Repro 1887 LeverShotgun

Dastook · Post by **Dastook** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:04 pm

I'm confused. I thought InterArms and Norinco were two different companies. I have read InterAms is a better product. I found one listed as: " IAC|Norinco M1887". Is not IAC, InterArms?

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:14 pm

IAC = Interstate Arms Corp of Billerica, MA

Interarms was of Alexandria, VA and went OOB several years ago.

Norinco has nothing to do with the 1887 shotgun, despite what internet posts, gunshow experts, gunshop commandos and magazine articles say. IAC buys the 1887 from a non-Norinco factory in China.

Noah

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:07 pm

Noah Zark wrote:IAC = Interstate Arms Corp of Billerica, MA

Interarms was of Alexandria, VA and went OOB several years ago.

Norinco has nothing to do with the 1887 shotgun, despite what internet posts, gunshow experts, gunshop commandos and magazine articles say. IAC buys the 1887 from a non-Norinco factory in China.

Noah

AH I get it now, I know the importation of new Norinco arms has been banned in the US for years, that explains these Chinese 1887s. BUT why ban just Norinco and not all Chicom made guns?

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:03 pm

GANJIRO wrote:
Noah Zark wrote:IAC = Interstate Arms Corp of Billerica, MA

Interarms was of Alexandria, VA and went OOB several years ago.

Norinco has nothing to do with the 1887 shotgun, despite what internet posts, gunshow experts, gunshop commandos and magazine articles say. IAC buys the 1887 from a non-Norinco factory in China.

Noah
AH I get it now, I know the importation of new Norinco arms has been banned in the US for years, that explains these Chinese 1887s. BUT why ban just Norinco and not all Chicom made guns?

Because it was only "Norinco" doing dirty...

All depends on if you believe the Chinese when they say they have companies independent of the government. Norinco most definitely was not.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:17 pm

Hobie wrote:
GANJIRO wrote:
Noah Zark wrote:IAC = Interstate Arms Corp of Billerica, MA

Interarms was of Alexandria, VA and went OOB several years ago.

Norinco has nothing to do with the 1887 shotgun, despite what internet posts, gunshow experts, gunshop commandos and magazine articles say. IAC buys the 1887 from a non-Norinco factory in China.

Noah
AH I get it now, I know the importation of new Norinco arms has been banned in the US for years, that explains these Chinese 1887s. BUT why ban just Norinco and not all Chicom made guns?
Because it was only "Norinco" doing dirty... All depends on if you believe the Chinese when they say they have companies independent of the government. Norinco most definitely was not.

It's my understanding that Norinco is an entity of the Chinese gov. that controls exports out of China or is just an export company that doesn't manufacture anything. In either case, they got caught exporting missile parts or something like that to Iran so the bush admin will no longer allow imports from them. Something like that.
The 87 lever shotgun is imported by IAC but I believe many of the distributors still show them as Norinco because of name recognition. I know that if you go to Davidson and search Norinco it comes up IAC

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:30 pm

Norinco is NORth china INdustries CO. It is a consortium of dozens of factories owned by the Red Chinese Army.

So the story goes, the factory that makes the IAC 1887 is NOT part of the Norinco military/industrial complex.

Noah

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:53 pm

That's too bad because the Canucks get some pretty appealing guns from "NORINCO" which can't come south of the border.

A cheap 22 levergun at $198.00 Canadian perfect for behind your truck seat:

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/22-JW-21.shtm

Nice M14 clone and only at $399.00 Canadian:

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/M-14S.shtm

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:00 pm

Wow. A $400 M14....

Back in the day I had a Norinco 1911 that I used as a base for a custom IPSC gun (no Series 80 safeties to muck around with). IIRC it was $150 or $200 NIB.

Dastook · Post by **Dastook** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:41 pm

Found this on another site. Don't know if it correct or not.

The China North Industries Corporation, official English name Norinco, manufactures vehicles (trucks, cars and motorcycles), machinery, optical-electronic products, oil field equipment, chemicals, light industrial products, explosives and blast materials, civil and military firearms and ammunition, etc. Norinco is also involved in domestic civil construction projects.

Norinco is also known outside of China for its high-tech defense products, some of which are adaptations of Soviet equipment. Norinco produces precision strike systems, amphibious assault weapons and equipment, long-range suppression weapon systems, anti-aircraft & anti-missile systems, information & night vision products, high-effect destruction systems, fuel air bombs, anti-terrorism & anti-riot equipment and small arms.

History

Norinco was established in 1980 with the approval of the State Council of China, and is overseen by the Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense (COSTIND). According to the congressional testimony of Gary Milhollin of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control in 1997, Norinco subsidiaries in the U.S. include: Beta Chemical, Beta First, Beta Lighting, Beta Unitex, China Sports (California), Forte Lighting, Larin, NIC International (New Jersey).

Controversies in the United States

In 1994, some employees of Norinco came under federal investigation from both the FBI as well as the BATF after a successful sting dubbed â€œOperation Dragon Fire.â€

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:54 pm

Noah Zark wrote:Norinco is NORth china INdustries CO. It is a consortium of dozens of factories owned by the Red Chinese Army.

So the story goes, the factory that makes the IAC 1887 is NOT part of the Norinco military/industrial complex.

Noah

IAC is the US based importer.

Crazy Horse · Post by **Crazy Horse** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:25 pm

GANJIRO wrote:That's too bad because the Canucks get some pretty appealing guns from "NORINCO" which can't come south of the border.

A cheap 22 levergun at $198.00 Canadian perfect for behind your truck seat:

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/22-JW-21.shtm

Nice M14 clone and only at $399.00 Canadian:

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/M-14S.shtm

Why in the heck can't we get these guns??? Almost everything else in the country is made in China.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:35 pm

Crazy Horse wrote: Why in the heck can't we get these guns??? Almost everything else in the country is made in China.

Be careful what you wish for. I purchased a Polytech copy of the M1A marked a M14S. It was made in China, though I can't remember if it was a Norinco arm or not. In any case, it was a solid hunk of unreliable junk. I could rarely get the thing to fire three rounds in a row, and when it did, it spit them all over the place. Got lucky and traded it in for $40 more than I paid for it, dropped 2X in addition to that, and got the real thing - a Springfield. Well worth the bucks...

I'm not saying everything made in China is a piece of junk - just that, like everywhere else, you need to be careful - and if something is too good of a deal, there is probably a reason...

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:11 am

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:
IAC is the US based importer.

Noah Zark wrote: IAC = Interstate Arms Corp of Billerica, MA

Interarms was of Alexandria, VA and went OOB several years ago.

Norinco has nothing to do with the 1887 shotgun, despite what internet posts, gunshow experts, gunshop commandos and magazine articles say. IAC buys the 1887 from a non-Norinco factory in China.

I think I attempted to say that, but not as explicitly as you did, Steve. Thanks!

Noah

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:35 am

Noah Zark wrote:Norinco is NORth china INdustries CO. It is a consortium of dozens of factories owned by the Red Chinese Army.

So the story goes, the factory that makes the IAC 1887 is NOT part of the Norinco military/industrial complex.

Noah

That's absolutely correct.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:37 am

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:
Hobie wrote:
GANJIRO wrote:
Noah Zark wrote:IAC = Interstate Arms Corp of Billerica, MA

Interarms was of Alexandria, VA and went OOB several years ago.

Norinco has nothing to do with the 1887 shotgun, despite what internet posts, gunshow experts, gunshop commandos and magazine articles say. IAC buys the 1887 from a non-Norinco factory in China.

Noah
AH I get it now, I know the importation of new Norinco arms has been banned in the US for years, that explains these Chinese 1887s. BUT why ban just Norinco and not all Chicom made guns?
Because it was only "Norinco" doing dirty... All depends on if you believe the Chinese when they say they have companies independent of the government. Norinco most definitely was not.
It's my understanding that Norinco is an entity of the Chinese gov. that controls exports out of China or is just an export company that doesn't manufacture anything. In either case, they got caught exporting missile parts or something like that to Iran so the bush admin will no longer allow imports from them. Something like that.
The 87 lever shotgun is imported by IAC but I believe many of the distributors still show them as Norinco because of name recognition. I know that if you go to Davidson and search Norinco it comes up IAC

That's right. I should have said, "Norinco most definitely was not independent of direct government control." Sorry, but that was confusing.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:24 pm

Crazy Horse wrote:
GANJIRO wrote:That's too bad because the Canucks get some pretty appealing guns from "NORINCO" which can't come south of the border.

A cheap 22 levergun at $198.00 Canadian perfect for behind your truck seat:

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/22-JW-21.shtm

Nice M14 clone and only at $399.00 Canadian:

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/M-14S.shtm
Why in the heck can't we get these guns??? Almost everything else in the country is made in China.

You can thank Clinton for that. By executive order he shut down all chinese imports of rifles (remember the cheap SKS's) and pistols (the norinco 1911's). That's why you only see shotguns from china. Bush was to repeal that ban but the Norinco/Iran stuff blow that up.

Texican · Post by **Texican** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:12 pm

As Capt George Baylor reports in this month's Cowboy Comical: Armi Chiappa (Armisport) is releasing a 1887 levergun. They have a Spencer rifle too.

http://www.armisport.com/eng/armiAS.asp?idFamiglia=7

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:19 am

I saw an 1887 on the Charles Daily website as well.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:24 pm

Not to hijack this thread, but what is the general consensus on these remakes? I just got one for a deal at a gun show last weekend - about $100 less, NIB, than I've seen them recently at Gunbroker.com and other sites. Did I do good?

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:35 pm

Texican wrote:As Capt George Baylor reports in this month's Cowboy Comical: Armi Chiappa (Armisport) is releasing a 1887 levergun. They have a Spencer rifle too.

http://www.armisport.com/eng/armiAS.asp?idFamiglia=7

WOW I like and prefer their 28" barrel model as I'd use mine for actual bird hunting in the fall. I get the feeling they'll be a "tad" higher in price than the Chicom '87s

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:56 pm

MSRP for the Armi Chiappa is $1059 so you can expect to pay at least $900.

I just sold this IAC with all the options for $750.

http://www.auctionarms.com/Closed/displ ... =8507415.0

Seller's Description:
This is a new "Coyote Caps 1887 Special Edition" lever-action 12ga. It has the 1887wcse-18 standard upgrades like 18" heavy wall barrel with screw-in choke tubes with two extra chokes. Chokes are cylinder, modified and extra full. Special editions also have stocks cut to 5 degree negative toe and a recoil pad added along with the feed two parts dailed in.____________________Over and above the Special Edition upgrades this gun was prepped by Cap in his custom shop. It has select wood, Top gun mods for positive stop two shoot feed and machine tooling on friction parts. Plus Coyote Cap signed and numbered this gun.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:36 pm

Looks very nice Steve!

I think that recoil pad would come in handy. Mine has a hard rubber/plastic pad/plate. Probably going to hurt!

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:17 am

Can the Chicom 1887s be rebarrelled to 28" at a "reasonable" cost?

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:52 am

Ysabel Kid wrote:Looks very nice Steve!

I think that recoil pad would come in handy. Mine has a hard rubber/plastic pad/plate. Probably going to hurt!

This ones setup for the CAS guy. The shortened stock and negative angle pad helps keep it on the should when working the lever.

GANJIRO wrote:Can the Chicom 1887s be rebarrelled to 28" at a "reasonable" cost?

If you could find a barrel blank it shouldn't be too expensive. The machining is fairly straight forward

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:07 am

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:
GANJIRO wrote:Can the Chicom 1887s be rebarrelled to 28" at a "reasonable" cost?
If you could find a barrel blank it shouldn't be too expensive. The machining is fairly straight forward

Could you use a Mossberg 500 barrel as a blank?

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:18 am

Nice work as usual Nate Kiowa Jones

!

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:13 am

Ysabel Kid wrote: . . . what is the general consensus on these remakes? I just got one for a deal at a gun show last weekend - about $100 less, NIB, than I've seen them recently at Gunbroker.com and other sites. Did I do good?

In my experience, anything $400 or less is good.

I have three of these IAC guns, one each for my wife, daughter, and I. We don't compete in CAs or anything, but we enjoy plinking with them.

I cut about 2" off the buttstock of one of them and installed a Limbsaver pad, and sling swivels for a UM sling. The other two are stock, but one of them will get the same Limbsaver treatment.

I've found that the IAC 87 is sensitive to empty hull length. It prefers shorter hulls, and AA, Rem Heavy Dove, and most Federal rounds that I've tried all seem to eject well. Don't stock up on a lot of ammo until you've tried it in your gun.

Unless you're a CAS shooter, the modified mag follower tip for the "drop two" loading system is a joke. The mag follower tip is hollowed to allow the tip of the ejector lever to catch in it, which effectively locates the cartridge elevator for convenient loading of two cartridges in the gun, which apparently is all that is allowed in CAS. If you don't shoot CAS and have no need for this "drop two" loading deal, I recommend filling the recess in the mag follower with JB Weld or other epoxy, then polishing the entire curved face of the follower. Operation and ejection are much smoother and improved if you do so.

Other polishing internally is recommended. There are a lot of rough surfaces and sharp edges that need polishing and breaking. The 87 is not difficult to disassemble as long as you have the proper-fitting screwdrivers. The areas needing polishing are detailed in Coyote Cap's website under "Gunsmithing Simplified" or something like that. Not all the issues outlined in that detailed writeup apply to newer guns made in 2006 or later.

Extractor fitting and tension are also critical with the IAC 87. The extractors need polished where they fit against the breechblock, and they can't have too much force on the case head or they won't allow the hull to be released at the right time. That's also detailed in Cap's writeup.

Or, you can send the 87 to a levergun 'smith like Steve to be tweaked.

Do use the leather wrap because your hand will get pinched in the split finger lever at the front. I know two shooters with IAC 87s that have pinned the lever halves and removed the lever retaining catch, but I don't recommend that.

HTH,

Noah

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:06 pm

Thanks for the details Noah!