Would you buy them?

[handirifle]

Thinking about where this 375 all copper bullet idea is going, I got to thinking about what they would cost to sell. Even at $60 for 50, currently I would not be making money, but maybe breaking even.

It takes a lot of work, per bullet, the current way I'm doing it. I'm going to look into having a CNC run them, but all that has to be factored into a profit, if this were to survive.

The only other alternative is to make them and charge a fee, for customer supplied bullets. This new law really sucks for levergunners in CA.

I realize I still need to post data on expansion, results on game, etc, but if all goes as I expect, would you guys in CA pay $60 for a box of 50 of these?

I know it's high, but I have to be realistic to myself. Of course economy of scale would hopefully lower it.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have no need at this time, Thanks! Sounds like a large outlay of bux would be needed to get a venture like that going. Mail order may be the only outlet that wont brake the bank.

[bsaride]

The only other alternative is to make them and charge a fee, for customer supplied bullets. This new law really sucks for levergunners in CA.

My brother has a cnc shop and could work with you on them, i can provide drawings if you need them.

I realize I still need to post data on expansion, results on game, etc, but if all goes as I expect, would you guys in CA pay $60 for a box of 50 of these?

I bought 30-30 Barnes TSX bullets and price with shipping was $48.


Jay

[Old Savage]

I would buy a box but mainly because I know you and your project.

[El Chivo]

Yes I would buy them if I had a 375. That's not too much. Why not offer them as loaded ammo and charge three bucks a round? Other companies do.

I think I'll use the 30-30 this year, after all, I got the gun just for the lead ban.

I'm thinking about what to do with my 35 Rem, I may turn it into a silhouette rifle and shoot cast through it. If I hunt with it again I'll just load two. But I may not bother to develop a copper load for it.

What if you sold the bullets to Conley Precision Ammo, and let them load them up in commercial ammo? (they use mostly Barnes Bullets). So, market it that way. Also, get Barnes to sell them to you wholesale, so you're paying what Midway pays.

Could be cool, people will buy your ammo to take to Africa for the hunt of a lifetime, your bullets could be taking Cape Buffalo and elephants. It's my understanding the 375 is THE cartridge in Africa.

[handirifle]

Thanks for the honesty. These answers are pretty much what I expected.

bsaride,
thanks, I'll be in touch with you on these. I'd like to see if having a "run" of them done by machine could lower the cost enough. With a CNC I may be able to get by with buying copper rods instead of the TSX's, at least I'd hope.

As for the 30-30 cost, you're right, and I wonder how many will just use another gun, with cheaper (but it's still not cheap) TSX ammo.

chuck,
I wish I didn't either, but the CA lead ban law either dictates I do this or it' becomes a paper only rifle or worse, a safe queen.

sobenk
many of the ideas you mention, I was discussing with my wife last night. I have't done ALL the research yet on making ammo, but it might be a bigger hurdle than it's worth, with the liability issues. One other big issue might be storage, since It's my understanding the powder must be stored seperately (in another building). So hurdles, I'll have to look into. We did discuss the idea of providing for another loader, so that will be looked into as well, IF it can be made cost effective.


old savage,
Thanks but you and I both know that wouldn't support a venture for long.


Worst case scenario, people send me their bullets, and I convert them for CA use. Either way will be fine, I'll just be helpn out fellow levergunners.

In the above scenario, I'd just receive a box of 50 and send out a box of 40, keep the other 10 for pmt. Reasonable, I think.

My first preference is loaded ammo, so we'll see what we see.

If CNC make a difference, I'd imagine I could sell the ammo at about 60-70. Right now, I'm guessing.

[Old Ironsights]

How are you making them? IMO it would be not terribly expensive to turn Solids out on a CNC Screw Machine... just feed it raw stock (coils of Copper/Brass Rod) and let it spit out bullets.

I've seen these things work and they are danged fast with super tolerances...

[Old Savage]

Making bullets for the 375 is not likely a profitable venture but any owner in Calif might buy a box if they knew they worked well so that it could be used for hunting. This is what folks are doing with the "Condor Ammo". That is what I would be interested in. I trust that you are diligent enough to expect they would. I will help you test in the Marlin if you like.

[handirifle]

Ironsights
If you read the thread viewtopic.php?t=5008&start=0&postdays=0 ... highlight=
You can see from start to present. Too long to go over in a new thread, but they are NOT solids, they are functioning hollow points, one version is even a boattail.

Not sure solids are legal to hunt with in CA, they didn't used to be but haven't seen the new wording just yet.

old savage
If you have a hunt planned anytime soon, let me know, I can accomodate.

[Rusty]

How about casting a non lead bullet?

[handirifle]

How about casting a non lead bullet?

Looking into lead alternatives, but most come nowhere near the density of lead, and some are lighter than copper. Maleability (sp?) is a big concern as well, if they cast too brittle, they're useless.

For all it's faults, lead is hard to beat for bullets.

[Comal Forge]

You need an old Acme or Davenport multispindle - both of which are going for only 3-5 thousand these days. They are cam driven but once tooled, you could turn out thousands of bullets in short order (they made both .30 and .50 cal steel bullets in WW2). I'd bet you could run 5-7 sec cycle times so around 500 an hour is a good estimate; $150 per hour shop rate and you make $30 per C. CNC is not required for simple designs like bullets.

[mikld]

I think a screw machine may be cheaper to run. A multi spindle machine (Davenport, Acme-Gridley) or a single spindle machine (Brown & Sharp) doesn't require a highly trained operator as a CNC macnine would. Machining a round object like a bullet would be really simple on one of these machines and they could spit them out by the thousands.

[Old Ironsights]

I think a screw machine may be cheaper to run. A multi spindle machine (Davenport, Acme-Gridley) or a single spindle machine (Brown & Sharp) doesn't require a highly trained operator as a CNC macnine would. Machining a round object like a bullet would be really simple on one of these machines and they could spit them out by the thousands.

I don't know the brands, but That's my opinion too.

The Fastener Manufacturer I did some contract work for in Spokane had these really neat machines that would make those funky little brass standoffs you see in PC motherboards.

You would feed the machine a coil of Hex Brass and it would D&T the interior threads then turn the exterior threads, cut off and begin again... all in fractions of a minute.

If all you did after that were to cross cut the nose a'la the old Rem Copper Solid Slugs, you would still have a pretty intense bullet...

[handirifle]

You need an old Acme or Davenport multispindle - both of which are going for only 3-5 thousand these days. They are cam driven but once tooled, you could turn out thousands of bullets in short order (they made both .30 and .50 cal steel bullets in WW2). I'd bet you could run 5-7 sec cycle times so around 500 an hour is a good estimate; $150 per hour shop rate and you make $30 per C. CNC is not required for simple designs like bullets.

These sound like an easier approach, but I know nothing about them.

I'm also checking on non lead casting alternatives, tungsten powder for one. Will update when i know more.