Is there any real reason to load maximum loads in a .44 mag

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:51 am

Last weekend, I took my rossi carbine to the range with a box of cowboy action level .44 spcls and had a blast tearing up some old fruit I found at the back of my fridge. Now, this gun goes from being a lot of fun to a miserable tooth rattler with full power level factory magnum loads.

What i'm wondering about is this: If a 240 grain JHP is considered an adequate deer round at a handgun velocities (1100 to 1300 fps) why not load some that give the same velocity from a carbine? I could have deer killing power within the guns intended range, but my shoulder will like me more. Plus, I'll burn less powder per round.

Are there any flaws in my reasoning? Something I'm failing to consider?

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:55 am

The .44-40 is a proven round. No reason it wouldn't do a bit better with a slightly heavier bullet.

I'm not one that finds the .44 Mag a "tooth rattler" but that's just me and I'm not the only hunter in the forest. If it works for you, well, that's what really matters.

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:57 am

The higher velocities one gets from the higher pressures allow you to stretch out the distance a little bit, and, of course, there is a certain loss of machismo, as it were.

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:59 am

Hobie wrote:The .44-40 is a proven round. No reason it wouldn't do a bit better with a slightly heavier bullet.

I'm not one that finds the .44 Mag a "tooth rattler" but that's just me and I'm not the only hunter in the forest. If it works for you, well, that's what really matters.

I find it to be a bit uncomfortable in the light rossi carbine. I think it has more to do with all the vibrations that the higher velocity rounds create than the actual recoil force.

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:10 am

Jayhawker wrote: and, of course, there is a certain loss of machismo, as it were.

But what's more impressive, the man who can get close enough to a deer to kill it with a low velocity round, or a man who can grit his teeth endure a lot of recoil, and every now and then hit what he's shooting at?

I hunt and shoot for fun. It stops being fun for me when it starts hurting.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:28 am

Jason_W, are you doing most of your shooting off a bench?
My .44 mag trapper kicks like a mule of the bench with full power loads, but is a enjoyable carbine shooting freehand/hunting positions.

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:31 am

salvo wrote:Jason_W, are you doing most of your shooting off a bench?
My .44 mag trapper kicks like a mule of the bench with full power loads, but is a enjoyable carbine shooting freehand/hunting positions.

I don't shoot this particular rifle from the bench.

Maybe I'm just being a sally about it

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:41 am

EVERYBODY has a different tolerance level. Add to that the difference in each stock design and each person's body shape and you get different peceptions. I load my 92 .45 Colt ABOVE .44 Mag levels and it seems a mild recoiling gun to me. That's not to say that I don't have to adapt sometimes. When I first got my .45-70 barrel for my Contender carbine I was in shock. The barrel on that 5-3/4 lb carbine would be pointed straight up in the air after every shot! One day I went out and was plinking with the gun and had a blast. After about 60 rounds I suddenly discovered I was out of ammo, lots of fun.

Long way 'round to say that you should shoot what's comfortable. The more you shoot the less you'll care about the recoil.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:47 am

Well, I load just about max for the 44mag with a 240gr JSP. They run about 1700fps out of the Marlin 1894 and 1650fps out of my Trapper.

That gives me 3" hi @ 75yds and 3.5" low @ 150yds. Almost a dead hold on out to 150yds

Recoil doesn't bother me at all for the first 30-40 rds. But then again, I never shoot more than I need to for sighting in. And, I don't plink with that load either, that's what my 357mag Trapper is for.

Is that kind of power necessary? Maybe not.

Do I love it? Definitely.

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:42 am

No, you don't need to load it to the max. It will flatten your trajectory a bit, but you will be amazed at how little. Energy figures will be up some, but a deer or hog won't know the difference.

Settle on a load that is within your tolerance level and shoot the heck out of it. You will shoot better and that will make more difference than a few hundred feet per second.

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:48 am

ScottT wrote:No, you don't need to load it to the max. It will flatten your trajectory a bit, but you will be amazed at how little. Energy figures will be up some, but a deer or hog won't know the difference.

Settle on a load that is within your tolerance level and shoot the heck out of it. You will shoot better and that will make more difference than a few hundred feet per second.

I might actually go with a heavier bullet.

I have some handloads that consist of a 310 grain cast bullet at I'm guessing) 1400 fps or under MV. That load doesn't bother me at all, but I find the Sellier and Bellot 240 grain JSP round to be unpleasant.

With recoil, it's never been so much about how much recoil energy, but how fast that energy is delivered to my shoulder.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:06 pm

Jason

nothing at all wrong with your thinking. I don't care for hollow points for making meat. just saying...

but a subsonic load from your gun will kill deer just fine, if it's the right bullet in the right place. just saying...

let us know how it works out. I've been down-loading for years and so far I haven't found a 44 cal bullet velocity slow enough to bounce off of a deer.

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:22 pm

Here is a thought. I shot this deer two years ago at about 65 yds with my single action .44 spl. A 250gr Keith bullet over 7.5 gr of Unique. I doubt that the load was going over 900 fps and he dropped in his tracks. You can do much better with a carbine.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:30 pm

Jason,
Don't worry about what other folks think. That will get you hurt in some instances. I don't feel the need for anything much over 1100 FPS in my .44's. Even at 1100 FPS my cast bullets always go all the way through. How many more FPS do I need. I'm shooting a Lee cast that is simalar to their 430-310 without the shank for the gascheck. It ends up at around 260 grains.

Go to www.montanabulletworks.com and you'll see one that is about identical to the one I have.

If I were going to the dark continent or after old grizz here on this continent I might go for something more maximum but for everyday stuff, it's all I need.
No need to beat up you or the gun.

Had to come back and edit... nice shootin Scott.

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:30 pm

ScottT wrote:Here is a thought. I shot this deer two years ago at about 65 yds with my single action .44 spl. A 250gr Keith bullet over 7.5 gr of Unique. I doubt that the load was going over 900 fps and he dropped in his tracks. You can do much better with a carbine.

Awesome shootin'

65 yards with a handgun

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:02 pm

I didn't read thru all the replies, so forgive mr if I repeat someone else's response. IF you select a bullet designed for those velocities, there's no reason for it not to work. Far worse tho' to use a 1000fps designed bullet and expect it hold up @ 1700fps or so that a full-house .44Mag can attain outta a carbine.

t.r. · Post by **t.r.** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:39 pm

Hornady's XTP bullet tears a wide wound channel. This equates into real world massive hemoraging and quick death.

Whether impact velocity is high, low, or somewhere in the middle is largely irrelevant when we're discussing tissue damage. Your'e right, revolver velocity is deadly but carbine velocity is not deadlier; it just gives the hunter a little extra distance.

I have more experience with the (.430) 200 grain hollow tip by Hornady which was their standby for many years before the debute of XTP bullet. This bullet lacks impressive ballistic profile but it opens up to approx. 75 caliber and kills deer quite dead indeed.

240 grain semi-wadcutter in 44 Special has zero recoil but kills small game such as porcupines and racoons quite nicely.

Good hunting to you.
TR

Jeff Pitts · Post by **Jeff Pitts** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:01 pm

t.r. wrote:240 grain semi-wadcutter in 44 Special has zero recoil but kills small game such as porcupines and racoons quite nicely.

And out of my Marlin rifle using the same load as ScottT killed his buck with has taken more than just a few bucks for me! A 250 SWC with 7 1/2grs Unique in a 44 Special case probably leaves my rifle barrel at 1100 or so and I've never recovered one, EVER, no matter what bones are broken.

The same load out of my Ruger Flattops kills deer great also

Jeff

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:57 pm

Jason_W wrote:
salvo wrote:Jason_W, are you doing most of your shooting off a bench?
My .44 mag trapper kicks like a mule of the bench with full power loads, but is a enjoyable carbine shooting freehand/hunting positions.
I don't shoot this particular rifle from the bench.

Maybe I'm just being a sally about it

Nah, I used to have a Winchester trapper & it would beat the snot out of me. I think its ergonomics to a degree but the lightness of the gun had to be a factor.

Now I have 2, a 336 & a 1894 Marlin & neither hurts a bit.
All I can figure is weight coupled with how they fit my frame.

Its very true in my experience that things hurt more from a bench than from a standing or any freehand position, save maybe prone.

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:01 pm

#1 benefit of increased velocity is better trajectory. Ft-lbs of energy -- unless you're going up against really big brutes -- is strictly secondary.

Now, my little Rossi Trapper .45 is, for me, strictly a short-range affair. I'm not ever going to put a scope on it or, likely, even a receiver sight. The biggest thing I'm likely to shoot at with it is a whitetail deer, and he's going to be inside 100 yards. For me to jack up my loads to maximum levels would gain me little or nothing but pain and expenditure of more powder. Were I to move to Alaska and depend on it for close-range big bear protection, I'd probably change my mind but until then I am good to go with a 255 gr. SWC at about 1150 fps.

Mokwaw · Post by **Mokwaw** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:21 pm

Jason...if you enjoyed your session with .44 spl loads, just load your mags to the same power level and have fun. Like you I shoot for fun, when it begins to hurt it's no longer fun.

HEAD0001 · Post by **HEAD0001** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:24 pm

I bought a S&W Titanium 44 magnum. Full loads were a bit much-so I cast a 240 Lyman bullet and poured in a little 2400 to get a load that shot 850 fps. This load is no problem to shoot at all. I shot a couple of does with the load at 40 yards. I am not sure how much less "DEAD" they were bec ause they were not shot with a hot load. But they died none the less.

I started shooting this load in my 44 magnum rifles. They are a joy to shoot in the rifle. Not much recoil at all. I am not sure what the velocity is, but it is probably close to 1,000 fps. I have not shot any deer with the rifle and these loads, but I am sure they will work just fine. Tom.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:51 am

Jason, now matter how hot you load it, if you get a deer in your sights, I can guarantee you won't feel the shot.

Having said that, I think you should load for accuracy with that powder, bullet, and gun. Try different loads 1/2 grain apart and pick the best group. It will probably be well under the maximum.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:33 am

The only rifles I own that "rattle my teeth" are my Browning B92 and Ruger 96/44, both in 44 Mag, using factory loads. I load down 44 Mag to just highher than 44 Spl factory, and I warm up my 44 Spls to the same performance level as the momemade 44 Mags. No matter what I shoot, the POI is the same and no more emergency visits to the dentist.

Noah

piller · Post by **piller** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:39 pm

My older brother has a Puma in .44 Mag. and he thought the curved metal butt hurt. He used some wood strips, glue, and a Dremel to build a piece which filled in the hollow. After it was flat he put a slip on recoil pad on it and that baby was tamed. Based on his experience, it could be the stock doesn't fit you and allows the felt recoil to be worse than normal. Try building up the stock with PVC spacers or something to see if it is too short for you. Try putting a different recoil pad on it. There should be something that will tame your rifle.

Savage99 · Post by **Savage99** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:26 pm

The .44spl and the .44mag are both fine cartridges..I reload both for my pistols and rifles. I usually plink and target practice with the specials. and use the magnums for hunting and self defense..i do the same thing for my .357mag puma, .38spl for cans and mags for fur..I like my boom stick to go boom and not pop..

BTW I have alignment marks on my rear sights so I can make quick adjustments between specials and magnums..simply line up the marks and shoot

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:05 pm

I know my Browning B92 in 44 wasn't that much fun to shoot with top loads, but my Marlin is a pussycat. I think the shotgun style butt on the Marlin makes a lot of difference.

Is there any real reason to load maximum loads in a .44 mag

Is there any real reason to load maximum loads in a .44 mag

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