Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
I've always be interested in this wildcat round and I'm a BIG 35 caliber fan. Few weeks ago I picked up a fare priced, early 80's Marlin 336 in 30-30 just for this project so I'm ready to ship it to JES rebore but need to decide on 3,4,5 rifling and twist rate.
I've looked around the internet (also here) for info. I know a few members here have done the conversion. Other then asking JES himself (which I may call him) what are my best choices?
Will be shooting all cast.
Nothing bigger than 250 grain.
Would like to shoot pistol bullets for plinking?
Your thoughts???
Mainehunter
Last edited by Mainehunter on Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
I have one on my Henry lever action. JES did the work and I chose a 3 groove rifling. I have used 30/30, 32 Spl and 38-55 brass. My dies are from Redding and they work great. Trimming the brass is very important. The powder I like is Benchmark with 34 grain being great for about anything 200 grains up to 250 grains. The 200 grain Remington Core-Lokt goes 2055 fps, my Saeco 214 grain does 2070 fps and the Lyman 225 grain does 2020 fps. The accuracy is very good. I've used some 180 grain pistol bullets sized to .359 or .360. Accuracy is good when the velocity is around 1700-1800 fps. What else do you want to know?
86er it was your thread that I was keeping a close eye on. Question I have did you have a choice on twist rate and what did you go with You mentioned keeping an eye out for brass length, which ones gave you the most problems I'll be mostly using 30-30 brass. Rifle dies I can get by for now but would like to order actually dies for the rifle.
I don't know if you knew this but years ago I stumbled across an old article from Ken Waters on the 350 Maine Guide. Don't ask me if I have that article cause I can't find it! Been looking for it for the past few years. From what I can remember he used 38-55 cases necked down. I always thought it would be cool having a rifle built in the 350 Maine Guide and living in Maine.
I've always been surprised no one has "legitimatized" the 35/30-30. Seems like it would have a nice little niche in the market particularly with the up tick in hog hunting.
{Edit} Ironically I was telling a buddy at the range about this discussion and that a trapper carbine in 35/30-30 would be a nice little rifle for a lot of reasons....(enough for bear, hogs, deer, but could be loaded down to plinking with common 110gr JHP 357mag/38 spl bullets) and he mentioned he had traded into a TC single shot rifle built on an old Contender frame in 357 Herret that he later had bored out to 35/30-30 'Ackley Improved'. He keeps it up at his hunting cabin as a 'back up' rifle (he also has a 22lr barrel & a 410/45 shot gun barrel for it) if his hunting rifle goes belly up.
He said back in the 70's this was a real common thing to do with 30-30 that had shot out or ruined barrels. I guess I'm surprised to find out it was commonly done because I've only encountered two 35/30-30s. One was a Win 94 and the other was a Savage or Stevens bolt action.
I believe the twist rate is 1:14. I discussed it with Jesse and he and I agreed on what would meet my expectations. The 30-30 brass seems to need the most trimming, and sometimes after each firing. 32 Spl, trimmed once prior to initial sizing seems to go 3 or 4 reloads without need for further trimming. The 38-55's I've used have been trimmed before sizing and only fired once if at all so I have no experience with them to form a conclusion. So some reason the 32 WS brass is just easier to size, trim and seat bullets but it's not big deal with the others, same steps just a little more care and attention. New Remington 30-30 brass seems hard and sometimes wrinkles a little upon sizing. New Winchester brass is softer and stretches as well as sometimes crushing. I like used Western brass, Starline brass or old stock Winchester bras. All of these seem to trim easy with a few turns, size right up with one pass and produce consistent loads. A 300 grain flat point going 1750 fps has noticeable recoil but seems virtually unstoppable. All the animals I've killed so far are with 200 grain Remington Core-Lokt bullets going 2070 fps. All exits showing expansion, so far. The cast bullets that are .359 are more accurate then the jacketed bullets or the .360 bullets regardless of weight.
Mainehunter wrote:
years ago I stumbled across an old article from Ken Waters on the 350 Maine Guide.
Don't ask me if I have that article cause I can't find it!
Been looking for it for the past few years.
That article is in HANDLOADER Magazine, issue # 139, May/June 1989, pp14.
Mainehunter wrote:
years ago I stumbled across an old article from Ken Waters on the 350 Maine Guide.
Don't ask me if I have that article cause I can't find it!
Been looking for it for the past few years.
That article is in HANDLOADER Magazine, issue # 139, May/June 1989, pp14.
Thanks! I know I have that article some where. I did go on-line at Wolf Publishing and looks like I can get a copy. I'm curious to know now what is the difference between 35/30-30 and 350 Maine Guide
Mainehunter wrote:
years ago I stumbled across an old article from Ken Waters on the 350 Maine Guide.
Don't ask me if I have that article cause I can't find it!
Been looking for it for the past few years.
That article is in HANDLOADER Magazine, issue # 139, May/June 1989, pp14.
Thanks for digging up the reference, Pete. I pulled out my old Handloader mag and looked it up -- Pretty much a 35/30-30 but with a shorter neck (shoulder moved forward a ways for a bit more powder capacity). Slightly reduced taper but not like an Ackley-improved. Not a bad looking round but I'd prefer the old long neck of a standard 35/30-30 for a cast bullet platform.
Ken Water's ballistics from his ".350 Maine Guide" seem to be virtually the same as 86er's from his 35/30-30: real close to 35 Remington.
Have you got that baby shipped off to JES yet, Mainehunter?
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies. Patrick Henry
Mainehunter wrote:
years ago I stumbled across an old article from Ken Waters on the 350 Maine Guide.
Don't ask me if I have that article cause I can't find it!
Been looking for it for the past few years.
That article is in HANDLOADER Magazine, issue # 139, May/June 1989, pp14.
Thanks for digging up the reference, Pete. I pulled out my old Handloader mag and looked it up -- Pretty much a 35/30-30 but with a shorter neck (shoulder moved forward a ways for a bit more powder capacity). Slightly reduced taper but not like an Ackley-improved. Not a bad looking round but I'd prefer the old long neck of a standard 35/30-30 for a cast bullet platform.
Ken Water's ballistics from his ".350 Maine Guide" seem to be virtually the same as 86er's from his 35/30-30: real close to 35 Remington.
Have you got that baby shipped off to JES yet, Mainehunter?
earlmck.... Nope not yet, hoping this week I can ship her over there. Unless you or 86er can tell me if I should strip down the rifle and just ship the barrel/receiver? I've put a call out to JES but he hasn't returned my call.
That's pretty interesting comparing the two cartridges. Rumor has it there was an 350 MG AI version floating around. I do recall seeing Pacific Tool had reamer's for it. I do agree with you that having a longer neck would be better for cast bullets. Apparently Quickloads has the 35/30-30 built in to the data base but haven't plugged any numbers yet just to compare it with the 35 Rem.
I would respectfully suggest sending Jes only the bbl'd action, stripped of everything except the bolt - at least the parcel shouldn't appear to be a firearm that way.
FWIW, to thwart thieves, I mail (USPS) all my firearms, broken down & bubble-wrapped, etc, in a USPS Priority Mail delta-shaped shipping tube (marked "fragile" by me) - available free @ any US P.O., in several sizes/lengths.
(I use fiberglas-reinforced shipping tape ($3 @ WallyWorld) on all the seams/edges, to help prevent break-out, should the tube be dropped on one end, kicked, etc )
I would respectfully suggest sending Jes only the bbl'd action, stripped of everything except the bolt - at least the parcel shouldn't appear to be a firearm that way.
FWIW, to thwart thieves, I mail (USPS) all my firearms, broken down & bubble-wrapped, etc, in a USPS Priority Mail delta-shaped shipping tube (marked "fragile" by me) - available free @ any US P.O., in several sizes/lengths.
(I use fiberglas-reinforced shipping tape ($3 @ WallyWorld) on all the seams/edges, to help prevent break-out, should the tube be dropped on one end, kicked, etc )
Pete44ru.... Thanks for heads up on those shipping tubes! I've seen them before but I know my local USPS wont' have them. Their office is half the size of my garage. I'm traveling the next few days so I'll stop by a bigger USPS and they should have them. Thankx!
I sent the whole rifle because Jesse agreed to shoot it to make sure the holes were round (no key-holing) and to check for acceptable accuracy ( we agreed on a certain group size as okay ). Fed Ex will insure it for just about as much as you want to pay for. Long guns come and go here on a weekly basis and I've been lucky to have just one damaged and Fed Ex cut a check for it.
I thought about the A.I. version, and at the time I could get the dies for it but not the standard conversion. However, after research I figured the A.I. might get 100 fps tops. With todays powders it was easy to get the old A.I. velocities with the standard version.
So the Marlin was shipped off to JES and returned in two weeks that's pretty darn good! It's going to be a while to do some load testing. The range I go to still has 3' to 4' feet of snow. Relocating my reloading room (still in progress) and a few fires I need to put out mostly dealing with family stuff. I have one dilemma that has cropped up regarding the Marlin. My attentions were to build a trapper/carbine rifle, something easy to carry in the woods. The Marlin is a 336A with a 24" barrel and none of my levers that I own are longer than 22". So the question is do I want to chop it or leave it? I got time to think about it.
With that cartridge you're talking maybe 15 to 20 fps per inch of barrel shortening, so no great penalties for chopping. But if the longest barrel you have is 22" maybe you have enough "choppers" and might appreciate the off-hand "holdability" of the full-length 336A. I know that I do.
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies. Patrick Henry
earlmck wrote:With that cartridge you're talking maybe 15 to 20 fps per inch of barrel shortening, so no great penalties for chopping. But if the longest barrel you have is 22" maybe you have enough "choppers" and might appreciate the off-hand "holdability" of the full-length 336A. I know that I do.
I love the "holdability" of my 26" heavy octagon mdl 94 Winchester, but... for a woods walking gun, where snap shots are likely to be the norm, the 16" Trapper shines! I really need to do some comparisons on my handloads for velocity change, but I find with good sights, even extended ranges aren't difficult.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession! AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
MaineHunter: put down the hacksaw and any thoughts of bobbing the barrel. Take the rifle out and start shooting it. You may like the way it handles and holds and performs. It just might be more accurate with a 24" barrel than a 22". 'Ya nevva' know until you shoot it. As far as cutting back to a "trapper" length, how sensitive are you to muzzle blast and noise?
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
earlmck wrote:With that cartridge you're talking maybe 15 to 20 fps per inch of barrel shortening, so no great penalties for chopping. But if the longest barrel you have is 22" maybe you have enough "choppers" and might appreciate the off-hand "holdability" of the full-length 336A. I know that I do.
I love the "holdability" of my 26" heavy octagon mdl 94 Winchester, but... for a woods walking gun, where snap shots are likely to be the norm, the 16" Trapper shines! I really need to do some comparisons on my handloads for velocity change, but I find with good sights, even extended ranges aren't difficult.
Everyone has a favorite. I find that the longer barrels - up to 32" in some cases - are very easy to carry in the woods - or at least as easy as they are to carry in the open anyway. So long as they are light enough, more longer is more betterer for me, at least over the range of commonly available barrel lengths. And they are always more accurate for me, esp. on quick snapshots (which are a rarity for me as I like to make sure of my shots) for a couple of reasons.
Never understood the draw of short barrels myself. But I'm happy others like them. Keeps the demand for the longer barreled vintage guns down just a tad and that helps with the prices.
You mentioned keeping an eye out for brass length, which ones gave you the most problems 
I know I have that article some where. I did go on-line at Wolf Publishing and looks like I can get a copy. I'm curious to know now what is the difference between 35/30-30 and 350 Maine Guide 
It's going to be a while to do some load testing. The range I go to still has 3' to 4' feet of snow. Relocating my reloading room (still in progress) and a few fires I need to put out mostly dealing with family stuff. I have one dilemma that has cropped up regarding the Marlin. My attentions were to build a trapper/carbine rifle, something easy to carry in the woods. The Marlin is a 336A with a 24" barrel and none of my levers that I own are longer than 22". So the question is do I want to chop it or leave it? I got time to think about it.
