OT: Black Powder Rifle Building

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:25 pm

Anyone here build their own black powder guns? Care to share pictures, target, gear, etc? I found www.trackofthewolf.com and was thinking of getting a kit and trying a build some day.

Johnny

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:27 pm

You should also try www.americanlongrifles.com (I moderate there, too).

I don't build anymore. I don't think I'm good enough. There are a BUNCH of pros over there and they are GREAT guys, just like here!

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:10 pm

Okay Hobie so you've got to have some rifles and/or gear laying around. Lets see some of it.

Two rifles that I want, a Hawkens and a Whitworth. I see that Navy Arms sales a Whitworth that is .451 Don't know much about casting but it seems black powder would be a good way to get into and learn about both.

Johnny

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:19 pm

No I don't, nothing I've done. It has all gone to others to "fix" and use. As I said, I wasn't any good. I just don't have the eye for the lines. Mechanically I'm ok but my aesthetics suck.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:48 pm

I've thought of doing that for a number of years. Here's another site you might like to look at. I've drooled over their pieces for as long as I've had the urge; http://www.tennesseevalleymanufacturing.com/

It looks like they're currently carrying only one kit. They used to carry about 10.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:54 pm

I built a T/C Hawken, .54 from one of their kits many years ago. Sold it off a few months later for a Uberti built copy of a J&S Hawken in .53 cal. The kit only re,quired metal & wood finish, and I did that poorly.

The Uberti with its longer barrel & 1:66 twist is a much better RB shooter, evwn with its primitive sights.

And, far better lookin'!

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:33 pm

I use these guys:

http://www.longrifles-pr.com/index.shtml

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:58 pm

Here's my Mule Deer gun, TC Hawkins .54 After market round ball barrel, rust brown finish on the barrels/lock and solid brass ram rods.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:28 pm

Here is my .50 cal Lyman GPR and a Pietta 1860 .44 and a CVA .45 kit pistol that I built when I was 16. I am currently making a bowie and a patch knife out of an old horse rasp that I am working on. The antlers that you see in the pic will end up as the handles for the two knifes and hopefully a short start and powder measure for my rifle.

Almost forgot, checkout www.muzzleloadingforum.com

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:45 pm

I started a left-hand .54 percussion Hawken fullstock back in the late 70's and quickly realized I did not have the necessary skills. This was not a kit gun. The various parts were purchased from several sources advertised in "Muzzle Blasts", the official magazine of the national Muzzle Loading Rifle Association.

The job was turned over to Art, a very good friend who made me a fine rifle of the parts. He later built me a fantastic left-hand .62 caliber flintlock early Hawken style rifle that is an exceptional shooter.

Unfortunately Art passed on a few years back. I was able to purchase a few of the guns he built for himself.

Here is a pic of my flintlock collection. Top gun is the .62 Hawken rifle by Art; second is a .62 smoothbore trade gun by Art; third is a left-hand .54 caliber rifle with swamped barrel built in Oregon by Don Reimer; bottom is a nice little .45 caliber Kentucky style pistol built by Art.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:08 pm

salvo wrote:Here's my Mule Deer gun, TC Hawkins .54 After market round ball barrel, rust brown finish on the barrels/lock and solid brass ram rods.

What makes a barrel a "round ball barrel"? Can/do you swap the two barrels pictured, if so, why?

DerekR · Post by **DerekR** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:49 pm

Hey Salvo....what kind of rear sight is that on your Hawken? Looks better than the factory sight.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:54 pm

I built it in 1984-85 so my memory is a bit fuzzy as far as twist rates go, but the long barrel that is installed is the round ball barrel, it was made to just shoot round balls, it has a different twist rate and deeper rifling. The other barrel came with the rifle, it is made to shoot conicals and round balls, kinda an all around barrel. They do interchange if I ever want to shoot conicals.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:05 pm

OK, so there IS a difference between round ball and conical rifling, thanks!

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:10 pm

DerekR, I don't remember the name of the rear sight, but I can tell you it is a very nice sight and would be worth looking for one from one of the black powder suppliers.
Here are a few pictures of it and the front sight.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:19 pm

awp101 wrote:OK, so there IS a difference between round ball and conical rifling, thanks!

Yes round ball twist are slow usualy 1/48 or slower dependeing on the caliber.

Here is my TC Renegade .50cal that I put together.

Kit

Completed rifle

My boys and I put it together our selves

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:52 am

Just so you're not disappointed a "kit" from Track of the Wolf is not a kit. IIRC somewhere in the pages of the hard copy of their catalog they make that statement. A lot of companies like T/C or CVA have put out kits in that past that would basically go together just as you got them from the factory. All that was basically needed was to sand, stain, and shoot.

Track lists their parts together in groups for ease of shopping. there is more that needs to be done to make a functioning rifle when you purchase your parts from Track. This is not to say that there's anything wrong with that, when you buy from them you do get top quality parts. they also backorder out of stock parts quite often.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:05 am

Thanks Rusty, I didn't know that.

What tools are needed to build a kit? Guess that depends on which kit you buy, huh? Also, how do yall blue the parts? Would a cold blue work?

T/C looks to be the budget kit to purcahse and start with. That Lyman GPR is nice though.

Johnny

perry owens · Post by **perry owens** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:40 am

The Rifle Shoppe http://www.therifleshoppe.com/ has some nice kits but they are not inexpensive. I built their Baker Rifle kit last winter, my first attempt at a kit, and I was surprised at how well it turned out. My home machine shop is back in England so here in New York I only had hand tools, a Dremel and a Workmate as a bench. The metal parts are mostly cast from original parts so a lot of hand finishing is required. The stock was very well inlet and really just required staining and finishing.Hardest part for me was cutting the dovetails for the sights and the three fittings to take the keys that hold the barrel on. Browning the barrel proved to be a problem in a low-humidity winter. I used Laurel Mountain Forge cold browning solution but on my first attempt nothing happened at all. In the end I heated up the guest bathroom to 100F, ran the shower at max for 10 minutes and then suspended the treated barrel above the tub full of hot water. Final result was a deep brown barrel(and a very angry wife).
Perry Owens

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:27 am

http://www.flintlocks.com/

Some of the best in the business. Bar none.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:08 pm

awp101 wrote:OK, so there IS a difference between round ball and conical rifling, thanks!

For the .50 cal & up rifles, conicals, being heavier, need a faster twist to stabilize. From my reading, I understand a 1:36" for a .54 cal is optimal. From my experience w/my two forays into muzzloading, the 1:48" T/C uses in the majority of its kits and completed rifles is considered a "compromise" twist. They will generally have deeper riflling also. Actual accuracy will be quite dependent on indivvidual barrel's quality and the variable assembly of the componentry you select for your BP shooting. For RBs, the slower 1:66" is more conducive to fine accuracy with its higher launch speeds.

Then there's always the matter of "concentracity and its effect on projectile stability, swaged vs. cast, shallow vs. deep rifling, patch thickness, powder grade or quality, then "sprue up vs. down"! Ad Infinitum!

moodyholler · Post by **moodyholler** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:39 pm

My Father-in-Law's Christmas present I built him this past year from assorted parts. Kind of a Wv/ Va rifle post Civli War. Used a Vincent pattern stock with no inletting to start with. I have built 11 over the years and hope to start building more now that time is easing up. Later, moodyholler

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:47 pm

perry owens wrote:The Rifle Shoppe http://www.therifleshoppe.com/ has some nice kits but they are not inexpensive. I built their Baker Rifle kit last winter, my first attempt at a kit, and I was surprised at how well it turned out.

I REALLY want one of those...

DerekR · Post by **DerekR** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:09 pm

Good looking work Moodyholler!