Winchester or Browning 1886 45-70

olguy · Post by **olguy** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:07 pm

I'm brand new to this forum so please forgive the topic that I'm sure has been hashed over many times. My new son in law is treating me to a hog hunt next winter and I've decided that I am finally going to buy the 45-70 I've been jonesing over for a long time. I've narrowed the choices to either a Winchester or Browning 1886, recent or new production ( can't afford a classic ) or very nice used; light rifle, extra light, carbine, SRC, or full size etc. are all OK by me. I would appreciate any and all personal reviews or just point me to any forum threads that apply. Thanks to all for your responses.
Olguy

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:13 pm

I think the fans will tell you Browning for the more traditional configuration.

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:29 pm

Original 1886's were winchesters. 1886's made in 1986 were classified as brownings, made by miroku, and had no safety on the tang. 1886's from around year 2000 had safety and were calassified as winchesters made in japan by miroku. Go figure.
All are good.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:33 pm

Both are made by Miroku and will suit your purposes well. The Brownings have the traditional half-cock notch safety and the Winchesters have the lawyer induced fix for a problem that never existed. i.e. rebounding hammer and tang safety. The fit and finish on both are first class. I have a Win 86 Extra Light that is pretty easy to carry and will handle any load.

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:42 pm

Go with the Browning SRC if your gonna hunt with it. The newer winchester copies have rebounding hammmers and an extra tang safety. Some like those, but I prefer the old school Brownings, the newer safety systems feel unnatural to me. The Browning SRC is as close to a custom made arm as you can get. You won't regret getting one.

jmiller · Post by **jmiller** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:52 pm

Both are good. The Brownings are very hard to find and the Winchesters are getting harder to find and the price keeps going up. I ended up with a NIB old stock Winchester/Miroku with the safety and no half notch hammer. I didn't have a problem with this but I wanted to get it case color finished so while that was being done I had the safety removed and filled in and had the half cock hammer put on. I couldn't be happier with the gun. It shoots great and functions perfectly. Get the Browning if you don't want the safety and if you don't care you'll probably find the Winchester easier to get. Both are made by Miroku and both are excellent quality guns.

1886 · Post by **1886** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:11 pm

Welcome. Browning. 1886.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:41 pm

Browning if you can find it. You will be happier.

Some Italian clones now that are interesting to me.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:29 pm

This is a Browning:

One of these days...I WILL shoot it!

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:37 pm

I rather like the Brownings also. I have a carbine I chopped 2" off the barrel, and installed a decent receiver peep sight and sling. I couldn't be happier for a mountain carry gun as far as a 45-70 goes.

jmiller · Post by **jmiller** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:16 am

The butt plate comes in different configurations. Some are shotgun type butt plates and some are the curved kind. You might want to give that some serious consideration before buying. The curved ones are somewhat severe when it comes to recoil. The shotgun type can have a recoil pad added. Just a thought.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:14 pm

The curved ones aren't severe if you put it on your upper arm like it's designed to be and don't try to shoot it with the curved butt in your shoulder.

SRCs are nice but getting very pricey. I still want one if I ever stumble across it. The 26" rifles are very nice but mine got sold because I simply got tired of carrying it for miles while hunting.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:18 pm

Old Time Hunter wrote:This is a Browning:

One of these days...I WILL shoot it!

This would be my choice as well. It's on my short list.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:06 pm

Old Ironsights is selling a guide gun, one of the all time best hunting rigs in the world. There's nothing you can do with the Browning or Winchester that you can't do with the guide gun.

I mention that because I have 4 45/70s and the guide gun would be the last to go....

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:21 pm

Grizz wrote:There's nothing you can do with the Browning or Winchester that you can't do with the guide gun.

The 1895 can not handle the same pressures as the 1886. Nobody in their right mind will shoot those loads

, but if a fella were so inclined, the 1886 would be stronger. I would have bought the 1895 LTD 1 had the ExtraLight not come across my path first. I do like that half-round LTD 1.

jmiller · Post by **jmiller** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:01 pm

Grizz wrote:Old Ironsights is selling a guide gun, one of the all time best hunting rigs in the world. There's nothing you can do with the Browning or Winchester that you can't do with the guide gun.

I mention that because I have 4 45/70s and the guide gun would be the last to go....

The Marlin will not function with the longer/heavier bullets commonly used. That's why Hornady developed the LeveRevolution rounds for that gun. The Winchester and the Browning don't have that problem. There are things the Marlin can't do. It's a good gun, just not as versatile as the other two.

86er · Post by **86er** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:29 pm

I have a 1886 EL High-Grade. The hammer has been altered to remove the rebounding feature and the trigger pull adjusted. It has an XS rear ghost ring sight saddled over the action, an XS white stripe front sight, a Wild West scout scope mount, Kick-eez recoil pad and sling. I had a cheek riser temporarily on there but eventually bent the stock for a higher comb and glass bedded it to the acton. I use mine casually. I primarily use Grizzly Cartridge 405 gr Kodiak @ 2006 fps from this rifle, 430 grain Punch bullets and even some 450 grain Northfork and Kodiaks @ 1720 fps. It's been to Africa a couple of times and I've used it for elephant, buffalo, leopard and a plethora of plains game. In N.A. it's been used for 27 species of exotics and deer, hog, black bear, elk and a few other critters. About 100 animals in all. I've fired about 900 rounds of heavy loads and have not had a lick of trouble. It is accurate enough and will make 1.75" groups at 100 yards using the scout scope and off a rest (with the ammo it likes best). I can get 3" groups using the XS sights and shooting off sticks with the same ammo under the same conditions. The furthest shot I've done is a gemsbok at 174 yards (on the laser rangefinder), and I've shot hogs and buffalo 20 feet away. I have no preference for Browning or Winchester personally but the Winchester requires that you do something about the safety if you are to use it seriously or in potentially dangerous situations. I've used and seen used originals, Brownings and Winchesters (Miroku) and they were all great rifles. Most can benefit from an action job, trigger job and some other minor adjustments to enhance accuracy and reliability. Best of luck to you and welcome to the forum.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:50 pm

jmiller wrote:
Grizz wrote:Old Ironsights is selling a guide gun, one of the all time best hunting rigs in the world. There's nothing you can do with the Browning or Winchester that you can't do with the guide gun.

I mention that because I have 4 45/70s and the guide gun would be the last to go....
The Marlin will not function with the longer/heavier bullets commonly used. That's why Hornady developed the LeveRevolution rounds for that gun. The Winchester and the Browning don't have that problem. There are things the Marlin can't do. It's a good gun, just not as versatile as the other two.

this is so not so

my only 45/70 load is a 525gr bullet that penetrates thru a dozen one gallon jugs of water, a feat almost unequaled by any other rifle round. it does this with a moderate load that departs my guide gun in the 1425fps range, faster from longer barrels and slower from pistols. it will ring a gong all day long from 100 yards, and it's been done by boys and girls, and complete novices who had never fired a gun before. it does this equally well from my 4 rifles.

all of this is well documented in posts going back ten years or so.

the 525 gr load is shot from guide guns by expert reloaders with significantly higher velocities before getting stoked up to the designed operating pressure of the rifle.

Sore Shoulder shoots an even longer bullet from his guide gun.

As I said, I don't think there is anything the other mentioned rifles will do that the guide gun can't.
I will add, without exceeding the design pressure limits of the guns. They will not out-penetrate the 525 load under any circumstances. Yes, that's challengable, just shoot and post the video...

I acknowledge that my Browning 1886 and my NEF single shot will safely accept higher pressure cartridges, but in terms of practical hunting results I can't think of common hunting example where the guide gun would fail to take an animal that the other guns can take, can you? I mean, is the bullet just gonna stop if it's delivered by a guide gun?

Grizz

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:26 pm

Grizz wrote:[ I mean, is the bullet just gonna stop if it's delivered by a guide gun?

Grizz

- probably not , --- I'm with ya on the Guide Gun --- i am fond of mine too. Mine has been through a lot of different hunting scenarios , and now, since i sold off a bunch of more traditional defense oriented long guns, my Guide is doing bedside duty stoked up with FTX factory loads --- Why the heck not? I've used it on moving targets with great success, something i cant say about some of my black rifle range toys i've had over the years
--- But that said --- If i had a special hunt coming up and had a few bucks put back, i'd likely lean towards a Winchester/Browning too - i just love the looks of the 1886 design -- I'd probably lean towards a 45/90 , a .348 in a '71, or one of Turnbulls custom 475's though ---- i'm just weird enough that i wouldnt want my Guide Gun to think it was losing its place in the rotation

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:46 pm

I much prefer a Winchester or Browning 1886 or 71 over a Marlin, but it is just preference. As far as what they shoot, the Winchester is a stronger action, but when your get into the realm of loads that need the extra strength of the Winchester design, do you really reasonably need the extra pressure?

As far as bullet length, I'm not sure if there were chamber variations between different .45-70 Miroku-built '86 rifles, but I have heard people say that the Miroku chamber can take longer bullets than Marlin chambers. I was asked to test 500 gr. .45-70 loads for a manufacturer in my Miroku Whinchester '86 Extra Lightweight. The long bullets would not chamber in my rifle, yet they do chamber in Marlin 1895 rifles, so at least in the case of my Winchester/Miroku, the chamber is shorter than a Marlin chamber.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:47 pm

Doug, I agree. If I were to shoot a Buff I would probably choose the 1886 or the NEF, just because I can. I am addressing the OP's question about a suitable gun for his purpose, and he didn't have it yet. So, while I have a selection, I still think you can't beat a good deal on the guide gun, roughly half of what the others cost.

Now, if someone is interested in stoking to 45/70+++P loads.... don't laugh, I've seen this question come up, then we're talking about a Ruger 458 Win Mag, which will easily down load to the puniest 45/70 level.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:54 pm

Grizz wrote: my only 45/70 load is a 525gr bullet that penetrates thru a dozen one gallon jugs of water, a feat almost unequaled by any other rifle round. it does this with a moderate load that departs my guide gun in the 1425fps range, faster from longer barrels and slower from pistols.

That load is right in the weight/velocity range to get really deep penetration. It will do anything you need a .45-70 to do, and will do a lot that people think they need an African game-type cartridge to do.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:22 pm

7.62 Precision wrote:
Grizz wrote: my only 45/70 load is a 525gr bullet that penetrates thru a dozen one gallon jugs of water, a feat almost unequaled by any other rifle round. it does this with a moderate load that departs my guide gun in the 1425fps range, faster from longer barrels and slower from pistols.
That load is right in the weight/velocity range to get really deep penetration. It will do anything you need a .45-70 to do, and will do a lot that people think they need an African game-type cartridge to do.

It's pretty close to a load that has taken all of the African dangerous game, forget the guy's name.
Exit wounds from Cape Buffalo. It does have amazing penetration. Makes tip-toeing thru the brown bears slightly less obnoxious...

PS. my load is what I classify as moderate recoil. less recoil than a 425gr bullet pushed up to working pressure velocities. Less than my 338 with 275 gr max loads. About the same as a 12 ga 2-3/4 bird load, maybe a little less. IOW, I get the penetration and accuracy without, repeat, WITHOUT punishing recoil. Now the 425, that one will wake you up, but it doesn't hurt.

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:51 pm

86er wrote:I have a 1886 EL High-Grade. The hammer has been altered to remove the rebounding feature and the trigger pull adjusted. It has an XS rear ghost ring sight saddled over the action, an XS white stripe front sight, a Wild West scout scope mount, Kick-eez recoil pad and sling. I had a cheek riser temporarily on there but eventually bent the stock for a higher comb and glass bedded it to the acton. I use mine casually. I primarily use Grizzly Cartridge 405 gr Kodiak @ 2006 fps from this rifle, 430 grain Punch bullets and even some 450 grain Northfork and Kodiaks @ 1720 fps. It's been to Africa a couple of times and I've used it for elephant, buffalo, leopard and a plethora of plains game. In N.A. it's been used for 27 species of exotics and deer, hog, black bear, elk and a few other critters. About 100 animals in all. I've fired about 900 rounds of heavy loads and have not had a lick of trouble. It is accurate enough and will make 1.75" groups at 100 yards using the scout scope and off a rest (with the ammo it likes best). I can get 3" groups using the XS sights and shooting off sticks with the same ammo under the same conditions. The furthest shot I've done is a gemsbok at 174 yards (on the laser rangefinder), and I've shot hogs and buffalo 20 feet away. I have no preference for Browning or Winchester personally but the Winchester requires that you do something about the safety if you are to use it seriously or in potentially dangerous situations. I've used and seen used originals, Brownings and Winchesters (Miroku) and they were all great rifles. Most can benefit from an action job, trigger job and some other minor adjustments to enhance accuracy and reliability. Best of luck to you and welcome to the forum.
Interesting! thanks.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:08 pm

olguy wrote:I'm brand new to this forum so please forgive the topic that I'm sure has been hashed over many times. My new son in law is treating me to a hog hunt next winter and I've decided that I am finally going to buy the 45-70 I've been jonesing over for a long time. I've narrowed the choices to either a Winchester or Browning 1886, recent or new production ( can't afford a classic ) or very nice used; light rifle, extra light, carbine, SRC, or full size etc. are all OK by me. I would appreciate any and all personal reviews or just point me to any forum threads that apply. Thanks to all for your responses.
Olguy

and Welcome to THE Forum.

I have a Browning marked/Miroku made 1886 from 1985 rifle with the 26" octagon barrel. While I pretty much hold myself to ammo appropriate to leverguns, higher pressure than the "Trapdoor" but less than say the Ruger or various single shots... I bought the Browning because I also don't believe the modern Marlin 1895 actions (being sized the same as the 336), is as strong as the 1886. I've seen pictures of fairly catastrophic failures on the modern 1895... similar to such failures on old black powder era mdl 1886s. I haven't seen such failures in the modern Browning or Winchester marked Miroku products.

Every failure I've read about indicates that the user was SURPRISED by his gun's failure. Now... whether that's because they're clueless, or because running over the recommended pressure range for various leverguns is a one shot, 10 shot or 1,000 shot recipe for a failure is something that I'm not comfortable experimenting with.

So my recommendation is pretty much consistent... buy the gun you're comfortable shooting, stay within it's recommended pressure range with ammo, and enjoy the beegeesus out it!

olguy · Post by **olguy** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:42 pm

THANKS TO ALL who have replied-I knew I found the right place to seek advice re. the 1886. I did consider the Marlin but changed quickly when I started reading about the Remlin nightmares. I know that I could find a good used JM Marlin for less than a new
JA Pan Winchester or Browning but I've made up my mind. Thanks again, keep writing if you have any more advice or opinions, it's all greatly appreciated.
As soon as I get her in my hands I'll post some pics of the gun and a guy with a grin that you couldn't pry off of his face.
Olguy

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:24 pm

Griff wrote: I bought the Browning because I also don't believe the modern Marlin 1895 actions (being sized the same as the 336), is as strong as the 1886. I've seen pictures of fairly catastrophic failures on the modern 1895... similar to such failures on old black powder era mdl 1886s. I haven't seen such failures in the modern Browning or Winchester marked Miroku products.

I was glad I was shooting an 1886 when this happened:

http://762precision.wordpress.com/2012/ ... m-ammo-14/

Olguy, if you like I will check in the next day or two on a Browning carbine I know of. If the guy who is selling it hasn't decided to buy it himself, and the price is decent, I can let you know who to contact.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:56 pm

I have had Marlins, the new lawyered up safety Winchesters, and the Browning SRC.
First choice is the Browning
If I bought another Winchester I would definitely have Turnbill or someone else fix it for me.

I would probably just pass on the Marlin unless it's and old one.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:14 pm

I was glad I was shooting an 1886 when this happened:

Really scary stuff. Glad I load my own. My Marlin has only ever seen 2 rounds of factory ammo.

Most people would be extremely well served to just shoot Remington 405g jsp in the 45/40 and call it good. It will handle a high percentage of the normal hunting needs, and I'll wager that it never blew up a Marlin.

For the relatively new shooters, one ammo check on consistency is to weigh each round. I, know, Right? It's a pain, and while it can't tell you if somehow the wrong powder got switched into the load, it can tell you if there IS powder, or if there is TOO MUCH of it.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:27 am

7.62 Precision wrote:I was glad I was shooting an 1886 when this happened:

http://762precision.wordpress.com/2012/ ... m-ammo-14/

Wow! The description of that shot reminds me of a phone conversation I had with a fellow in the design department of Browning who had been part of the Browning 1886 SRC team. He told me off the record what kind of strength the Browning 1886 SRC action was designed to. I will not repeat it since it was off the record, but it was so impressive that I must confess I was a little skeptical and would never load a 45-70 up that strong. Now, having read your account, and given your rough estimation of the recoil, I would say that your shot exceeded even what the design department fellow told me. Now THAT is impressive. Still, I will never load my Browning 1886 SRC anywhere close to what that fellow told me it will handle. Recoil is directly propositional to the momentum of the bullet, which is directly proportional to the velocity. So simply take the normal velocity of that particular cartridge and multiply it by the factor you think would accurately estimate the increased recoil of that shot and you will have an estimate of the velocity with which that bullet left the barrel. So if your estimate of 2x the normal recoil is close, all we need to know is what the normal factory velocity of that HSM ammo was. Do you recall what the normal velocity was?

piller · Post by **piller** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:10 am

I have a Guide Gun, and have fired 86er's rifle. I used Grizzly Cartridge Company's +P load of a 405 grain JSP when in Africa. The Guide Gun handled that round quite well, but I am not trusting enough to use it as my only round due to the lock up of the Marlin. I was warned by 86er and by Mike Rintoul of Grizzly Cartridge Company that the Marlin would not do well with a steady diet of those rounds, but occasional use was just fine. When I purchase a full length .45-70 it will be a Browning model 86. I probably will continue to use middle of the road pressure for lever action firearms most of the time since that is plenty for almost anything I would ever hunt. That level of load was plenty for American Bison, and should do well against a bear.

southfork · Post by **southfork** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:08 pm

Sounds like a prevalent opinion is that the Browning '86 is hard to beat. What would a probable asking price be for a Browning SRC in 45-70, if you can find one in about 95% or above condition?

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:42 pm

KirkD wrote:
Recoil is directly propositional to the momentum of the bullet, which is directly proportional to the velocity.

And the bullet weight - why I anymore refuse to shoot a .45-70 with a boolit weight over 300gr-350gr.

(I normally use Nosler/premium .300gr JSP's)

.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:48 pm

Pete44ru wrote:
KirkD wrote:
Recoil is directly propositional to the momentum of the bullet, which is directly proportional to the velocity.

And the bullet weight -

That is correct, but because he was talking about the same HSM ammo, just an overload, I assumed the bullet weight was the same.

I use 400 grain cast bullets, but I keep 'er down to original black powder ballistics (1,300 fps). I have just purchased a custom mould from Accurate Moulds for a 500 grain FP plain base bullet so I am eager to cast up a batch when the weather warms up a bit. I might push these out at 1,400 fps from my Browning SRC but we shall see. I do know from personal experience that a 400 grain GC bullet out the barrel at 2,000 fps from my SRC is just plain brutal. I loaded up 40 rounds, shot off about 8 of them and pulled the bullets from the rest and reloaded them down to sane levels.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:11 pm

Kirk, you will be pleased about how soft the recoil on the 500's will be, compared to the 400gr at 2000. I look forward to your field report when you start shooting them.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:19 pm

This really tests my memory, but, I thought that I was having trouble chambering my 45-70 loads in my USRAC 1886 EL (a hair too much OAL) that fit perfectly in the Cowboy, and Guide Gun.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:05 pm

KirkD wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote:So if your estimate of 2x the normal recoil is close, all we need to know is what the normal factory velocity of that HSM ammo was. Do you recall what the normal velocity was?

I will dig up the box and see if there is a velocity listed.

jmiller · Post by **jmiller** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:06 pm

BlaineG wrote:This really tests my memory, but, I thought that I was having trouble chambering my 45-70 loads in my USRAC 1886 EL (a hair too much OAL) that fit perfectly in the Cowboy, and Guide Gun.

BlainG, if your gun was a Miroku made Winchester it would have had a very short throat in it. In fact, almost nonexistent. I recently took my Winchester/Miroku to Turnbull and had some work done to it. While it was there I had them check the chamber with their reamer. When dropped in the gun, it stuck out by about a quarter inch. I figured it needed about 18-20 thou added to accept my Rem 405g jacketed bullets in a trimmed to length case. It needed a lot more if I ever planned to shoot any longer bullets with a wide meplate. I'm taking my Win/Miroku High Wall in next week for the same thing. Both guns shoot very well but need more throat for heavier bullets. I think your memory is probably just fine.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:06 pm

This matches my experience with the Miroku/Winchester chambers - couldn't quite close the bolt on a 525 gr. hard cast bullet.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:04 pm

southfork wrote:Sounds like a prevalent opinion is that the Browning '86 is hard to beat. What would a probable asking price be for a Browning SRC in 45-70, if you can find one in about 95% or above condition?

All over the place....I've heard of people getting them for $750 (usually from someone who doesn't realize what they have) to $1750 for blue ones. Commemorative one are from $1200 to $2500

I'm still looking for that "reasonable" one to buy and am using a Marlin 1895GS to distract me in the meantime.

mack · Post by **mack** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:25 pm

Just a side note, my Browning src will print 3 Remington 405grs into a cloverleaf dead center at 50 yds with the ladder down as it came out of the box.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:51 am

I have this one... The Winchester 86 deluxe takedown in 45/70. Its got the tang safety, but if I ever shoot it... I'll get it removed.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm16 ... 340605.jpg

Then this one for shooting, but have yet to fire it... a Turnbull Winchester 86 with shotgun butt, 32 inch barrel in 50-110.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm16 ... 2bf6d5.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm16 ... be01b9.jpg

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:11 am

that 50 is a work of art

veeman · Post by **veeman** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:25 pm

My Browning 86 SRC.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j78/v ... a2bfb0.jpg

hayabusa · Post by **hayabusa** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:50 am

What type of recoil pad is that? It does not look like the one on my Jap Browning.
busa

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:10 pm

7.62 Precision wrote:This matches my experience with the Miroku/Winchester chambers - couldn't quite close the bolt on a 525 gr. hard cast bullet.

I missed this I guess. It's true that the miroku chamber is tight, but I think it's in saami spec.

Do you trim your cases to length every time? My 45/70 cases grow enough to need trim checks every time, even with my mild loads. Do you full length resize?

My full length resized and trimmed starline brass with btb 525gr .460 is a drop fit in my miroku browning 1886 src.

Grizz

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:22 pm

Grizz wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote:This matches my experience with the Miroku/Winchester chambers - couldn't quite close the bolt on a 525 gr. hard cast bullet.
I missed this I guess. It's true that the miroku chamber is tight, but I think it's in saami spec.

Do you trim your cases to length every time? My 45/70 cases grow enough to need trim checks every time, even with my mild loads. Do you full length resize?

My full length resized and trimmed starline brass with btb 525gr .460 is a drop fit in my miroku browning 1886 src.

Grizz

I shot 535 Lyman Postell bullets out of my 1886 Browning rifle using full length brass. I couldn't chamber 500 gr Hornady DGX bullets, though. I never got around to trimming the brass to make it work with them.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:41 pm

by trimmed I meant trimmed to standard length, not shortened. thanks for mentioning that... still learning to write unambiguous english

Grizz

veeman · Post by **veeman** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:41 pm

hayabusa wrote:What type of recoil pad is that? It does not look like the one on my Jap Browning.
busa

I dont know what brand it is, my gunsmith put it on for me. I needed a bit more length of pull, and was never fond of the steel butt, so this solved both problems.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:18 pm

Grizz wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote:This matches my experience with the Miroku/Winchester chambers - couldn't quite close the bolt on a 525 gr. hard cast bullet.
I missed this I guess. It's true that the miroku chamber is tight, but I think it's in saami spec.

Do you trim your cases to length every time? My 45/70 cases grow enough to need trim checks every time, even with my mild loads. Do you full length resize?

My full length resized and trimmed starline brass with btb 525gr .460 is a drop fit in my miroku browning 1886 src.

Grizz

It's definitely a good chamber in the 1886, the Marlins just seem to have a longer lead or throat in their chamber, from what I understand. I have heard people say that the Winchesters shoot some bullets more accurately as a result, but while they might shoot more accurately, I don't know if this is why.

I can't give much information about the load that did not fit my chamber, except that it hit the rifling before the action was fully in battery. It was new Starline brass with a 525 gr. hard cast bullet, I don't know which. It might be one made by a bullet manufacturer up here. Now that I think of it, it might have been a 550 gr. or something like that.

Sorry, it was several years ago and I don't remember the details. The manufacturer just gave me several to test in my rifle as they were building them for customers with Marlins and wanted to see if they worked through the new Winchesters.

The point was that it did chamber in the Marlins, but just touched the rifling in the Winchester before the bolt fully closed. I likely could have closed the bolt on it with a little extra force - it was that close, but I try not to do that sort of thing.