have gotten away, and i cant find that 219 zipper, and someday i have got to use the 56/52 spencer, and the 44 evans for that matter..

[tman]

Shame that ammo companies won't put out a reduced small game load. The 30WCF is more versatile than ever with the increased range leverevoultion flex points and Buffaloe bore's 190 grain Bear load. Like to see a short range factory load for turkey.

[JerryB]

Doc Cable ain't it so true. Life is just full of decisions one after another tssk tssk tssk. But we must struggle on and do right by each loving and needy little rifle. I just might put some bigger wheels on my gun cart from CAS.

[hfcable]

Doc Cable ain't it so true. Life is just full of decisions one after another tssk tssk tssk. But we must struggle on and do right by each loving and needy little rifle. I just might put some bigger wheels on my gun cart from CAS.

+1 that is the spirit

[Griff]

well, all very good points. in fact i have been considering attaching some devices to the back of my 4wheeler.....well sorta like golf bags, then taking a whole slew of lever guns with me each time i go out......

Doc Cable ain't it so true. Life is just full of decisions one after another tssk tssk tssk. But we must struggle on and do right by each loving and needy little rifle. I just might put some bigger wheels on my gun cart from CAS.

+1 that is the spirit

It's why I drive a 1-ton 4-dr dually! Range days require at least 2 hours to load up guns, ammo & cleaning equip.; & that's just to drive out to my pasture! I try to pare that down when I go to a public range, having to trek back & forth to the truck to get another gun or different ammo takes too much time!

[Model 52B]

You're missing the point, and probably working hard to do it as well.

In my case I take my .375 Win as with light loads using Unique it's a great plinking rifle and with full bore loads its good for deer, black bear and elk. So it's replaced a couple rifles, one of them being my .30-30.

The .45 Colt in a Model 92 has almost as much flexibility - more than the .30-30.

[Griff]

The 30-06 is the poor mans .308,30-40, 300 savage, 30-30, 32-20 and a whole bunch of other calibers. We have known this for 100 years. The man with good 30-06 has an arsenal at his disposal.

Ok, from that perspective, I understand the comment.

You're missing the point, and probably working hard to do it as well.
In my case I take my .375 Win as with light loads using Unique it's a great plinking rifle and with full bore loads its good for deer, black bear and elk. So it's replaced a couple rifles, one of them being my .30-30.
The .45 Colt in a Model 92 has almost as much flexibility - more than the .30-30.

No, I "get" it. Don't subscibe, as I have a different philosophy. I happen to enjoy their uniqueness. I have 24 Winchester .30-30s in my safe, in 3 major configurations, and maybe a ½ dozen minor differences in barrels, sights and stocks, etc. Some I shoot, most are just "retired" but, shot occasionally. Plus 6 more receivers in various stages of completion, all destined to be .30-30s. It didn't happen overnight or on purpose. A couple have long stories attached to them; others, it was simply "I haven't seen one like that", or "I don't have one that vintage...!"

I have 5 .45 Colt rifles (well, 4 + one that I'm trying to modify to run both 45Colt AND Cowboy45Special), but they're all for different purposes; to fit certain periods for SASS personas, and for specific competitions. Only two of which are multi-tasking, competition & hunting guns. Sorta like why I have 3 different 12ga. barrels for my 870. Different purposes. Sorta like why I have 2 Rem 700s in 7mmRM, one with a hunting weight barrel, and one sporting a target weight. It's why I'm building a 2nd .223 AR. But, I'll admit, if I decide the 300AAC Blackout is also desired, I'll just build or buy an upper!

[JohndeFresno]

Interesting stuff, 3 Legs and all. Thanks!

[Canuck Bob]

You could consider my method. I bought a 32-20 Winoku 92, not a perfect solution but a fine rifle, but decided the old fashion and underpowered 30-30 was not for me. My 94 is a considerably more effective and modern 32 Special.

On the family homestead from the early 30s in Alberta the gun of choice was a .22. They were poor enough that a 22 and a moose rifle was the limit. 5 shots had better be five Prairie Chickens. Ammo money came from fur usually caught in a snare as traps were expensive. They had a leveraction of some type pre war. I found the rusted carcass in a junk pile. After WW2 most farmers sported a Lee Enfield and there was a tremendous variety of ammo at one point. From trapper loads, seal loads, and bears. I remember the most common was a Dominion or CIL 215 grain round nose kept handy for marauding black bears or a moose in the wheat.