Using .401 plated bullets in .38-40...yes?..No?

[snkbittin]

just curious if you can load up using bullet heads intended for 10MM/.40 Smith
Lee factory crimp die solves the no crimp grove
my son shoots stuff loads of 40 smith and has plated and jacketed bullets due to the Polygonal barrels in the HK's
and i can grab some when i need

[jhrosier]

Watch your velocity.
I think that the plated bullets are limited to about 1200 fps.
You already know about no crimp.
Are the noses flat enough for feeding through a tubular rifle magazine or are you loading them just for revolvers?

Jack

[Chuck 100 yd]

Taper crimp them for the .38-40. The Lee FCD can fracture the thin plating if overdone. No crimp is needed if the sizing die and expander dimentions give a good tight friction fit, a.k.a. Bullet pull.
Keep velocitys below 1K in most cases.

[snkbittin]

Watch your velocity.
I think that the plated bullets are limited to about 1200 fps.
You already know about no crimp.
Are the noses flat enough for feeding through a tubular rifle magazine or are you loading them just for revolvers?

Jack

Yes Jack flat nose...they would be going thru a 92...you can run quality plated stuff hotter than that but im not looking for a barn burner just a fun load

[snkbittin]

Taper crimp them for the .38-40. The Lee FCD can fracture the thin plating if overdone. No crimp is needed if the sizing die and expander dimentions give a good tight friction fit, a.k.a. Bullet pull.
Keep velocitys below 1K in most cases.

yes but the Lee is adjustable from nothing to bone crunching...never had a prob with 9mm .45acp and .38 Super..like anything with this a
fully functional brain is very helpful

[EdinCT]

I have shot them in the 38 wcf at <1350fps with out problems. I even filed the plate off the tip and checked the expansion and was surprised to see a nice flattened end about .5 inch when shot through water. Not sure I want to do that again though.

[snkbittin]

I have shot them in the 38 wcf at <1350fps with out problems. I even filed the plate off the tip and checked the expansion and was surprised to see a nice flattened end about .5 inch when shot through water. Not sure I want to do that again though.

not sure you want to file the tip or use the plated bullets?

[3leggedturtle]

I've pushed the .357 125gr hp's and the .45 200gr fp's to 15-1600 fp's. Both from Berry. Think they purposely underrate how fast they cast be shot.

[EdinCT]

Not sure if I would file them off, some of the plating peeled off with the expansion. I will admit I have some Speers that seem to have a thicker plate with the tip filed off flat to try.

[Sixgun]

ANY bullet design cast or jacketed at .399-.402 from lightweight (160?) to heavy (200?) can be used in the 38-40 as long as you stay within parameters for each individual gun........common sense here.....no pointy bullets in tubes.......using correct overall length......powder to match the bullet weight........correct diameter......you get the picture.

I started shooting the 38-40 back in the early nineties and have since fired at least 20,000 rounds in many different guns with about 95% of the bullets being the 170 gr. TC bullet that was designed for the 40 S & W that I cast from a 4 cavity Lyman mould. All have been sized .401. I have also been happy with the same TC lead bullet in 200 gr. These were store bought.

The 38-40 is not a hot rod round as most guns (except ones like the Ruger BlkHwk) are only designed
For mid range loads. My velocities for single action Colts, Colt New Services, and one lone Ruger are running about 900. For rifles from Colt Lightnings, 92 Winchesters, Remington 14 and 1/2, 73 Winchesters, 94 Marlins........these are all original guns.......velocity is 12-14. In fact, I have simplified my loads for all guns, revolvers and rifles with 9 grains of Herco and the 170 Lyman TC.

I do keep a few boxes of light loads with 6 grains of Bullseye around also.--------6

[southfork]

Do you think that Herco load is safe in your Model 1873 38-40? Or do you only use the 6 grains of Bullseye in the 1873? I haven't seen Herco powder in my neck of the woods recently, but would like to start reloading for my 1873 lever action.

[Sixgun]

Do you think that Herco load is safe in your Model 1873 38-40? Or do you only use the 6 grains of Bullseye in the 1873? I haven't seen Herco powder in my neck of the woods recently, but would like to start reloading for my 1873 lever action.

Yep,it's safe.......in a good gun........Herco burns slower than Unique and is more accurate. Ken Waters writes extensively about Herco in a 73 and my load of 9 grains gives about 1200. The 6 grains of Bullseye gives match velocity...1050...and is extremely accurate and it's like shooting 22 shorts in a model 52 Winchester........about no recoil. Herco is somewhat hard to find but my bud gunshop owner always manages to find me an 8 pounder from time to time. I also use the same load in the 44-40.----6

[southfork]

But, 6, is your 44-40 bullet also 170 grains, or is it 200 grains with the 9 gr of Herco powder?

[Sixgun]

But, 6, is your 44-40 bullet also 170 grains, or is it 200 grains with the 9 gr of Herco powder?

200. .......and I shoot lots of both in 1873's.......about the same pressures as black.........virtually no back thrust against the bolt. On ignition, most all of the pressure is contained against the chamber wall.

Get Ken Waters big book on "Pet Loads"----6

[OldWin]

Do you think that Herco load is safe in your Model 1873 38-40? Or do you only use the 6 grains of Bullseye in the 1873? I haven't seen Herco powder in my neck of the woods recently, but would like to start reloading for my 1873 lever action.

Yep,it's safe.......in a good gun........Herco burns slower than Unique and is more accurate. Ken Waters writes extensively about Herco in a 73 and my load of 9 grains gives about 1200. The 6 grains of Bullseye gives match velocity...1050...and is extremely accurate and it's like shooting 22 shorts in a model 52 Winchester........about no recoil. Herco is somewhat hard to find but my bud gunshop owner always manages to find me an 8 pounder from time to time. I also use the same load in the 44-40.----6

Thanks for the tip bud! I've never tried Herco (may be a tough find up here) but seein' as I'm a 38-40 junky, I'm going to have to make a point of trying this. It would be nice to one load I could use in my 92's, 73's, and my lone 89 Marlin. The 1200fps number is the spot I look for to go from a range/plink load to a field load. It's no prob with the 92's and 89, but a little more dicey with my 73's while maintaining a margin of safety for the old girls.

[Sixgun]

Jay,
I was looking at my notes last night and it seems I was a bit off on the velocity. And original 73 and a 92 give velocities in the high 1300's. In original single action Colts velocities are just a hair over 1000.

Keep in mind my guns are in perfect condition with near perfect tolerances with bight bores.


Like I said earlier, no load matches 6 grains of Bullseye for accuracy in either the 38 or 44 wcf's but dang.....feels funny shooting such a light load in a 9 pound rifle. I like a little "kick".

Two years ago at the PA. State Champs a well known shooter forgot to bring his rifle for the long range cowboy silhouette and to which I told him, "No need to go home, I have a spare 1892 in 44-40". He took me up on it and after the match he told me that was the sweetest rifle and load he ever shot and asked me what the load was.....I told him, "10 grains of Herco and a 210 gr. Hensley and Gibb cast bullet"-----6

[OldWin]

Wow, that's incredible velocity, man.

Haha, I figured it went without saying that your stuff was all minty and awesome.
I'm up for adoption, by the way. Maybe I can cut a deal with your son.

My 73's got that "well loved" look in the finish department, but the actions and bores are very good. The .38 is a SRC that is a really good shooter. I have a rifle in .44 that takes more fooling (as typical), so I'm real curious to try the Herco in this one.

Thanks again Jack,
Jay

[southfork]

Besides my 1884-vintage Model 1873 Winchester in 44-40, I also have a Marlin Ballard in 44-40 (very sound condition, but Not a forged steel receiver). If the Herco powder recipe mentioned by Sixgun should safely work with a 200 grain lead bullet in the 1873 Winchester, wouldn't it also be OK in the 1870's vintage Marlin Ballard?

[Sixgun]

Besides my 1884-vintage Model 1873 Winchester in 44-40, I also have a Marlin Ballard in 44-40 (very sound condition, but Not a forged steel receiver). If the Herco powder recipe mentioned by Sixgun should safely work with a 200 grain lead bullet in the 1873 Winchester, wouldn't it also be OK in the 1870's vintage Marlin Ballard?

Well, that question is beyond the scope of my knowledge as I never played with an original Ballard or really examined one.

I'd bet my near new deluxe sporting rifle half rd/oct. Remington Keene in 45-70 that if you drop a grain of Herco or for that matter, if you have trouble getting Herco, use 7 grains of Unique and that would be equal to the 6 grains of Bullseye load to which you will be fine.......with thousands of loads.

I'm no expert but I do read a lot and am an incurable experimenter. With light loads that I have talked about there is virtually no back thrust against the bolt. With a fast burning powder the brass expands against the chamber walls and holds there until the bullet is out of the barrel, unlike large charges of slower powder.

But...........these loads are not for the guy who talks on the phone while loading as one mistake will send a $5,000 gun to pieces or at the least, will slop up the tolerances.

That's why a lot of guys like Trail Boss or blackpowder. Ya can't stick enough in there to hurt anything but at 62 and using all of the traditional powders since 1972, I ain't changing now. Besides, I never did let fear run my life. Stupidity a few times has controlled me, but not fear.

If your really interested I'll take a picture of my loading notes on 1873's and post em.-------6

[southfork]

Yes, I would be interested in seeing some of your loading notes if you would post them. Thanks!

[Bob Hatfield]

I feel that you can only get so much friction from the thin case necks no matter how tight your dies will size the 38 WCF brass. So without a cannelure you'll have to crimp the case into the bullet to sort of fashion one if your not using black. The Extreme line of plated bullets are double plated if I remember correctly?

As far as powder goes I load 8 grains of Unique with an unknown 180 grain RNFP bullet with purple lube in the 38-40 for a 73 Winchester (1884). Seems safe in this rifle as I've fired several hundred without problems although time will tell if 8 grains of Unique is too hot. It will hold a nice round inch and a half group at 50 yards with sometimes 3 holes touching and then the last two opening up the group. I have to raise the rear sight one click to get it on at 100 yards. The velocity is around 1250 fps. I'll have to buy some Herco and try it.

Bob

[marlinman93]

I personally have chosen not to run anything but cast lead bullets through my old guns. The barrel steel of old guns is softer than modern smokeless steel barrels. Putting jacketed bullets down an old bore is doing a disservice to a gun that's survived in shootable condition for 100 years or more!