OT - Botched work, I could just cry. UPDATE

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:56 pm

I tooK my birthday Marlin MR-7 to the local shop three weeks ago to have the barrel drilled and tapped for the iron sights.

I got the rifle back today and the sights are crooked. Both the front and the rear tilt badly to the right.

There is no excuse for this. What the hell is the problem with people that they can't line things up. The scope bases are square, all the gunsmith had to do is use them to line the iron sights up. But no, not a chance. Now I'm put in the position that I have to take the gun back and complain. As it sits now with the sights as crooked as they are, I cannot use them.

I'm at my wits end. Is there no gunsmith that can do the job right the first time? The trouble is, the local shop sends the guns out to be done, so I can't talk to the grease monkey that botched this job up.
Not to mention the rifle reeks of cigarette smoke. I'm going to have to Lysol it before I can use it. As far as I'm concerned it's ruined. To fix this will require more holes to be drilled and tapped and that can't be good for the barrel.

Sorry about the rant, but I needed to get this off my chest. Something good has just been ruined and I'm in a upset off mood because of it.

Joe

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:06 pm

That Blows!!!!

My Dad had that happen with a Savage 99G/ 250-3000. Guy drilled the holes off center and "F'd" up a really nice rifle.

Sorry Joe. There's some real butchers out there!!

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:08 pm

Joe,

That sucks.
I hope I'm never in the same position but if I am i'd bring it back to the smith & demand he send it back to marlin to be rebarelled.

thats truly unacceptable.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:13 pm

One telephone call from your attorney to the owner of the shop. "Hi, I'm James Blowhard, attorney for Joe Miller whose firearm your shop totally screwed up. Tell me what you are going to do to make it right with Mr. Miller". You will have a new rifle before sundown.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:14 pm

I feel for ya. I would complain, and ask for a replacement. They need to pay attention more. Hope it gets resolved in good process.

We eat stuff alot at work. We even have a "Cherish the Customer" section for stuff we got back that we couldn't figure out; but we like the customer and want more business in the future, so we eat it anyway. But, we got sales in the hundreds of millions making it easier to absorb stuff like that.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:22 pm

Beware..Anyone can call themself a Gun Smith...I had a Mod 70 Win 3006..Target Rifle...Wanted different scope mounts...Took it to a 'smith"..Of course I didn't notice anything wrong at first..But when I got home I put the bolt in it and the trouble began.. The bolt wouldn't go in past the bridge.. I thought there must be a burr in one of the holes...But it turned out the "smith" had bent the bridge!! Then I noticed the holes drilled off center to boot!.. I was so PO'd I didn't trust myself to go back in look the sorry fool in the eye... I parted it out on flea bay..Apex barrel & all..I feel for you Joe..

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:28 pm

I feel for you friend.

Not everyone who calls themselves a gunsmith has any sense of pride in his work.

I only take my guns to guys I know like Hamilton Bowen, John or Dustin Linebaugh, Milt Sparks......people who KNOW why I take my guns to them and I can trust to do the right thing.

gon2shoot · Post by **gon2shoot** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:32 pm

Joe, sorry for your troubles.
I've got a couple nice guns I'd like to have some work done on, but have been sitting on them for that very reason.

I " tinker" but am in no way a gunsmith. I hope to get well aquainted with a smith, but untill then I'll wait.

If they screwed up yer gun givem hell, may not help but you'll feel better

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:39 pm

Joe... I feel your pain...I truly do. My experience with gunsmiths has on the whole been very bad. Big name or no name gunsmith doesn't seem to make a difference. I had Clark totaly destroy a new Colt Govt. Model. I sent it back three times and each time it came back with another new problem. I could tell horror story after horror story.

That is why I do most of my gun work myself. The vast majority of gun work is no more difficult that tuning up a car. It is very simple stuff. Anybody can drill and tap a hole in the right place with a little know how and the patience to do it right.

Gunsmiths work with one eye on the clock and cut corners to speed up the job. They are trying to make a living and quite often the work suffers. They know how to do it right, they just don't take the time to do it right.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:53 pm

A good smith is near impossible to find. I have a scope mount hole filler screw stuck in my Marlin .35 Remington right now. I'm going to have to take it somewere to get it removed.

I'd just send the MR-7 back to Marlin and have it rebarreled. If I may be so bold, why did you want sights on a bolt action rifle??

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:54 pm

Take it back to the shop Joe, let them deal with the smith. However let them know you will not accept another set of holes in the barrel. If it requuires a new rifle, so be it. And don't let the shop who acted as middle man try to pass the buck. They took your money, it's their smith, they can deal with him. Otherwise take the shop to small claims. New rifle, cost of work done on old rifle, time, and filing the claim.

Papa · Post by **Papa** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:03 pm

Okay Joe, that settles it! Your going to have to sell out and move down here to the Nashville area with me, and Jeff, and Derek, and a half dozen others and start enjoying life again

Real sorry to hear about the MR-7 though

Papa

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:08 pm

The gun shop owner may not be in tomorrow. He told me he was going to make a run to his distributor and would not be back till late. So it might be Saturday before I can take it back. But take it back I will.

And I will not accept it back till it's fixed.

The Marlin MR-7 is discontinued. Has been since the late 90's. Marlin didn't have all the sights in stock, I had to get the rear set from Numrich.

As for why I wanted iron sights on my bolt gun, it's simple. A rifle without iron sights is a scope failure waiting to happen. Scopes fail, simple as that. I don't trust them. I want irons as a back up.

I'm not sure how this will be dealt with, but I'll let you know.

Joe

Triggernosis · Post by **Triggernosis** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:09 pm

2ndovc wrote:There's some real butchers out there!!

I personally believe that 95% of the so-called "gunsmiths" are simply gun butchers these days...

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:13 pm

I wish you success in resolving this to your satisfaction.

That sux.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:14 pm

sore shoulder wrote:Take it back to the shop Joe, let them deal with the smith. However let them know you will not accept another set of holes in the barrel. If it requuires a new rifle, so be it. And don't let the shop who acted as middle man try to pass the buck. They took your money, it's their smith, they can deal with him. Otherwise take the shop to small claims. New rifle, cost of work done on old rifle, time, and filing the claim.

I agree. People should be accountable to do a reasonable job - perfection no, but at least 'decent' - I've had bad stuff done by gunsmiths, and unfortunately, until they do some work for you, you don't know their quality. Best take them something easy and on a gun you're not picky about, and see the detail of their workmanship. Even how they put a scope mount on (or not) can obviously tell you their level of skill or integrity - just do it first with a crappy gun; it will be worth it to avoid your favorite one ruined.

I have a Bushmaster barrel I'm eventually going to have to send to the factory to get the 'muzzle brake' I had to have 'permanently affixed' during the 'assault weapon' ban re-done or at least replaced by a flash suppressor or something. The local 'smith didn't do the install even as well as I could have done it on a bad day...

Sometimes I try 'new' stuff by buying the tool from Brownell's and if I have to, experimenting on bar stock or an old gun or gun part, first. I find that sometimes it really isn't as hard as I thought if you have the right tool(s), and sometimes the tools cost little enough to beat the 'smith charges, especially if you'll use them for future projects, or can sell them to another gun owner who wants to do the same project on his gun. Or you could go in together on a tool with a couple other guys . (I did that with a bulldozer once

- but never used it on a gun, thankfully)

I also just dislike having a gun 'out there' in 'smith-land, or UPS-land, and not at home; not that I am afraid I'll 'need' it or even it will get lost or damaged; it's just one MORE thing to keep track of, remember to check on, and deal with.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:16 pm

I'd send it back to marlin and have it rebarrelled, then send the bill to the idiot who screwed it up. Maybe you could talk marlin into putting on sights if you sent them in?

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:18 pm

Joe,

I sent you a PM.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:23 pm

Sorry to hear about it Joe. I've had gunsmith problems also. One old guy was near deaf, and kept making mistakes on what I asked for, so I got in the habit of making a note and taping it to the stock when I took it in. Good habit.

I didnt ahere to the habit when I took an orignal Remington rolling block 22 to a guy in Cody to have a tang sight put on the gun. I had already had a pair of screws made for the sight that matched the holes in the gun. all it needed was one of the holes in the tang sight lengthened slightly to match the hole spacing on the rolling block, and screwed on. The guy called me a few days later and said, "Your trigger job is done"......"My what?"...."Your trigger job is done, you can come pick it up"...."I didnt ask for a trigger job, we were putting a tang sight on"

He DID put the tang sight on, but made another unmatched screw, and did a "trigger job" that ruined the gun and charged me for the work. It caught on the half cock notch when the trigger was pulled from full cock. I had ALREADY paid to have a very good trigger job done on it, and had the barrel relined, since it was pitted and the chamber eroded. It shot absolutley beautifully.

I was extremely PO'd. I didnt want to start a fight in the well known gun making business he worked at. I've not been able to shoot the gun since that happened 5 years ago. So far, I haven't found anyone reliable enough to fix what he did. I'm NOT taking it back to someone that did such a butcher job, and is supposed to know about old guns. When a forum member came to town to buy some of this guys products, I just stayed out in the truck and waited.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:35 pm

First thing I thought about was that .22 of yours when I read J

e's post.

Comal Forge · Post by **Comal Forge** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:21 pm

I'm very sorry about your bad experience. It's really sad but I've had mighty poor luck finding good gunsmiths - which is why I started doing my own work long ago. I figured if it got screwed up then nobody was to blame but me.

A few years ago, I wanted to have a full choke on an old Stevens opened up to modified. I took it to a supposedly reputable local gunsmith who kept promising to do it week after week. I finally went in after about 60 days and asked for the barrel. When he brought it out, it had rusted from where he'd left it near the water heater in the shop. I also noticed that all of the stuff I'd seen stacked around the shop during my first visit had not moved. He talked a good story but it looked like he just piddled and never accomplished very much - he is now out of business...

I took the barrel and went into the shop where I worked at the time. The toolmaker and I chucked it into the 4-jaw on the big lathe, set up a boring bar and did the work. The barrel got bead blasted and reblued then went back on the gun. My son now uses it every dove season.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:22 pm

Joe, If the sights are aligned and on the same plane, and tilting to the right as seen by the shooter, then the barrel needs to be turned in a little untill they are standing straight up, not replaced. This will require a couple thousandths to be removed from the rear of the barrel at the sholder that abuts the reciever face.
There are lots of real great gunsmiths out there. A real GREAT one is near you. Penrod Precision in Indianappolis (sp?) does just super work. You should be able to find his add in most of the gun rags like Rifle,Handloader etc. Buck Penrod is a fine smith and shooter.
Darrel Holland in Oregon is another pro who does great work.
They all can make a mistake though,give him a chance to make it right.
I had Darrel Hollend barrel a benchrest rifle for me that was supposed to have a tight neck chamber cut into my new Krieger match barrel. It came back with a standard neck chamber. I took a chamber cast and called Darrel. He fell all over himself apologizing after he found his reamers were in the wrong boxes. He had to set the barrel back 3/8" and rechamber. Took 3 days and is one of the best shooting rifles I own.
Good luck!!

jazman · Post by **jazman** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:59 pm

Sorry to hear this Joe. Take it back and have them make it right. Jim

QuarterChoke · Post by **QuarterChoke** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:17 am

Joe,
I would be very reluctant to return to the same butcher who has already demonstrated his lack of ability. You don't need to drill more holes to correct this problem as there are a number of solder-on iron sights that will go over the holes. Soldering on sights will require a blue job, but at least the job will look good. Google "gunsmith, illinois" and see who is in your area. Call up and talk to them. Explain your problem and what you want done. If they don't sound right, hang up. You should be able to correct this so that it never looks like anything bad happened, but it will cost some money. You will likely have to write it off to education.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:20 am

J Miller wrote:
I'm about ready to just quit the shooting sports altogether. Just call the cops and turn them all in and give it up.
Joe

Whoa! Joe - buddy - step back from the edge. It will be alright. It is a long way down - don't jump - DON'T JUMP!

Scared me there. I know it stinks. Been there. It is not just "gunsmiths"; many in our society simoly have no pride in their work nor workmanship. It is a shame and will be part of our undoing.

Turn this around into something positive. Take it back and rip the store a new one. You are obviously a good customer - they should bend over backwards to make it right. I'm thinking a new gun if that one has no family attachment - it will be hard to set it right. Keep us posted!!!

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:26 am

Sorry to hear about the problem Joe.

There are gunsmiths and there are machinists that think they are.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:44 am

Chuck 100 yd wrote:Joe, If the sights are aligned and on the same plane, and tilting to the right as seen by the shooter, then the barrel needs to be turned in a little untill they are standing straight up, not replaced. This will require a couple thousandths to be removed from the rear of the barrel at the sholder that abuts the reciever face.
There are lots of real great gunsmiths out there. A real GREAT one is near you. Penrod Precision in Indianappolis (sp?) does just super work. You should be able to find his add in most of the gun rags like Rifle,Handloader etc. Buck Penrod is a fine smith and shooter.
Darrel Holland in Oregon is another pro who does great work.
They all can make a mistake though,give him a chance to make it right.
I had Darrel Hollend barrel a benchrest rifle for me that was supposed to have a tight neck chamber cut into my new Krieger match barrel. It came back with a standard neck chamber. I took a chamber cast and called Darrel. He fell all over himself apologizing after he found his reamers were in the wrong boxes. He had to set the barrel back 3/8" and rechamber. Took 3 days and is one of the best shooting rifles I own.
Good luck!!

Chuck,
This is virtually a new gun. Or was. The barrel does NOT need to be turned it was fine BEFORE the holes were drilled wrong. Turning the barrel in at this point would tighten up the head space and cause more troubles.

QuarterChoke wrote: Joe,
I would be very reluctant to return to the same butcher who has already demonstrated his lack of ability. You don't need to drill more holes to correct this problem as there are a number of solder-on iron sights that will go over the holes. Soldering on sights will require a blue job, but at least the job will look good. Google "gunsmith, illinois" and see who is in your area. Call up and talk to them. Explain your problem and what you want done. If they don't sound right, hang up. You should be able to correct this so that it never looks like anything bad happened, but it will cost some money. You will likely have to write it off to education.

I am very reluctant to do so. But I feel that I need to at least discuss it with the shop owner. If he doesn't want to make it right, or cops an attitude then I'll have to go to plan B.
I have to admit I don't have a good feeling about the outcome of this. So far, since I've been in IL, nothing firearms related has worked out right. I have checked the other local gunsmiths and decided to take it to this guy.
I didn't want to ship it out, I really wanted to avoid doing that.

Ysabel Kid,
Check my first post. I've calmed down a bit since last night.

Joe

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:46 am

J Miller wrote: Ysabel Kid,
Check my first post. I've calmed down a bit since last night.
Joe

Joe - I know, I'm late to the thread, but your original quote just scared the heck out of me!

I know they don't make that model any longer as well. Hopefully they will be able to do you right - another set of holes is not the correct answer.

Good luck my friend!

Mike Hunter · Post by **Mike Hunter** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:04 am

Thereâ€™s an old saying: an amateur keeps practicing until he gets it right, an expert keeps practicing until he canâ€™t get it wrong.

Mike Hunter
www.Hunterrestorations.com

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:47 am

I called the gunshop this morning and caught the owner. When I told him the sights were tilted he said: "Can't be". I said, yes they are. He then said if I could get there in a hurry the gunsmith would be there and I could talk to him. So I went down there and talked to the gunsmith.
He looked at the rifle and verified the sights were tilted. Then proceeded to tell me about the Forster hole drilling jig he used. How the barrel was held in V-blocks, how the bottom of the receiver was used to level the action and index the drill fixtures. And then how if he tried again it would come out with the same result. At that point he said it was most likely the receiver that was off because his jig was good and he did it as per the instructions.
He stated that he did not want to drill any more holes in the barrel and I said I didn't want that either.
His last comment was: "I don't know what I can do for you". Well, I could have pitched a fit, could have ranted and raved, and it would have been for naught. The prevailing attitude was screw you it's not my fault.

So, now I have more choices to make. None of them to my liking.
I can say one thing for positive; I will never spend one more cent in that store, or at his ranges, or with this gunsmith.

The one thing I've learned in my mechanical career is not to blindly rely on tools, or jigs, to line things up. God gave me too eyes and a brain and I always look at things from several angles. This gun butcher should know that and should have verified visually that the sights would be straight and compensated if the bottom of the receiver was off.

Live and learn I guess.

Now my ruined rifle goes back in it's case all the way back to the rear of the closet to be hopefully forgotten.

Joe

mohavesam · Post by **mohavesam** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:59 am

Is it too much to expect people to understand what they sign?

ALWAYS write across the face of a work-performed contract words to the intent of:
"Work to be completed & paid for only upon the final approval of the customer".

Only then do you hold the upper hand when someone is working on your property.

No slam meant but... I do hope you have the stones to request - in writing - the barrel be replaced, at a minimum. You paid for the job to be performed correctly, not for the job to be performed "as best the jig could do". BTW, the gun shop, not necessarily the "smith", owes you the remedy.

If otherwise, send me the rifle and I'll send you $50. It's a better offer than willfully "forgetting about it".

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:02 am

You fellows seem to be saying "modern" gunsmiths are more like auto mechanics now days. High prices, poor work. I am glad I can do my own work. The main reason I left the trade was that I couldn't make enough money to support my family. And I worked in the largest shop in San Diego in the 50's-60's. 'Smiths now days charge $50.00 an hour or more. That should be more than enough to be able to do a good job and make a profit. My two years of training at a gunsmithing school only gave me basic knowledge, and they still do. I learned the trade from and old time 'smith where I worked. I do admit that D @ T'ing a barrel for sights was one of my least favorite jobs. Like auto mechanics, trade schools only give you very basic knowledge. You need years of practical experience to be a GOOD 'smith. Perhaps that is why the old time English trades had 5,6, and 7 year apprenticeships. Don't be afraid to ask about your 'smiths experience before you have him do your work.

41_Marlin · Post by **41_Marlin** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:10 am

Find a needy kid and give it to them.

They will be tickled, you won't need to look at it anymore.

I've done it in the past, always makes me happy.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:24 am

J Miller wrote:Then proceeded to tell me about the Forster hole drilling jig he used. How the barrel was held in V-blocks, how the bottom of the receiver was used to level the action and index the drill fixtures. And then how if he tried again it would come out with the same result. At that point he said it was most likely the receiver that was off because his jig was good and he did it as per the instructions.
He stated that he did not want to drill any more holes in the barrel and I said I didn't want that either.
His last comment was: "I don't know what I can do for you". Joe

He has no evidence it's your reciever other than his opinion. His jig could be off also. Regardless, making sure the sights are square to the bore is without question far more important than the jig being square to the receiver, so basically he told you he does not do thorough work, doesn't care or realize that what you asked for were sights mounted correctly, and does not stand behind his work. And any smith that would not verify sight alignment before drilling is not a gunsmith, he's a hack, and now he's a thief because he took your money and did not provide the service requested. I would smear him all over for that behavior alone. He knows in his heart he can shim that jig or improvise any number of ways, he just was not thorough and knows it, and he screwed up, but he has no character.

Regardless J

e, none of this is your problem, it's the responsibility of the shop that sent your rifle out to be worked on, and they can be held liable for whatever it costs you to make it right, even if that means a new rifle. I would make one more attempt at giving the shop owner the chance to make it right, now that he knows for sure the sights are not correct.

Let him know if he does not make it right, the next time you contact him will be with a subpeona. Perhaos at this point, if you have an attorney, a phone call from him would help. I would also get second opinions in writing as to how the reciever can be drilled with respect to an out of square reciever, verification that the sights are indeed out of square and useless, and if possible have a competent smith verify the trueness of yours, even though that is irrelevant. Write down the details of the conversation with the smith and shop owner while they are still fresh in your mind and date it.

In conclusion it's apparent that neither the shop owner, nor the hacksmith, have any integrity as neither offered you any options to fix your now ruined rifle. Also, the fact that the smith didn't have anything but a lame excuse tells me he's a liar, or incompetent. Feel free to forward this to the smith if you like J

e.

I'm angry on your behalf, just as I would be any other brother who is being shafted.

Also, I think it's only fair you post the name of the shop and smith as a warning to others. Of course wait until you are sure the shop is not going to make it right and you have to resort to litigation.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:25 am

Joe -

I'm late to the thread but here's an idea.

Have the holes that were drilled and tapped for the sights filled in (welded) and then have the sight job redone by a competent gunsmith -- preferably the one you choose to do the weld job.

You are like me in that you don't like to ship a gun out but sometimes, that's the only option we have in order to find a competent gunsmith.

Although he works primarily on lever action rifles, I'm wondering if Steve of Steve's Gunz couldn't help you out with this.

It's a darn shame to have to relegate a great rifle to the back recesses of a gun cabinet.

Oh, one option may be to take the messed up sights off and insted of redrilling and tapping the barrel or welding/filling the holes have a set of sights silver-soldered on. If done correctly, they should cover the mis-drilled holes. Again, Steve may be able to help you with thos or I'd bet he could turn you toward someone that can.

Idiot · Post by **Idiot** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:26 am

WHILE I WAS TYPING YOU WERE VISITING THE GUNSMITH - SO SOME OF WHAT IS OFFERED BELOW IS OBSOLETE. DON'T GIVE UP. THEY WRECKED IT - THEY SHOULD FIX IT.

J Miller, I've been in a similar situation. Here are a couple things to keep in mind:

Gun shops and gunsmiths usually have insurance to cover replacement costs of firearms they destroy in the process of working on them.

Only a visit and discussion with the shop owner will resolve this situation.

It is impossible to reverse the damage - it can only be fixed. Chuck 100 yd offered a very viable, and possibly the best, solution. If the sights are aligned, turning the barrel in would fix the problem. This of course would require a bit of reamer work to make sure the head space is correct. It may even require some of the breach end of the barrel to be shaved off. Both are routine and easy to do. This approach might even result in a more accurate rifle if done right. One cannot say "no, no, no, the gun was new and I want it new again" and expect it to happen. That is impossible. It must be fixed because it cannot be undone.

As long as you have a good action and stock, the gun can be returned to its original condition with a new barrel. BTW, the standard fix for a problem like this is barrel replacement.

I don't think Marlin made the barrels for this rifle. I'm pretty certain they bought them from a run-of-the-mill barrel supplier. Most barrels on most mass produced rifles cost the manufacture less than $25 a barrel. So, the barrel could probably be replaced very easily. Of course, re-bluing of the entire gun would be necessary.

Gunsmiths make mistakes - even on simple jobs. Good gunsmiths never let those mistakes leave the shop. You will need to access whether or not this gunsmith can be trusted to perform any of the options available to you.

The gun shop that took your money is responsible. He must make it right. He will likely insist that his gunsmith fix it. However, you can tell him that you no longer trust his gunsmith and that you will ship the gun to Marlin (or some other smith) to have them fix it and that he will pay the bill. You have to determine how far you want to take this and what financial risk you're willing to accept.

I know you've been wanting this model rifle for a long time and it's too bad this happened. But it can be fixed. A gunsmith friend once told me after I asked him if he could do a particular job - "sure I can do it, it's just metal and wood." It can be fixed.

WCF3030 · Post by **WCF3030** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:40 am

41_Marlin wrote:Find a needy kid and give it to them.

They will be tickled, you won't need to look at it anymore.

I've done it in the past, always makes me happy.

I liked that one best.
While your at it tell everyone that will listen how crappy that gunsmith is.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:48 am

I have several options open to me. However a suit is not one of them. It really isn't worth the effort.
Contacting the owner again is not going to be productive. I've done business with this shop since I moved to IL in '99. I know that without a lawyer or a suit all I will get is attitude.
Lawyers cost money. I don't have money like that.

Contacting Steve is on my list of "to do's". After all is said and done I wouldn't let the butcher that messed it up touch it again. That would be stupid. And I'm not stupid.

As for identifying the store, that is no problem:

Bullet Express
4885 Industrial Dr.
Springfield, IL 62703

Don't take your guns to them.

As for giving the gun away, I won't do that. It was a gift to me and it has done nothing to deserve being passed off to another person. I will eventually make an effort to get this fixed. But for now I need to think on it a bit.

Joe

Bigahh · Post by **Bigahh** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:51 am

Joe,
I feel both your Pain, and Anger. Hopefully there is a solution to this!

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:54 am

Joe,

Sounds like your giving up on it. Don't let that rifle sit in the back of the closet. Do what you have to in order to get some satisfaction. YOU did nothing wrong, insist they make it right one way or another.

Sounds like turning the barrel in would be the best way to remedy the situation. It may not even need to be touched by a reamer if the headspace is a little on the generous side already. You might end up with a rifle that is more accurate than before.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:58 am

J Miller wrote:I have several options open to me. However a suit is not one of them. It really isn't worth the effort.
Contacting the owner again is not going to be productive. I've done business with this shop since I moved to IL in '99. I know that without a lawyer or a suit all I will get is attitude.
Lawyers cost money. I don't have money like that.

Contacting Steve is on my list of "to do's". After all is said and done I wouldn't let the butcher that messed it up touch it again. That would be stupid. And I'm not stupid.

As for identifying the store, that is no problem:

Bullet Express
4885 Industrial Dr.
Springfield, IL 62703

Don't take your guns to them.

As for giving the gun away, I won't do that. It was a gift to me and it has done nothing to deserve being passed off to another person. I will eventually make an effort to get this fixed. But for now I need to think on it a bit.

Joe

Joe, small claims should only cost about $50. It's worth a try contacting the shop owner to let him know you feel he is responsible, and that if he doesn't resolve the issue, you will file with small claims. Thats what small claims is for. You pay for it. You can also report him to credit agencies. If you paid with a CC, you can stop payment with your CC company. Usually they will take the money right back out of his account, then file a legal complaint. If you paid with a check you can also stop payment.

QuarterChoke · Post by **QuarterChoke** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:55 pm

Joe,
I take it that you are in or near Springfield. Call Bill Oglesby and see if he can recommend a competent gunsmith in your area. He probably won't take the job as he concentrates on pistolsmithing, but should know somebody who will. Have iron sights soldered on over the holes, and everything will look fine. Google "Bill Oglesby, gunsmith" and you can get his address and phone number.

The guy probably doesn't know how to use his Forster jig. The jig works fine if you LEVEL IT FIRST. If you set it on a leaning bench, and then level the gun, it is bound to be wrong. Also, a jig that has been abused and bent will make a mess of all jobs following such damage.

Good luck.

Antietamgw · Post by **Antietamgw** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:03 pm

Joe,
I'm sorry to hear of the screw up. There is no reason for it. Even without a jig, sights can be mounted top dead center by a mechanic with just a little care. I'd look for a replacement barrel but, if thats not available, there is a option.

Before any work is done, the new screw holes should be checked for depth to make sure they are not too deep. After that an easy fix, if the sights are clocked to the right a bit, is to set the barrel back slightly until the sights line up. Your lettering will now be a little lower, the amount that your sights were offset. A chambering reamer may be required to deepen the chamber to minimum SAAMI specs. (The minimum length chamber is the only light at the end of this tunnel). Now, for some gun plumbers, this job is just a little tricky. ANYONE that is used to precision barrel fitting will have the equipment and ability. It's really an easy fix. I have used a number of take off barrels from Win 70's and Rem 700's on mausers. I want the existing sights or sight screw holes to be TDC when I'm done. I'd happily do it for you but am not a shop, I just cobble on my own.

I don't think I'd have the same guy do the fix but he ought to pay for it. A source for a 'smith would be anyone over on the benchrest central board. Expect a bit of delay in getting it back, good guys are always busy. Cost will probably be less than you think.
http://benchrest.com/inlink/index.php?s ... esults=100

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:31 pm

Am not giving up ... yet. Wife and I are going to set a canopy for privacy as soon as possible.
Once pics are taken showing the crooked sights I'm going to contact a couple of known good gunsmiths, Steve's Guns is one of them, and see what they suggest.
I also will check with Marlin and see what they will suggest.

Which ever way I go I intend to get it fixed right. I would prefer not to have to rebarrel it, but we'll see.

After that I'll send the gun shop a bill and if (when) they refuse to reimburse me I'll go from there.

I paid cash for the work, as I have no credit cards.

I've been to Oglesby & Oglesby so I do know where they are. He does do work on leverguns as he quoted me a price to D&T my Marlin 1894 for receiver sights. So he "may" be an option. We'll see.

Thanks for all the suggestions. If I didn't answer you it's not because I'm ignoring you, it's because my post would be 90 pages long

Joe

cas · Post by **cas** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:05 pm

Joe... where are the screws in relation to the sights, and where is the front sight in relation to the muzzle?

In reality you only need to move the sights to TDC and forward/backward just enough (slightly more than screw diameter).

Unless it's horribly off center now, they sights should cover the old holes.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:00 pm

cas wrote:Joe... where are the screws in relation to the sights, and where is the front sight in relation to the muzzle?

In reality you only need to move the sights to TDC and forward/backward just enough (slightly more than screw diameter).

Unless it's horribly off center now, they sights should cover the old holes.

cas,

The sights are Williams. That's what Marlin used as OEM on this rifle. The front sight is the long streamlined ramp with two screws. The front of it sits about a 1/2" back from the muzzle.

The rear sight is the Williams WGOS sight.

If the sights could be repositioned, and I see no reason for it not to be doable, it would still require 4 more holes to be drilled and tapped. I suppose plugs could be put in the wrong holes just because though. And I'm wondering if this would weaken the barrel?

My problem is WHO do I take this or ship this rifle to to get it fixed?

And now I've got another thing to check. The post on the too deep screw holes has me concerned. These holes should not be very deep at all. Something I'm going to check in a little while.

Joe

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:20 pm

You know Joe, it's sounding more and more to me that your best bet would be to send the rifle to Marlin for a re-barrel, if they have a barrel in stock, and if they don't have a barrel in stock, finding a barrel and sending it to them anyway along with the rifle of course. While they have it, ask them to drill and tap the barrel and install your sights or sights supplied by them.

I know that's not your first choice or even your fifth or sixth choice but sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:22 pm

Joe, If the barrel is threaded 13TPI (threads per inch) and the sights lean 5 degrees(5 degrees is a lot and would look really bad) the barrel would need to be turned in only 1/72nd. of a turn and would only shorten the headspace by .001" If it is off 10deg.. that would double. Find a good smith and have it adjusted. Simple job!!

Let me know when the linch mob is to meet. I have a brand new rope!

morgan in nm · Post by **morgan in nm** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:45 pm

There is another option available, or was many years ago. In southern Colorado, there used to be a gunsmith who would tig-weld in plug screws into the "off" holes and stone them back down untill they were invisable. Then he would redrill. This used to be done by a fella who worked at TSJC in Trinidad but I have long forgot his name.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:09 pm

Well, I just pulled the sights off the barrel. I'm glad I did, and at the same time I wish I hadn't. ALL FOUR HOLES still had debris from the drilling and tapping in them. The butcher did not even clean them out. All four sight screws are buggered up. ( I ordered two sets when I ordered the sights ... how did I know?)

After that I measured the depth of the screw holes. As best as I can read my dial caliper here is the measurements:

Front sight;
Front hole: .106"
Rear hole: .103"

Rear sight;
Front hole: .123"
Rear hole: .136"

The center of the rear most hole is 4-43/64" from the front edge of the receiver.

Now I have no idea how much metal there is at this point. Nor do I know if these holes are to deep or not. If somebody does, please educate me.

Chuck 100 yd,
The holes are actually about 1/3 to 1/2 the hole diameter drilled off. I need an assistant to move things around before I can remark them to be sure. What this comes out to in degrees I have no idea.

Numrich wants $111.65 for a barrel. Limited availability. Catalog #28.
Marlin wants $107.40 for a barrel. Factory installation only. 2007 price sheet.
So, regardless of what is done, if this barrel is still safe I want to fix it if possible. I can't afford a new barrel at this time.

morgan in nm,
To be honest that's what I'd like to have done. We'll see what I find out about the screw holes.

For right now, I just might put plug screws in the holes and hope the scope don't die on me.

Joe

OT - Botched work, I could just cry. UPDATE

OT - Botched work, I could just cry. UPDATE

Re: OT - Botched work, I could just cry. RANT

Canted Sights