POLITICS - Global Warming,better believe it

[big bear]

I am already preparing to duck for cover, butwhere I live there is evidence of significant and in our case catastrophic climate change. Here in British Columbia because of a long stretch of warm winters (many ,many years where winter temperatures don't stay cold enough, long enough to kill the pine beetle have allowed the beetle to kill 80-90% of the lodgepole pine trees in the province (all the interior). 30 years ago when I would go north to moose hunt and east for elk and mule deer there were oceans of green forest, now its all red, dead trees. A study just released show that these dead trees are accelerating the problem as they are releaseing more CO2 as they decay rather than removing it as living forests do. Just heard from a friend in the Northwest Territories that increasing numbers of skinny polar bears are being seen. Do not mistake me for a tree hugger, bunny lover. I worked as a logger to pay for my education and I live to hunt. I think I would fall into what you folks would call a libiterian category. I worry however about the lack of concern I see in all of us about the way things are going, I think it is time for change, because if you haven't noticed the old ways ain't workin so well anymore, now I'll duck behind this big ol rock here Think about it and have a good day!

[rjohns94]

what do you suggest by way of change? on the news each morning, I hear an advertisement that the real problem behind the "global warming" is too much domestic live stock and to help the environment, we all should turn to a vegetarian diet. The add states that green house gas emissions are mostly from Cows, vice autos or industry. That would be change, but not one I am in favor of. What changes do you think should be made?

[PaperPatch]

I understand that during the most recent ice age...the Northern Polar ice cap used to reach to what is now Kansas.

We've been warmin up ever since...and will continue to do so until the next ice age commences.

Enjoy the ride.

[Hagler]

Good people,

Without a doubt, the number 1 cause of global warming is the sun. Extinguish that gasball, and our problems are over.

Shawn

[Hobie]

Climate change has happened continuously since the planet was formed. Lacking climate change there would be nothing as it is now. To expect it to be as it is now or as it was 53 years ago when I was born is stupid to a degree I cannot fathom.

Now, we hear that since 1998 the climate has been cooling and that this is directly tied to decreased sunspot activity DESPITE higher CO2 levels. So, I call the CO2 global warming thing for what it is, a scam to make money. The do gooders will kill us all because they are such non-critical thinkers. Humans have existed for millenia because we ADAPT TO not because we can CHANGE the climate. We move, we dig in to the ground, we strip off, we dress warm, we build fires, we even change our social order, but we've never changed the climate. These arrogant fools who propagandize that we can do such are simply out for their own piece of the pie. Only this past week or so Al Gore, high priest of the church of global warming, admitted that he makes a money from this "cause".

If I haven't been frank enough, let me state it clearly. "Global warming" is a cult that is worse than the FLDS because it will kill millions of people by the unreasonable/illogical acts they propose.

You might want to read this post. http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... highlight=

[KirkD]

...on the news each morning, I hear an advertisement that the real problem behind the "global warming" is too much domestic live stock and to help the environment, we all should turn to a vegetarian diet.

Well, I don't know about that. When I eat cabbage, the gas emissions are definitely way higher than when I eat beef.

[Grizz]

Maybe I can ease your concerns a little.

Climate changes. Human beings cannot make it change, and human beings can't stop it from changing.

That would be like thinking we could stop a volcano or an earthquake. Why should we have any more power over the weather?

Oh, it's the carbon thing eh? Well, here's a little secret, we're made of carbon, plus a few other things. Our entire ecosystem is based on carbon. If you take carbon away, everyone and almost everything will die.

In addition: the processes heating the earth are not under our control. The carbon everyone is excited about is a RESULT of the planet warming trend, NOT the cause of it. There is TONS of evidence that cinches this.

And finally, al gore is a world-class idiot, and insane to boot. Please don't be swayed by an insane idiot.

Whatever climate changes you experience are natural and variable and will change over time. You just don't have enough time to see it play out.

Alarmists are agitating to create fear and mass hysteria, and doing a pretty good job of it.

Just relax, YOU CANNOT DO A SINGLE THING TO ALTER THE CLIMATE CYCLES, any more than you can stop a volcano from erupting or prevent an earthquake. Get used to it.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Good people,

Without a doubt, the number 1 cause of global warming is the sun. Extinguish that gasball, and our problems are over.

Shawn

You're killing me.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

...............................we all should turn to a vegetarian diet.................................

Vegetables? Aint that what food eats?

[Hagler]

...well, you Darwinists need to evolve. Remember the term survival of the fitest? If you can't hack the "climate change", then you ain't fit to survive.

Shawn

[mescalero1]

Hobie,
That would be the Mauder minimum, a cyclical pattern of reduced sunspot activity, that reduces the amount of solar radiation that reaches the earth.
Climatologists indeed believe we are entering such a period.

[El Mac]

Climate change has happened continuously since the planet was formed. Lacking climate change there would be nothing as it is now. To expect it to be as it is now or as it was 53 years ago when I was born is stupid to a degree I cannot fathom.

Now, we hear that since 1998 the climate has been cooling and that this is directly tied to decreased sunspot activity DESPITE higher CO2 levels. So, I call the CO2 global warming thing for what it is, a scam to make money. The do gooders will kill us all because they are such non-critical thinkers. Humans have existed for millenia because we ADAPT TO not because we can CHANGE the climate. We move, we dig in to the ground, we strip off, we dress warm, we build fires, we even change our social order, but we've never changed the climate. These arrogant fools who propagandize that we can do such are simply out for their own piece of the pie. Only this past week or so Al Gore, high priest of the church of global warming, admitted that he makes a money from this "cause".

If I haven't been frank enough, let me state it clearly. "Global warming" is a cult that is worse than the FLDS because it will kill millions of people by the unreasonable/illogical acts they propose.

You might want to read this post. http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... highlight=

Excellent post!

[AJMD429]

Climate change has happened continuously since the planet was formed. Lacking climate change there would be nothing as it is now. To expect it to be as it is now or as it was 53 years ago when I was born is stupid to a degree I cannot fathom.

Now, we hear that since 1998 the climate has been cooling and that this is directly tied to decreased sunspot activity DESPITE higher CO2 levels. So, I call the CO2 global warming thing for what it is, a scam to make money. The do gooders will kill us all because they are such non-critical thinkers. Humans have existed for millenia because we ADAPT TO not because we can CHANGE the climate. We move, we dig in to the ground, we strip off, we dress warm, we build fires, we even change our social order, but we've never changed the climate. These arrogant fools who propagandize that we can do such are simply out for their own piece of the pie. Only this past week or so Al Gore, high priest of the church of global warming, admitted that he makes a money from this "cause".

If I haven't been frank enough, let me state it clearly. "Global warming" is a cult that is worse than the FLDS because it will kill millions of people by the unreasonable/illogical acts they propose.

You might want to read this post. http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... highlight=

Geez, Hobie - I was all fired up to respond, then I read your post, and you'd already said everything I was going to say.

Worse yet, you said it better than I'd have said it..!

[Hobie]

Hobie,
That would be the Mauder minimum, a cyclical pattern of reduced sunspot activity, that reduces the amount of solar radiation that reaches the earth.
Climatologists indeed believe we are entering such a period.

Thanks for posting that which is, as you know, correct. They were even saying that it could be the most minimum in a long time. But do they KNOW?

[Hobie]

I'm sorry if I stole your thunder. Mrs. Hobie runs me out of the room when this subject arises on her TV. I'm like one of those inductor (whatever) stove tops, I come to a full boil in less than 90 seconds!

[Noah Zark]

Good people,

Without a doubt, the number 1 cause of global warming is the sun. Extinguish that gasball, and our problems are over.

Shawn

Shawn, IMO you are closest to the reason for the earth being warmer at the moment.

99.9% of the energy that makes the wind blow, moces ocean currents, and grows trees and crops comes from the sun. If the sun simply switched off, we'd all freeze within 48 to 72 hrs.

The sun's solar activity has waxed and waned throughout history. A drop in solar activity in the Middle Ages resulted in a period of reduced temperatures in Northern climes, and covered Greenland with ice. From 700 AD to around 1400-1500 AD, Greenland was just that -- green, and covered with lush, productive farms. In the space of two to three generations, farming on Greenland ended. This "Little Ice Age" as it was called ended in the middle 1800s following an uptick in solar activity that started about 10 to 15 years prior to that. There was a slight drop in solar activity in the middle of the 1900s, and the 50s through early 80s were cooler. Again, in the late 70s solar activity picked up and has remained high, with global temps on the uptake.

But that current solar cycle is reaching an historic peak, and many scientists predict that a decrease in solar activity is due to start in the next decade. About five to 15 years after that, global temps will start to drop, as they have regularly for centuries.

What will Al Gore have to say about that?

I'm with Hobie, the whole "carbon credit trading" thing is a money-making scam.

Noah

[don Tomás]

Scientist: Forget Global Warming, Prepare for New Ice Age

Sunspot activity has not resumed up after hitting an 11-year low in March last year, raising fears that — far from warming — the globe is about to return to an Ice Age, says an Australian-American scientist.

Physicist Phil Chapman, the first native-born Australian to become an astronaut with NASA [he became an American citizen to join up, though he never went into space], said pictures from the U.S. Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) showed no spots on the sun.

He said the world cooled quickly between January last year and January this year, by about 0.7 degrees Centigrade.

"This is the fastest temperature change in the instrumental record, and it puts us back to where we were in 1930," Chapman wrote in The Australian Wednesday. "If the temperature does not soon recover, we will have to conclude that global warming is over."

[Critics quickly pointed out that Chapman may have been "cherry-picking" the data. A strong La Nina formation in the Pacific pushed down January temperatures over much of the Northern Hemisphere from where they had been a year earlier, but average global temperatures are still much higher than the 20th-century average, and the NOAA said last week that last month was the warmest March on record.]

The Bureau of Meteorology says temperatures in Australia have been warmer than the 1960-90 average since the late 1970s, barring a couple of cooler years, and are now 0.3 degrees Centigrade higher than the long-term average.

A sunspot is a region on the sun that is cooler than the rest and appears dark.

An alternative theory of global warming is that a strong solar magnetic field, when there is plenty of sunspot activity, protects the Earth from cosmic rays, cutting cloud formation, but that when the field is weak — during low sunspot activity — the rays can penetrate into the lower atmosphere and cloud cover increases, cooling the surface.

But scientists from the U.S. National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Bolder, Colorado published a report in 2006 that showed the sun had a negligible effect on climate change.

The researchers wrote in the journal Nature that the sun's brightness varied by only 0.07 percent over 11-year sunspot cycles, and that that was far too little to account for the rise in temperatures since the Industrial Revolution.

Chapman proposes preventive, or delaying, moves to slow the cooling, such as bulldozing Siberian and Canadian snow to make it dirty and less reflective.

"My guess is that the odds are now at least 50:50 that we will see significant cooling rather than warming in coming decades," he writes.
=======================================

Sorry To Ruin The Fun, But An Ice Age Cometh
Phil Chapman | April 23, 2008, Geophysicist and astronautical engineer who lives in San Francisco. He was the first Australian to become a NASA astronaut.

THE scariest photo I have seen on the internet is www.spaceweather.com, where you will find a real-time image of the sun from the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, located in deep space at the equilibrium point between solar and terrestrial gravity.

What is scary about the picture is that there is only one tiny sunspot.

Disconcerting as it may be to true believers in global warming, the average temperature on Earth has remained steady or slowly declined during the past decade, despite the continued increase in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, and now the global temperature is falling precipitously.

All four agencies that track Earth's temperature (the Hadley Climate Research Unit in Britain, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, the Christy group at the University of Alabama, and Remote Sensing Systems Inc in California) report that it cooled by about 0.7C in 2007. This is the fastest temperature change in the instrumental record and it puts us back where we were in 1930. If the temperature does not soon recover, we will have to conclude that global warming is over.

There is also plenty of anecdotal evidence that 2007 was exceptionally cold. It snowed in Baghdad for the first time in centuries, the winter in China was simply terrible and the extent of Antarctic sea ice in the austral winter was the greatest on record since James Cook discovered the place in 1770.

It is generally not possible to draw conclusions about climatic trends from events in a single year, so I would normally dismiss this cold snap as transient, pending what happens in the next few years.

This is where SOHO comes in. The sunspot number follows a cycle of somewhat variable length, averaging 11 years. The most recent minimum was in March last year. The new cycle, No.24, was supposed to start soon after that, with a gradual build-up in sunspot numbers.

It didn't happen. The first sunspot appeared in January this year and lasted only two days. A tiny spot appeared last Monday but vanished within 24 hours. Another little spot appeared this Monday. Pray that there will be many more, and soon.

The reason this matters is that there is a close correlation between variations in the sunspot cycle and Earth's climate. The previous time a cycle was delayed like this was in the Dalton Minimum, an especially cold period that lasted several decades from 1790.

Northern winters became ferocious: in particular, the rout of Napoleon's Grand Army during the retreat from Moscow in 1812 was at least partly due to the lack of sunspots.

That the rapid temperature decline in 2007 coincided with the failure of cycle No.24 to begin on schedule is not proof of a causal connection but it is cause for concern.

It is time to put aside the global warming dogma, at least to begin contingency planning about what to do if we are moving into another little ice age, similar to the one that lasted from 1100 to 1850.

There is no doubt that the next little ice age would be much worse than the previous one and much more harmful than anything warming may do. There are many more people now and we have become dependent on a few temperate agricultural areas, especially in the US and Canada. Global warming would increase agricultural output, but global cooling will decrease it.

Millions will starve if we do nothing to prepare for it (such as planning changes in agriculture to compensate), and millions more will die from cold-related diseases.

There is also another possibility, remote but much more serious. The Greenland and Antarctic ice cores and other evidence show that for the past several million years, severe glaciation has almost always afflicted our planet.

The bleak truth is that, under normal conditions, most of North America and Europe are buried under about 1.5km of ice. This bitterly frigid climate is interrupted occasionally by brief warm interglacials, typically lasting less than 10,000 years.

The interglacial we have enjoyed throughout recorded human history, called the Holocene, began 11,000 years ago, so the ice is overdue. We also know that glaciation can occur quickly: the required decline in global temperature is about 12C and it can happen in 20 years.

The next descent into an ice age is inevitable but may not happen for another 1000 years. On the other hand, it must be noted that the cooling in 2007 was even faster than in typical glacial transitions. If it continued for 20 years, the temperature would be 14C cooler in 2027.

By then, most of the advanced nations would have ceased to exist, vanishing under the ice, and the rest of the world would be faced with a catastrophe beyond imagining.

Australia may escape total annihilation but would surely be overrun by millions of refugees. Once the glaciation starts, it will last 1000 centuries, an incomprehensible stretch of time.

If the ice age is coming, there is a small chance that we could prevent or at least delay the transition, if we are prepared to take action soon enough and on a large enough scale.

For example: We could gather all the bulldozers in the world and use them to dirty the snow in Canada and Siberia in the hope of reducing the reflectance so as to absorb more warmth from the sun.

We also may be able to release enormous floods of methane (a potent greenhouse gas) from the hydrates under the Arctic permafrost and on the continental shelves, perhaps using nuclear weapons to destabilize the deposits.

We cannot really know, but my guess is that the odds are at least 50-50 that we will see significant cooling rather than warming in coming decades.

The probability that we are witnessing the onset of a real ice age is much less, perhaps one in 500, but not totally negligible.

All those urging action to curb global warming need to take off the blinkers and give some thought to what we should do if we are facing global cooling instead.

It will be difficult for people to face the truth when their reputations, careers, government grants or hopes for social change depend on global warming, but the fate of civilization may be at stake.

In the famous words of Oliver Cromwell, "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken."

Phil Chapman is a geophysicist and astronautical engineer who lives in San Francisco. He was the first Australian to become a NASA astronaut.

[Ray Newman]

When I went to college in the late 1960’s -- early 1970’s, there were two even bigger crises facing the earth!

At that time all of the “leading scientific mindsâ€

[YellowHorse]

I, for one, would be all for a nice little warm up

Our deserts would shrink, the northern latitudes would be warmer, hence there would be more farmable land and places to live

Core samples from Greenland show that the warm periods in the earth's past also coincide with the best time in our history.
Also it is no coincidence that the "dark ages" coincide with one of the cooling trends.

The earth has had a constant 1500 year warming and cooling cycle. During the "ice ages" it is a very regular 1475 year cycle, but during the "intergacial periods" it will vary between 500 to 2000 years.

I can't make up my mind what's more arrogant: the beliefe that we are causing global warming or the belife that we can control it.

[LeverBob]

I believe we are in an interglacial period that is almost over. The 0.7 celsius decline in global temps suggests that we all better take advantage of the hunts to stock up on hides to keep warm with. Learning cold weather survival & wilderness living just may turn us into Eskimos. They prosper living under extreme conditions, so can we.

I hope that scamming loser Gore winds up with a chicken farm on his face & not just the rotten eggs he so richly deserves.

LeverBob

[JimT]

Thank you Hobie -- and the others as well.

If people would get half as worked up about the things in their lives that they can change, their lives would be much different.

[oldmax]

[Hobie]

Thank you Hobie -- and the others as well.

If people would get half as worked up about the things in their lives that they can change, their lives would be much different.

I strive for perfection in that regard but sometimes I fail pitifully. I was quite fortunate in that my wife and I seem to be in-sync such that she is struck by commonsense when I am not and vice-versa.

[big bear]

Well, just got home and thoughtI'd stick my head up from behind my big rock. You guys I do believe are missing my point. I don't know much about Mr. Gore and don't give much of a hoot about what he says, he's not my idea of a deep thinker. Deep thinkers ,in general ,don't go far in politics( there are a few exceptions, but that's another argument,er, I mean discussion ). I am just expressing my concerns about what drastic changes I have seen in a very brief (geologically speaking) time...the period from my youth to middle age. I cannot expound on catastrophe theory, but I suspect that in a relatively closed system like the earth, that the shenanigans of our species just might be able to put things way out of whack and push things over the brink. My angst is more for my children and the generations to follow than for us old coots. I hunt and to those of you who hunt I think you'll know what I mean when I say I'm getting a "feeling", a bad feeling. Sometimes you can just "feel" something when you travel through the bush and then things fall into or out of place and that's the magic of hunting . I have that feeling of late about this place we are in now. Solutions? Don't know, maybe the closed system will fix itself. The uncontrolled smart monkeys may sustain a major die off (increased rates of skin cancers, untreatable infectious diseases, and the spread of tropical diseases into our temperate climates are things I know for a fact, because that's the world I work in all day and have done so for 20years now),or a world leader out to prove a point will set the dominoes to falling, and the ship will right itself. Gas is almost $4.00 a gallon here, anybody know about those new fangled hybrids ?

[Mokwaw]

Y'll can quit worrying about "Global Warming", according to an article I read on "Fox News" the KILLER ASTROID is predicted to hit earth either in 2029 or 2036 depending on what percent their calculations are off, so get right with GOD, enjoy life, and don't worry about what you can't change.

[Jeeps]

Only one problem I can see, over 6 Billion humans crammed on one earth.

Egypt used to be verdant farm land.

The highest peak in the world used to be on the bottom of the ocean.

No worries, it will sort itself out in the end.

[Hobie]

One-half the hybrids don't get better mileage than anything else... Another scam.

I think we rather do understand your post. I think we rather do understand how much people can affect climate. I think we rather do think of our grand-children rather than ourselves.

[horsesoldier03]

I thought the BIG ICE STORM we had this year was a result of AL GORE solving the Global Warming Issue!

[AJMD429]

According to this, global warming has already killed thousands - the only problem is, the timing here suggests we might not have caused it via human activities...what do you think?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1

So, maybe we CAN cause/stop climate changes and maybe (most likely) we can't. Nuclear war might mess with climate for awhile, so I'm open to the concept. However, the fact remains that climates CHANGE whether we like it or not, and politicizing it just to make money and grab power like the Democrats have done is inexcusable.

Seriously, the Al Gore's of the world make me embarassed to admit that I'm an 'environmentalist' - at least in the sense that I feel an obligation to serve as steward of the land I live on, and protect habitat and species diversity - THAT is what planting 'deer plot mix' and 'wildlife cover' is. I still don't want to be associated with the hypocrites the media puts up as shining examples of 'environmentalists,' though!

[KirkD]

Be a good steward where you can.
We all have to die sometime.
Prepare to meet God.
Enjoy the ride.

[JimT]

Only one problem I can see, over 6 Billion humans crammed on one earth.
.

Hardly Crammed.

If you figured 7 billion people
and while it's impossible but for the sake of figuring had each stand on 3 square feet of ground

You could get the entire population of the earth inside the State of Rhode Island with room left over.

"crammed" is the wrong word... there are places in New Mexico where you could hide the city of Los Angeles and it would take you a week to find it.

You need to get out more ...

I would leave that religion of earth worship also .... but that's me.
(edit - just kidding jeeps ... don't shoot!)

[BenT]

Big Bear it sucks to see your hunting landscape change for whatever reason. I'm sure you wish your kids could share the same hunting experiences that you did. Hunting has changed also, my kids won't share the same hunting experiences that I did. Used to have every Uncle show up for deer season , quite the hunting ritual. My brothers don't hunt so thats that.

I live in Wisconsin and we've had the coldest snowiest winter in about 15 years. In fact snow is predicted for tonight. I also believe Europe has also had one of the coldest winters on recorded.

I remember talking to my grandfather about the weather during the depression. The earth is never a constant. It's always changing. We can't predict the weather ,let alone control the climate.

I firm believer of being a steward of the land. I beleive in controling pollution. I wish these global warming yahoo's would spend their efforts on controlable things , like mercury pollution. This is something that is in our control . Global warming is bigger than man. Is Al Gore going to go around and take everyones car keys away. Good luck with that.

Thanks for sharing your obeservations of the damage to the forest around you I find it interesting. Is this pine beetle a native species ?

[JimT]

Ben . the west has had on-going problems with pine beetles .. forever. Fires or warm weather help their life-cycle so they are more destructive than ever. I remember problems with them in Arizona in the 70's .. it's nothing new ...

There is a lot of stuff on the 'net about them .. two quick references ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Pine_Beetle

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05528.html

(edit - another reference - http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/fidls ... le/wpb.htm)

[big bear]

I believe it is native. Never epidemic in past because early winterdeep cold would kill off most of beetles. A long period of warm winters plus large stands of mature lodgepolepines have led to current disaster. (Forest fire control/prevention) contributed to large stands of mature trees.

[El Mac]

Be a good steward where you can.
We all have to die sometime.
Prepare to meet God.
Enjoy the ride.

Short, sweet and to the point.

[Ron Macy]

I like to consider myself a responsible environmentalist in my everyday life. The movement has gone so radical and short sighted that I don't make that claim in public much.

This pine bark beetle is an example of short sighted environmentalism and the all or nothing approach. All three of the example articles referred to, mentioned overcrowding and too much old growth timber being a large factor in spreading the infestation, on boom or bust type cycles. Our system of "if it's old you can't ever touch it even after it's dead" approach helps destroy entire forests. Thinning might save a large number of the remaining trees besides putting the harvested trees to the use of mankind. Instead, we won't even allow removal of dead trees from disease or fires to utilize the usable lumber. We lose the forest and we lose the use of the trees to boot.

We know that over harvesting harmed the system. We know that under harvesting harms the system. In that respect I think (only my opinion) environmentalists have harmed the ecology nearly as much as those who overused it without receiving any benefit.

When my kids were growing up I was blessed to have the best earnings period of my life. We used to go on vacations and always bought a native to the area tree for each of the kids to plant, in an area which seemed likely to support it. When I lived in Roswell, I bought 10# of buffalo grass seed which used to be native to the area, and after breaking through the hardpan spread a handful of seeds in hope they might flourish with the next rain. I don't know if those efforts were successful but I made a larger attempt than 99% of the armchair environmentalists ever dreamt of doing.

I'd like to see us all try to think things through to a workable solution instead of an all or nothing approach.

[mescalero1]

Big Bear,
When the coyote died, I went through a period of introspection.
That " feeling" came over me, and it has not left me yet.
There IS something in the air, and I can not put my finger on it.

[nemhed]

I would like to reiterate what KirkD said, we all need to be good stewards of everything we're given. We do have an impact on our environment even if it's just locally (i.e. dumping oil down a drain, and throwing trash in the ditch). Humans may or may not be the cause of global warming, heck current global warming may just be a temporary blip in the grand scheme of things. Things like recycling and reducing pollution just makes sense to me and are not political in nature.

[Kismet]

I would like to reiterate what KirkD said, we all need to be good stewards of everything we're given. We do have an impact on our environment even if it's just locally (i.e. dumping oil down a drain, and throwing trash in the ditch). Humans may or may not be the cause of global warming, heck current global warming may just be a temporary blip in the grand scheme of things. Things like recycling and reducing pollution just makes sense to me and are not political in nature.

+1

I have never quite understood why this is such a political issue. I personally think the idea that we don't affect the environment (likely to include the weather) is absurd. Even if we are a minor contributor, the idea that something so complex is completely unaffected by us just makes no sense to me. Especially when there are a myriad of environmental effects we have caused that are measurable. Whether you type it in bold or all caps, saying that "we humans can't possibly have an impact on the climate" doesn't make it true.

Thus, whether I do it to be a good steward, because I think we humans are too big for our environmental britches, or because God himself told me to, I think trying to limit my impact is simply the right way to live. Doesn't mean I am always going to do it or that I couldn't live a simpler life, but it is going to be something I consider in the decisions I make.

Michael in NH

p.s. The fact that most hybrids don't get better mileage than average is really irrelevant. If an F-350 getting 10 miles a gallon adds an electric engine and now gets 15 miles a gallon, you have likely saved more gas per year than most cars use in an entire year.

[Noah Zark]

. . . I suspect that in a relatively closed system like the earth, that the shenanigans of our species just might be able to put things way out of whack and push things over the brink. My angst is more for my children and the generations to follow than for us old coots.

I'd be among the last to underestimate man's capacity to fu . . ah, screw up the planet because we've a proven track record in that regard. However, when I was much younger the Cuyahoga River caught fire in Cleveland and Lake Erie was DEAD. Today, Lake Erie is prime walleye fishing. The planet has demonstrated a remarkable ability to bounce back from man's earlier mistake. However, I just don't think that it's as closed a system as it appears. Again, 99.99% of the energy on the planet comes from the sun.

I do share your concern for the ship not being able to right itself, but IMO the cause will be politically or economically motivated, not environmental. Sure, political or economic blunders MAY cause an envronmental megadisaster (nuclear winter comes to mind, or a super plague pandemic), but the enviroment will be the effect, not the cause.

Gas is almost $4.00 a gallon here, anybody know about those new fangled hybrids ?

The difference in fuel economy between a standard 4 cyl Honda Civic and a Civic Hybrid does not justify the multi-$ thousand price premium. Get the standard Civic or an equally economical compact. My daughter drives a 2001 Toyota Solara 4 cyl coupe and gets 32 MPG. It's not worth trading to get a 38 mpg car just for the difference in mileage until here Solara dies. And at 64,000 miles, it's still a youngster.

Noah

[hfcable]

we have about 14" of fresh cold, white global warming in our driveway that fell today, never seen this ihappen this late in my 24 years here......yes, maybe we do need to worry about climate CHANGE but not of the warm variety, and likly not anything to do with anything the human animal does.

[sgtgrinche]

the reason for too much domestic livestock is there is not enough people eating beef

[Ray Newman]

Noah Zark: do you remember Love Canal?

http://www.epa.gov/history/topics/lovecanal/01.htm

[Leverdude]

While I think its silly to say we arent having any impact I think its silly to say we know exactly what that impact is. The scientists dont know & go in circles on the matter. I do think theres too many of us tho. Cant see how it matters if we could all fit in Rhode Island. The important & meaningful part is our environment cant support our numbers. Big cities exist at the expense of places we love & at the same time we're living high on the hog other folks are starving. But the world will fix that up at some point.

I do agree we ought to worry about things we can change. If carbon emisions are to blame its about over now anyway. I reckon we'll run out of oil before we turn the world into a dessert, or ice burg.

[oldmax]

When The Rich and Famous ( Al Gore included )
Give up there Private Jets, Big Houses ( Plural ) , Yachts, etc....

THAN CALL ME, THAN I will consider doing my part...

Untill than , Leave me the Hell alone....


IT'S ABOUT CONTROL> CONTROL OF THE PEOPLE.

IT"S ABOUT THEM, !!!!!!! NOT THE EARTH....

OK, Sorry, Lets do our part, Only 1 trip to the firing range a year,
and you need to schedule it with Al Gore ( IE, Buy a carbon credit )


Carbon Credit, You gotta be kidding !!!!
IT"S A SCAM, Are there REALLY people That stupid...
Geee's I shouldn't have asked that question . I already know the answer...

[Grizz]

I do think theres too many of us tho. Cant see how it matters if we could all fit in Rhode Island.

So, what are you willing to do about it?

I believe God meant what He said when He gave the instruction to be fruitful and multiply. I'm good with it because it's God's will. The earth isn't overpopulated, it's over-regulated by do-gooders who think they know what's best...... like there's even one of them I'd care to follow....

Grizz

[Kismet]

I do think theres too many of us tho. Cant see how it matters if we could all fit in Rhode Island.

So, what are you willing to do about it?

I believe God meant what He said when He gave the instruction to be fruitful and multiply. I'm good with it because it's God's will. The earth isn't overpopulated, it's over-regulated by do-gooders who think they know what's best...... like there's even one of them I'd care to follow....

Grizz

I'm sure he also said something about taking good care of the Earth. If you are equally good with that command then I'm sure you recognize there must be some actual thought applied to the process rather than simply blindly following one line from the bible. Taking care of the Earth is something we generally are not too good at (example) - a point that may or may not be entirely unrelated to whether we are changing the weather!

Michael in NH

[Hobie]

I note that those who say there's too many of us humans aren't too quick to volunteer to be among those thinned out... Seems to me to be a moot point and something else to which to adapt.

[El Chivo]

the worst part about a new ice age is the global warming fanatics will take credit for bringing it about, and demand even more control so we can "stay the course".

[BAGTIC]

Only one problem I can see, over 6 Billion humans crammed on one earth.
.

Hardly Crammed.

If you figured 7 billion people
and while it's impossible but for the sake of figuring had each stand on 3 square feet of ground

You could get the entire population of the earth inside the State of Rhode Island with room left over.

"crammed" is the wrong word... there are places in New Mexico where you could hide the city of Los Angeles and it would take you a week to find it.

You need to get out more ...

I would leave that religion of earth worship also .... but that's me.
(edit - just kidding jeeps ... don't shoot!)

It doesn't matter how many square feet they need to stand up. Personally I prefer to sleep lying down, preferarably not on top of the privy. What matter is how many resources it takes to sustanin us at acceptable levels. Personally I feel the world would be better off with at least 50% population reduction, 75% would be even better.