New combinations

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marlinman93
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New combinations

Post by marlinman93 »

Picked up new to me guns, and scopes recently. I was selling a friend's estate, and ended up buying one of his Ballard Rifle Co. rifles. It was built in Cody, Wy. around 2004, and was the last of many he bought from Ballard Rifle Co. over about a decade. It's a .22LR done in their Schoyen pattern schuetzen rifle style. Has a extra heavy 30" full round barrel, Schoyen buttstock, and buttplate, with cheekpiece. Palm rest on the forearm, and nicely checkered, with a ebony insert in the forearm. Double set triggers, and set up with MVA tang sight, and Baldwin globe front. I decided to dig out an early J Unertl scope I had stashed in the safe, as the barrel had scope blocks on it also. It looked great with the old 6x Unertl on the newer Ballard, so will see some use of both scope and iron sights.

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In Nov. last year we were at the Reno gun show, and I saw a fella carrying an old long tube scope around. I asked to look at it, and after seeing it was a very early J Stevens A&T scope, and had great optics; we worked out a price. In my mind I had a gun that I hoped it would fit! I've owned an old Ballard special order #3 in .22 Long for many years, and it had holes with plug screws in the barrel, which were an odd long spacing for an early scope. I tried to put it on, but realized that this old scope used an odd size base block, and nothing I had would fit. I had a machinist friend carve me out two blocks, with the correct screw spacing, and mounted it up.
The combination of the gun, and the scope's patina appeared to be a perfect match! If I didn't know better, it looks like what was most likely on this Ballard many decades ago! The Ballard dates to around 1877, with a 4 digit serial number, and the scope dates to the early 1900's, when many old rifles began to be scoped. The #3 has special order maple stocks, with shadow line cheekpiece, and a brass crescent buttplate. The optional checkering is well worn, and barely visible on the forearm. The forearm is tipped with ebony also. The #3 was ordered sans a rear barrel sight, and has a midrange gallery tang sight, and a globe front. After nearly 140 years, it's still got a surprisingly good bore, and shoots well. Now it looks complete, and I don't have to look at those filled holes and wonder what it used to look like!

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fordwannabe
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Re: New combinations

Post by fordwannabe »

In a word..WOW.
a Pennsylvanian who has been accused of clinging to my religion and my guns......Good assessment skills.
Booger Bill
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Re: New combinations

Post by Booger Bill »

My grandpa had this. I think the picture probably was taken around Bettendorf Iowa as that`s where he was from. The picture probably dates in the early 1900`s. Should be a few similar rifles in it.

Image
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Re: New combinations

Post by Blaine »

fordwannabe wrote:In a word..WOW.
+1 :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Ray Newman
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Re: New combinations

Post by Ray Newman »

Be still my heart!

Do not have an original Ballard, but I was wise enough to purchase a #5 Pacific .45-2.1" (.45-70) and a #7 Long Range .40-65 when Steve Garby was working for Ballard. Very fine workmanship and of course wonderful set triggers that break as clean as glass!

Last month the "discovery" of the ever-elusive and extremely rare #5 1/2 Montana was discussed in a thread on the Marlin Owner's forum:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/marli ... -help.html
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: New combinations

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Omigosh, what a gorgeous Ballard! My fellow Oregonian "done good."
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marlinman93
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Re: New combinations

Post by marlinman93 »

Ray Newman wrote:Be still my heart!


Last month the "discovery" of the ever-elusive and extremely rare #5 1/2 Montana was discussed in a thread on the Marlin Owner's forum:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/marli ... -help.html
My friend had 4 Cody Ballards. A #4 DST, in .22 LR, and another #4 identical in .45-70. Had a #6 Offhand in .38-50 Remington Hepburn, and then this Schoyen in .22LR.
Hope to shoot the Schoyen soon, if weather gets better. It has a Badger barrel, with a match chamber. Almost chambers a .22LR, and the breechblock finishes the chambering. My friend was casting his own 40 gr. bullets, and pulling .22LR bullets to reload them with his powder and bullet. I found one box made up, and marked, "Holy Grail" on top. Also found a Paul Jones mold for the bullet, and some cast bullets. Not sure I'll go the reloading .22LR route though.
I never wanted a Cody Ballard, as I was stuck on original Ballards. But I had this gun about 3 weeks, as I was selling his estate. Every time someone made an offer, or asked the price, I felt a little pang of something. I eventually realized I couldn't sell his favorite gun, and made his wife an offer. She was happy I was buying it, and knocked my offer down some more, as she said Fred would be happy I was going to keep it. And I am happy too!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
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marlinman93
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Re: New combinations

Post by marlinman93 »

Bill in Oregon wrote:Omigosh, what a gorgeous Ballard! My fellow Oregonian "done good."
Thanks Bill! Had to really step up, as it cost more than my 26 original Marlin Ballards each cost me. But I'm glad I did it.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
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6pt-sika
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Re: New combinations

Post by 6pt-sika »

Some day I'd like to have a recent Ballard in the Schoyen schuetzen style in 28-30 or 32-40 . And a CPA Pope Schuetzen in either of the same calibers !

And of course Lyman Super Target Spots or Unertls to go on top !

But that little Ballard Schoyen you just got is rather sharp !
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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Re: New combinations

Post by 6pt-sika »

MM93 is that Unertl scope the "small game" or the "gallery" scope ?

I remember looking at them in Shooters Bible back when I was a little guy .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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marlinman93
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Re: New combinations

Post by marlinman93 »

6pt-sika wrote:MM93 is that Unertl scope the "small game" or the "gallery" scope ?

I remember looking at them in Shooters Bible back when I was a little guy .
Thanks! I'm uncertain how to tell the difference in the two scopes, but I believe this J Unertl dates back to his earliest days, as it has Lyman mounts John Unertl used then, and no serial number, like later Unertls all had. Being a 6x also would indicate it's likely a "small game", as I believe the Gallery weren't this high a magnification.
CPA's can still be purchased, but not a Ballard. The company in Cody sold to a Michigan man in 2007, and he moved the company to Michigan. None of the former employees would move, so he started out from scratch after the move. After raising prices to astronomical $4500-$7000 levels, they closed their doors a couple years ago. No word since then, even though their web site still exists.
I just sold off 13 Lyman Super Targetspots, and Lyman Junior Targetspots from my friend's collection. Everything from a 6x to 30x, and all sizes in between! Put them on the ASSRA forum and they went in one day.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
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Re: New combinations

Post by Ray Newman »

MarlinMan: I looked for an original #5 for several years, but never could find one within the price range/limit and condition that I set. Then at the 1998 (or was it the 1999 SHOT Show?) Cody-made Ballard had a booth, well the rest is history.

When I was in California, one of the more mature shooters had a .22 Ballard -- all original -- and a Pope-Stevens .22 LR. With Federal (?) target grade ammunition, those two rifles would shoot just about a one-hole 5 shot group on demand! Even with so-called junk bulk .22 LR from Wal-Mart and the local Coast To Coast hardware store, those rifles shot exceedingly well. He also had two all original (and lettered) Winchester M1885 .32-40 Schuetzen rifles that would make the X ring tremble at 100 and 200 yards.
Last edited by Ray Newman on Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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rjohns94
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Re: New combinations

Post by rjohns94 »

Stunning
Mike Johnson,

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marlinman93
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Re: New combinations

Post by marlinman93 »

Ray Newman wrote:MarlinMan: I looked for an original #5 for several years, but never could find one within the price range/limit and condition that I set. Then at the 1998 (or was it the 1999 SHOT Show?) Cody-made Ballard had a booth, well the rest is history.

When I was in California, one of the more mature shooters had a .22 Ballard -- all original -- and a Pope-Stevens .22 LR. With Federal (?) target grade ammunition, those two rifles would shoot just about a one-hole 5 shot group on demand! Even with so-called junk bulk .22 LR from Wal-Mart and the local Coast To Coast hardware store, those rifles shot exceedingly well. He also had two all original (and lettered) Winchester M1885 .32-40 Schuetzen rifles that would make the X ring tremble at 100 and 200 yards.
I've collected Marlin Ballards for decades, and was fortunate to acquire an interest before the Quigley craze, and everyone going single shot rifle nuts. I bought my #5 Pacific at a local antique auction for a whopping $410, and even then I was very excited at the price! The auction had it listed as a "Marlin muzzleloader"! I chuckled when I looked at it during pre auction. The bore was perfect, and wiping rod was missing. Covered in a brown fuzz, but I rubbed a clean spot on a bottom barrel flat, and saw nice bluing under the fuzz. I have a couple dozen original Marlin Ballards, but this is my first (and probably only) clone. From what I see, the Cody Ballard is as good, (and maybe better) than the original Ballards!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
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marlinman93
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Re: New combinations

Post by marlinman93 »

rjohns94 wrote:Stunning
Thanks!
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Old No7
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Re: New combinations

Post by Old No7 »

Wow...

One word -- no -- not even 100 words are enough to respond to those first pix.

My late father had 2 original Ballard's in 38-55 and another in 22 LR; those went to my 3 brothers and I got a High Wall 38-55 and 22. He instilled a love in old single shots in all 4 of us boys.

Wow, he would have loved that one. Very nice! :mrgreen:

Tight groups.

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6pt-sika
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Re: New combinations

Post by 6pt-sika »

marlinman93 wrote:
6pt-sika wrote:MM93 is that Unertl scope the "small game" or the "gallery" scope ?

I remember looking at them in Shooters Bible back when I was a little guy .
Thanks! I'm uncertain how to tell the difference in the two scopes, but I believe this J Unertl dates back to his earliest days, as it has Lyman mounts John Unertl used then, and no serial number, like later Unertls all had. Being a 6x also would indicate it's likely a "small game", as I believe the Gallery weren't this high a magnification.
CPA's can still be purchased, but not a Ballard. The company in Cody sold to a Michigan man in 2007, and he moved the company to Michigan. None of the former employees would move, so he started out from scratch after the move. After raising prices to astronomical $4500-$7000 levels, they closed their doors a couple years ago. No word since then, even though their web site still exists.
I just sold off 13 Lyman Super Targetspots, and Lyman Junior Targetspots from my friend's collection. Everything from a 6x to 30x, and all sizes in between! Put them on the ASSRA forum and they went in one day.
You have an original Zischang don't you ? Not sure if I spelled it correctly .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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marlinman93
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Re: New combinations

Post by marlinman93 »

6pt-sika wrote:
marlinman93 wrote:
You have an original Zischang don't you ? Not sure if I spelled it correctly .
No, I don't have a Zischang Ballard. Wish I did! I have an original Schoyen Ballard, and a Zettler Bros. Ballard.

Schoyen Ballard .38-55:
Image

Zettler Bros. Ballard .22 Short:
Image
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marlinman93
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Re: New combinations

Post by marlinman93 »

Old No7 wrote:Wow...

One word -- no -- not even 100 words are enough to respond to those first pix.

My late father had 2 original Ballard's in 38-55 and another in 22 LR; those went to my 3 brothers and I got a High Wall 38-55 and 22. He instilled a love in old single shots in all 4 of us boys.

Wow, he would have loved that one. Very nice! :mrgreen:

Tight groups.

Old No7
Thanks Old No7! I recently sold both my Win. 1885's. One Low wall and one High Wall. Both special sporting, with small Swiss buttplates. Wish I could keep them all, but finances require something I love less to go for something I love more. The Ballards, and Remington single shots take up all my time and funds.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
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Re: New combinations

Post by yooper2 »

Absolutely wonderful! Great combinations of rifles and glass.


Eric
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marlinman93
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Re: New combinations

Post by marlinman93 »

yooper2 wrote:Absolutely wonderful! Great combinations of rifles and glass.


Eric
Thanks Eric!
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marlinman93
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Re: New combinations

Post by marlinman93 »

Booger Bill wrote:My grandpa had this. I think the picture probably was taken around Bettendorf Iowa as that`s where he was from. The picture probably dates in the early 1900`s. Should be a few similar rifles in it.

Image
Blew your picture up quite large, and saw a couple Winchester 1885 Low wall singles, and a couple repeaters. Don't see any Ballards or Schuetzen rifles in the picture though? Surprising, considering Davenport, Iowa was a huge area for schuetzen competition!
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Re: New combinations

Post by Griff »

marlinman93 wrote:
Ray Newman wrote:MarlinMan: I looked for an original #5 for several years, but never could find one within the price range/limit and condition that I set. Then at the 1998 (or was it the 1999 SHOT Show?) Cody-made Ballard had a booth, well the rest is history.

When I was in California, one of the more mature shooters had a .22 Ballard -- all original -- and a Pope-Stevens .22 LR. With Federal (?) target grade ammunition, those two rifles would shoot just about a one-hole 5 shot group on demand! Even with so-called junk bulk .22 LR from Wal-Mart and the local Coast To Coast hardware store, those rifles shot exceedingly well. He also had two all original (and lettered) Winchester M1885 .32-40 Schuetzen rifles that would make the X ring tremble at 100 and 200 yards.
I've collected Marlin Ballards for decades, and was fortunate to acquire an interest before the Quigley craze, and everyone going single shot rifle nuts. I bought my #5 Pacific at a local antique auction for a whopping $410, and even then I was very excited at the price! The auction had it listed as a "Marlin muzzleloader"! I chuckled when I looked at it during pre auction. The bore was perfect, and wiping rod was missing. Covered in a brown fuzz, but I rubbed a clean spot on a bottom barrel flat, and saw nice bluing under the fuzz. I have a couple dozen original Marlin Ballards, but this is my first (and probably only) clone. From what I see, the Cody Ballard is as good, (and maybe better) than the original Ballards!
Don't tell Hank M. in Payson about it!
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marlinman93
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Re: New combinations

Post by marlinman93 »

Griff wrote:Don't tell Hank M. in Payson about it!
About what Griff?
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Re: New combinations

Post by Griff »

marlinman93 wrote:
Griff wrote:Don't tell Hank M. in Payson about it!
About what Griff?
Yer new Ballard, he'll be wantin' to drool over it! Not that I don't!
Griff,
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